Members 144dB Posted May 9, 2016 Members Posted May 9, 2016 Hey all, I'm a small in-the-box guy who has never seen a big SSL, Neve, or API in person. If a big wig sits down to record or mix an album, how often are they (typically) using the stock mic pres or channel EQ? How often are they using outboard EQ or dedicated mic pres? To keep it simple, let's say it's a modern rock/pop album. I look at these big desks (and the stratospheric pricse), and I struggle to think that they wouldn't use the built in capabilities. But in my in-the-box world, I almost never use the Cubase channel EQs. If something needs processing, it's getting a plugin. Of course Cubase EQs don't sound like a big desk either. Just curious how it works with the big guys...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 9, 2016 CMS Author Posted May 9, 2016 There's absolutely no reason not to use a console's preamps or EQs. However, like you, who almost never use Cubase's built-in EQ, people develop habits and go with what they're most comfortable. Why do you almost never use the Cubase EQ? Do you always try it and nearly always find that it doesn't do what you want (and something else does)? Of course there's no statistically valid answer to your question. It depends on the engineer, the studio, the console, and the project. If you're always recording guitar based classical rock'n'roll and you have an API console, if you aren't happy with what you're getting, you should be looking for something other than the mic preamps or channel EQ. If you're recording a film score with an orchestra and all you have is an API console, you'll probably find that you'll want to use a few "very clean" Grace or Millenia Media sort of preamps, and very little EQ at all.
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 9, 2016 Members Posted May 9, 2016 Hey all, I'm a small in-the-box guy who has never seen a big SSL, Neve, or API in person. If a big wig sits down to record or mix an album, how often are they (typically) using the stock mic pres or channel EQ? How often are they using outboard EQ or dedicated mic pres? To keep it simple, let's say it's a modern rock/pop album. I look at these big desks (and the stratospheric pricse), and I struggle to think that they wouldn't use the built in capabilities. But in my in-the-box world, I almost never use the Cubase channel EQs. If something needs processing, it's getting a plugin. Of course Cubase EQs don't sound like a big desk either. Just curious how it works with the big guys... Most professional mixers and producers have their own outboard racks of preferred pres, comps, eqs, etc… The potential problem they face traveling from one studio to another is not knowing what they`re walking into so they have their own gear that they know is working. Yeah, you see a beautiful SSL but the truth is, not every channel may be functioning. Back in my intern days, the studio I was in had a 56 channel SSL J Series. I was stunned to see a top mixer have two 40 space racks delivered the day before he arrived with directions for us to have it all wired up when he arrived. This rack was custom built on wheels and folded up. It was impressive. Fortunately he had patch bays built in to the racks so it made it easier for us to patch everything into the SSL the way he wanted. He used all of his outboard gear and none of the studios which at the time was always kept in great condition with our full time tech there. He had an 8 hour mixing session the next day, kept to himself with minimal talk, and when done, tipped the assistant and myself, and left. His rack was picked up the next day from a moving company.
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 9, 2016 Posted May 9, 2016 It really depends on the board, but hopefully the studio was picked with that in mind. IOW, if it's a rock basic-tracking session and there's an API or a Neve sitting there, chances are better than great that a lot of the tracks will utilize the board preamps and (if needed) EQ. That doesn't mean you might not want to augment it with some other things. For example, you may have a outboard DI and/or preamp you want to use on the bass because you like the sound of it, or maybe you want to pick a more transparent preamp for the acoustic guitar or whatever.
Members 144dB Posted May 10, 2016 Author Members Posted May 10, 2016 Great info guys. I appreciate the feedback. I would think outboard would be a colossal pain in the ass from a recall standpoint, but I'm sure some of the vintage desks don't have automation anyways. I'm not even sure if an SSL computer captures EQ and Comp settings, or if it's just levels, pan, and inserts/sends.
Members 144dB Posted May 10, 2016 Author Members Posted May 10, 2016 Why do you almost never use the Cubase EQ? Do you always try it and nearly always find that it doesn't do what you want (and something else does)? Hi Mike, I have to plead guilty to snobbery on this one. I have a decent collection of plugins at my disposal, and the stock Cubase EQs have an old reputation of being harsh. I don't know that my ears are seasoned enough to detect it on a single channel, but with a 30-40 track mix, I'm concerned it could be a cumulative effect. If I need to EQ, I'll typically pull in a UAD Cambridge, a Waves Renaissance EQ, or the excellent PSP ConsoleQ and McQ.
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 10, 2016 CMS Author Posted May 10, 2016 Great info guys. I appreciate the feedback. I would think outboard would be a colossal pain in the ass from a recall standpoint, but I'm sure some of the vintage desks don't have automation anyways. I'm not even sure if an SSL computer captures EQ and Comp settings, or if it's just levels, pan, and inserts/sends. "Recall" wasn't a big deal in the "vintage" days. Why worry about recalling what you've already done right? It might save a little time when going back into the studio another day and working on the same song, but your voice, your instruments, and your ears never sound exactly the same day after day, so why worry about a mix being half a dB off somewhere? Setting the knobs to their "o'clock" positions, that were usually marked on a pre-printed recall sheet by the assistant (and returned to those positions by the assistant) was close enough so that only a couple of tweaks here and there was all that was needed to get working again. I'll say that when recording projects moved from studio to studio to put additional parts on a song by other musicians or for other studio capabilities like gear, the room, or the piano, being able to quickly create a mix that was what people were used to hearing. That's where SSL made their money.
Members Ernest Buckley Posted May 10, 2016 Members Posted May 10, 2016 I would think outboard would be a colossal pain in the ass from a recall standpoint Thats what assistants are for.
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 10, 2016 Posted May 10, 2016 Great info guys. I appreciate the feedback. I would think outboard would be a colossal pain in the ass from a recall standpoint I have three words for you: Polaroids Assistant Engineers. but I'm sure some of the vintage desks don't have automation anyways. There's a lot of boards out there without automation, but the great thing about Polaroids (in the old days) and phone camera pics (the modern version) is that type of "Polaroid automation" works with anything with knobs on it. Besides, it's traditionally the assistant engineer's job to document everything... and the first engineer's job to make sure they're doing it to their satisfaction. If there's no second / assistant, then it's up to you to DIY. I'm not even sure if an SSL computer captures EQ and Comp settings, or if it's just levels, pan, and inserts/sends. Depends on which SSL we're talking about.
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 13, 2016 Posted May 13, 2016 Great info guys. I appreciate the feedback. I would think outboard would be a colossal pain in the ass from a recall standpoint, but I'm sure some of the vintage desks don't have automation anyways. I'm not even sure if an SSL computer captures EQ and Comp settings, or if it's just levels, pan, and inserts/sends. I just received a Manley Core channel strip the other day for review... guess what I found in the very back of the manual? Blank settings recall sheets. Not every manual includes them, but a lot do. I still generally prefer taking pictures since it's quicker and they can be saved with everything else in a sub-folder within the main project folder right along with your notes, which I also keep in digital / text file form. Documentation is one of the things that separates the pros from the amateurs.
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted May 14, 2016 CMS Author Posted May 14, 2016 I just received a Manley Core channel strip the other day for review... guess what I found in the very back of the manual? Blank settings recall sheets. Mackie mixer manuals used to have a blank recall sheet.
Phil O'Keefe Posted May 14, 2016 Posted May 14, 2016 They're not in every manual, but they're not unheard of either. I always liked Mackie's approach to manuals... they're full of useful info for the neophytes and pros alike, and have a sense of humor and include stuff like the recall sheets. I wish more people included stuff like that. I certainly appreciate when they're included, even though I use photos instead of recall sheets for non-automated hardware.
Members 144dB Posted May 14, 2016 Author Members Posted May 14, 2016 I always liked Mackie's approach to manuals... they're full of useful info for the neophytes and pros alike' date=' and have a sense of humor and include stuff like the recall sheets. [/quote'] I totally agree. Mackie does great manuals, and the subtle humor they throw in is appreciated as well. They are a great little company.
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