Members TML Posted June 8, 2016 Members Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) I'm new to the forums and am considering taking up drums but wanted to ask for some info. I currently play guitar (just a bedroom player) but have developed really bad arthritis which is severely limiting my ability to play. It looks like I might have to quit playing altogether but would still like to make music so am considering taking up the drums. But before I do that I wanted to ask - how hard is drumming on the hands? The arthritis is in my fingers and, just thinking about it, I think drumming might be OK because my fingers won't be required to move like they do playing guitar...I can basically just make fists to hold the sticks (I know that the grip isn't exactly a fist, but it is close enough for discussion purposes). Does this seem reasonable or am I out to lunch here? Is there any other advice anyone can give about playing drums with arthritic fingers? I don't want to give up music entirely and cannot think of another instrument to play. Also, if I do take up drums how effective are the dampeners that can be put on drums and cymbals? Do they deaden the noise enough that you can practice when other people are home without disturbing them or do they just diminish the sound a bit? Sorry if these questions are dumb, but I know nothing about drumming and want to get info before I sell off my guitars and buy a kit. Edited June 27, 2016 by TML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rayboomboom Posted June 8, 2016 Members Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi TML and welcome. First off sorry to hear about the arthritis. Have you looked into acupuncture or other alternatives? As far as getting started, you might want to check a local music store or find a private instructor to show you some things to get you started. That way you have an idea whether drumming is for you. There's a lot of options for playing quietly. One is an electronic kit and head phones. There are drum and cymbal mutes that you place on top of them made of something like neoprene. There are also mesh heads that you install instead of regular drum heads. And there are now cymbals made specifically for quite playing. So you have options. But before you buy anything I'd talk to and try a few lessons to see what is going to work for you. You might even talk to several instructors and find one that can accommodate your condition. Good luck and check back with us to let us know how it's going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted June 8, 2016 Members Share Posted June 8, 2016 You'll have to consult with doctors. Warming up your hands under some prescribed physical therapy would be in order. Drumming knowledge (the doctor's) may or may not help. FI common wisdom is to use the fingers {or you'll hurt yourself) lol. FWIW, too many drummers play in the traditional manner just to look effortless and cool. Fact is music doesn't GAF. Rock drummers FI need the leverage and timing of full arm strokes. These guys used to get laughed at by the old school. If you're medically fit to hold sticks, there is a universe of rhythm that won't require any blazing stickwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted June 8, 2016 Members Share Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) have you ever sat behind a set of drums? Edited June 8, 2016 by Voltan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted June 8, 2016 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2016 have you ever sat behind a set of drums? A set? No. But I did play drums in music class back in high school (a million years ago). Back then you started on the snare so I played that. You only progressed to more drums in subsequent semesters but I dropped music after taking the class in which I played snare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dendy Jarrett Posted June 9, 2016 Members Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) TML - Welcome! May I suggest you do a few things - First, I am not a doctor so check with them first before you do anything. The thing you would need to consider is how advanced is your arthritis? Is it reformative or crippling in any way? As I've grown older (now 53) I get joint (wrist, knuckle and elbow) pain when and while playing. I usually combat this with a tylenol before playing and after playing, I use something from Aveda (the hair care line) called Active Oil. Think of it as an all natural bengay. You may want to research the Moeller technique as well. Using all fist and arm can lead to carpal tunnel syndrome (I have a friend going through this now, and he can no longer grip a stick it has gotten so bad). But lastly, I'll say this: Where there's a will, there's a way! [video=youtube;fiwSlbdpk5w] We are here for you and your questions. Remember: there are no stupid questions. We are also pulling for you! Keep us posted. D Edited June 9, 2016 by Dendy Jarrett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted June 9, 2016 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) Thanks. The arthritis is degenerative. It is rheumatoid arthritis. There is a bad family history of it (both osteo and rheumatoid). My doctor has recommended that I use tumeric (he does) so I need to buy some of that. At the moment I am going to learn slide guitar as that will make it easier on my left hand. If my right hand can handle picking using just the first finger, or the first and middle finger, I should be OK. But if I can't handle even that I will rent a drum kit for a week and bash around to see how my hands feel without having to actually buy a kit. Another option is to sell one of my guitars (I would get more money for my Les Paul but would prefer to keep that one) and buy a kit after having rented one as mentioned above. That way I could learn drums while also continuing to play slide. If my right hand got bad enough I could sell the LP later on and, if I was doing well at drumming, use the money to buy a better kit. I will read up on the Moeller technique now. Thanks for mentioning it. Edited June 9, 2016 by TML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted June 10, 2016 Members Share Posted June 10, 2016 Moeller is a step in the right direction but for the arthritis issue. While it addresses the need for compound strokes, it does require a fair amount of calibrated whipping of the wrist and finger contraction. If you are fit to take up sticking, I recommend you hold the sticks naturally on the last 4, 5 inches of the butt end like you'd hold a screwdriver except looser. Then work on the following compound stroke: This drill will consist of alternating up strokes and down strokes. Go slowly. 10 or twenty taps a minute is plenty. 1.) Point the stick downward and let it rest on the playing surface. You'll notice your forearm has probably risen to compensate. This is the desired effect. Now lift at the wrist and tap the surface in this position. This is the first stroke. Get familiar with it. 2.) From the rest position of step one, drop the forearm while tapping the surface a second time. This completes the first cycle. 3.)To continue, simply raise the forearm while lowering the tip of the stick onto the surface; tap... You can see there is a circular conservation of energy going on. 4.) The Hard Part: Both up and down strokes should be played with metric precision and with equal dynamics and no spurious accents. Simple and effective. It's not taught because it takes a fair amount of subtle practice and the traditional ways are easier to sell. It's like double picking with a stick. The thing I like about this kind of articulation is there's no slop involved as you would get with bouncing sticks. You wouldn't bounce your pick would you? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted June 10, 2016 Members Share Posted June 10, 2016 A set? No. But I did play drums in music class back in high school (a million years ago). Back then you started on the snare so I played that. You only progressed to more drums in subsequent semesters but I dropped music after taking the class in which I played snare. cool, so you know the basics... playing a kit takes some limb separation/ independence... kinda like rubbing your belly and patting your head at the same time... no real biggie, just takes some longer than others like anything else in life... a factor to consider is which joints are affected... getting behind a kit for a few days or even better, a few weeks is going to tell you a lot more than any of us... and keep playing that guitar ( as well as adding slide) too! just more tools in your workshop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Drummer44 Posted June 10, 2016 Members Share Posted June 10, 2016 But if I can't handle even that I will rent a drum kit for a week and bash around to see how my hands feel without having to actually buy a kit. Maybe even simpler, go take a lesson or two from your local drum instructor. 'Splain the situation, see how it goes. No need to rent a kit just to assess whether it's a go or a non-starter. Some of the "quiet drumming" options come with trade-offs; for instance rubber or mesh heads seem to be harder on my hands, wrists, and elbows. OTOH, some of that might be my fault, incorrect compensation or something... I've found continuing on the guitar -- as best I can -- helps keep my hands and fingers as limber as they're likely to be at any given time. No real cure for the carpal, the tennis elbow, the Milwaukee shoulder, the rotator cuff issues... but at least most of those haven't impaired drumming. The elbow goes south sometimes after a long session... mostly when I should have stopped a bit sooner. -D44 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted June 27, 2016 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2016 Just an update after people were good enough to offer helpful advice. I am playing slide but my left hand still hurts. I am going to give it another month or two to see whether it stays the same, gets worse, or improves and will then make a decision about giving it up for drums. Or maybe I'll keep one cheap guitar for slide in addition to starting the drums. I spoke to a local drum teacher and he said that he has arthritis in his fingers/hands but can sit behind a kit for hours with no problems.Obviously everyone is different but that does give one hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted June 27, 2016 Members Share Posted June 27, 2016 Cool. Go see that doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted June 27, 2016 Author Members Share Posted June 27, 2016 Cool. Go see that doctor. Thanks for reminding me...I needed to make an appointment with the specialist for something other than my hands. I'll make that appointment today and will discuss my hands when I see him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted June 30, 2016 Author Members Share Posted June 30, 2016 I picked up a cheap pair of sticks and an inexpensive electronic practice pad today. Screwing around with them a bit should give me an idea if my hands can handle it. From there I can take a lesson or two to see how things go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rayboomboom Posted July 1, 2016 Members Share Posted July 1, 2016 Great start. Remember to start playing lightly - tapping, and loose. Let your hands and wrists get used to the motion, before you start hitting with any amount of force. I usually start my own warm up routine this way, as per Stanton Moore, to wake up the muscles before they start getting a work out. Let us know how it goes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 2, 2016 Members Share Posted July 2, 2016 Warming up is requirement one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 2, 2016 Members Share Posted July 2, 2016 One thing about starter sticks; avoid the A variety. These are light and very responsive to professional technique but are built like pencils. Start with a B size stick. They have more girth and will fill your hands better. The standard here is Vic Firth SD1 General. http://vicfirth.com/products/drum-sticks/american-custom/sd1-general/ They have diameter in excess of .5 inch and are milled from maple. This makes them very light in contrast to sticks of equal proportions fashioned from hickory. The ball tip facilitates the full range of stick to surface angle and the cylindrical shaft is less springy than tapered varieties. This narrows the rebound response requiring more manual interaction. IOW it aids in developing the up strokes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TML Posted July 4, 2016 Author Members Share Posted July 4, 2016 My hands seem like they can handle swinging drumsticks. I a feeling some strain in my fingers but I am 100% certain that is coming from holding the sticks too tight. Some lessons and instruction on proper technique should fix that problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 5, 2016 Members Share Posted July 5, 2016 Grabbing a guitar takes far more force; 80 #s per finger according to Segovia IIRC Know that traditional stick control puts all the strain on your fingers and depends on freewheeling sticks for endurance. This may work for you IDK. Musically, freewheeling sticks = insufficient control. If you think about it 99% of note generation is subsonic activity. I suggest using as much palm and as little fingertips as possible.This allows for a crude embouchure (see brass playing) that is closer to low frequency resonance than hitting a drum. A good albeit exaggerated analogy would be the modern thrust vectored fighter jets compared to traditional linear thrust planes. When it comes to slicing up the sky, there is no comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Musically, freewheeling sticks = insufficient control. If you think about it 99% of note generation is subsonic activity. Could you elaborate a bit on that please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 6, 2016 Members Share Posted July 6, 2016 Could you elaborate a bit on that please? Sure. The concept is cloaked if not invisible but the "science" is pretty simple. In most music, notes are played at a subsonic rate; nominally a few dozen per minute and certainly under 20 per second. Drummers may be faced with several times that rate but on that scale low C is still faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Oh, I see, you're saying the note generation rate falls below 20Hz - thanks for the elaboration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted July 6, 2016 Members Share Posted July 6, 2016 I know, silly but it's in line with my sticks as LFOs theory/method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sixstringer7 Posted July 8, 2016 Members Share Posted July 8, 2016 I began playing guitar at age 11 (I'm 62 now). In my teens and twenties I played in a lot of bands. At age 31, I was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis. Over the next fifteen years, the arthritis caused extensive joint damage in both hands and wrists, making it difficult or impossible to play the guitar the way that I wanted to. So, in my mid-forties, I stopped playing guitar entirely, and switched to bass. In my fifties, I decided to learn to play the drums. I took lessons for about 18 months, learning basic rock beats and fills, and a few rudiments. Then I took a long hiatus from drums until a year ago, when I began taking lessons again. I have a great teacher, and have made a lot of progress in my playing, The damage in my hands and wrists limits my range of motion, and I know I'll never be Jojo Mayer, but that's okay; I'm having a lot of fun, and I'm very motivated to keep learning and improving. Here's my advice: 1. You don't say if you're seeing a rheumatologist. If not, make an appointment TODAY. Every day that you delay increases the risk that you will suffer irreversible joint damage that may make daily functioning, walking, eating, dressing, etc., difficult, let alone playing a musical instrument. Rheumatoid arthritis can also cause other conditions, such as cardiovascular disease. A good rheumatologist will assess you and prescribe the best treatments for your particular form of arthritis, including drugs, PT, homeopathic treatments, diet modification, exercise, etc. Biologic drugs (Enbrel, Humira) were the only thing that stopped my arthritis in its tracks, but they came along fifteen years after I was diagnosed. Today there are many more treatment options available to you. 2. Find a good teacher who emphasizes tension-free hand technique. If you start out with improper hand technique, you can do more harm than good. If you can't find anyone locally, look into Skype lessons with Bill Bachman at drumworkout.com. Hope this helps. Good luck and welcome to drumming. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rayboomboom Posted July 8, 2016 Members Share Posted July 8, 2016 Thanks for you story SS. That sounds really tough, but I'm glad you're sticking with it. As I get older, 56 this month, my body and especially my hands don't recover as quickly as they used to. We built our own house, literally, and it's taken a toll on my joints. That and bad playing technique for too long. I've been taking an herb supplement called CuraMed, a combo of Curcumin and Turmeric to help with any inflammation. It seems to be helping, takes less time to recover and joints aren't as stiff as they have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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