Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Dad always tells me that adequate Headroom in a Mixer and Power Amp is essential to ensure a clean, healthy signal that will not fry the speakers. My friends asked me which entry level Mixer has the most Headroom. Can you tell me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I tend to think of headroom as how much room I have between the sound and volume I want to hear and clipping at any point in the signal chain. A lot of this will be a funtion of gain structure and having enough amplification to accomplish my needs. If you're jammng your gains, eqs and faders to the top of thier throw, you're going to run out of headroom quickly. Keeping your gain structure set correctly and having enough rig for the gig will afford the most amount of headroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Headroom is a function of amplification and speaker(s) output. The mixer doesn't create headroom, only indicates how much or how little you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I can't think of any mixer made these days that doesn't have plenty of headroom as long as you don't do anything silly like turn down the input attenuators on the power amp. For smaller mixers I have Yamaha and Soundcraft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 If you're running out of headroom on your mixer, you're doing something wrong (including not bringing a sufficiently large system). -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I will give you an example. On a Behringer mixer...the headroom is so limited. I know you folks hate Behringer...but I am using that as an example...but when I use the Midas Venice Mixer...the headroom is aplenty! So...there IS a difference in headroom yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I will give you an example. On a Behringer mixer...the headroom is so limited. I know you folks hate Behringer...but I am using that as an example...but when I use the Midas Venice Mixer...the headroom is aplenty! So...there IS a difference in headroom yes? Well one is designed to be a door stop and one isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well one is designed to be a door stop and one isn't. Yea...I know. Let's stop the Behringer bashing cos we know that d. So...can anyone tell me why the Midas has more headroom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I will give you an example. On a Behringer mixer...the headroom is so limited. I know you folks hate Behringer...but I am using that as an example...but when I use the Midas Venice Mixer...the headroom is aplenty! So...there IS a difference in headroom yes? As others have said, I'm guessing everything downstream makes a difference as well. Speakers, power amps etc. I you are in a room with 1000W of FOH power, the appropriate speakers, and the behringer, everything might be redlining, with no headroom at all. The same room with 5000W of FOH power, & appropriate speakers to deliver the power, you'd find the Midas has a lot more headroom, and you're not pushing the system nearly a hard.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 It depends on what your definition of headroom is. Sounds like you are confused with dynamic range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Yea...I know. Let's stop the Behringer bashing cos we know that d.So...can anyone tell me why the Midas has more headroom? Again, the budget for either system would probably be 2 different ranges. Someone with a behringer board probably won't have a Meyer front end... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I will give you an example. On a Behringer mixer...the headroom is so limited. I know you folks hate Behringer...but I am using that as an example...but when I use the Midas Venice Mixer...the headroom is aplenty! So...there IS a difference in headroom yes?I've never had a headroom issue with a properly working 'ringer mixer. My first inclination would be to assume the stuff being driven and how it is set is different in these cases and is the real issue. I would expect the skill level of the audio tech specing/settingup/running a $3000 mixer to generally be quite a bit higher than that of one with the $300 one. Others here argue with me but I'll stand by my assertion that the average sound guy would be best off running his amps WFO for headroom (with clip limiters engaged) instead of fooling around with backing them off for some generally inaudible increase in S/N ratio. Powered speakers are trickier in that some (like my RCF310A's) have a line/mic switch so can be run WFO on line but if not generally have to be back around 1 o'clock (YMMV). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Or maybe I'm messed up with my terms. Gain pots have headroom. So, if a gain has less headroom on one mixer than another, you would be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 As "headroom" is unused power you can't tell from listening which system has more. When you start using that headroom it no longer is headroom . OTOH if your channels are starting to sound funky to you back down the trims - PFL down 3-6db from where you normally run them and see if it clears up your sound. In the bad old days before PFL (and full meter bridges ) it was common to have the peak light flashing on channels so you knew you had the gain up enough. Some modern boards are OK with that and some not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 You can tell when you turn up the gain knob. If you have to travel past the half way point, your gain has a lower headroom than another type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Here's a short read about headroom, dynamic range and signal to noise. It gets tricky in that visual clipping on the metering of a mixer doesn't by itself mean the mixer is clipping. I seem to recall the Mizwiz for instance, has several dB of headroom beyond the metering alerting you there is clipping. So, from that perspective, all mixers do not have the same amount of headroom, because the visual display isn't accurate. It's basically a safety margin so those driving the snot out of their mixer have a chance of not really clipping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 BTW how many channels does you friend need? I really like the Yamaha MG series mixers if you need less than what a MixWiz gives you. Seems like they are discontinued now? : http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/mixers/mg_series_cx_models/mg_mixers/?mode=model Might be a good time to get one while they still have some in stock . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 BTW how many channels does you friend need? I really like the Yamaha MG series mixers if you need less than what a MixWiz gives you. Seems like they are discontinued now? : http://usa.yamaha.com/products/music-production/mixers/mg_series_cx_models/mg_mixers/?mode=model Might be a good time to get one while they still have some in stock . I have the MG166cx. Hated it! Very little headroom. its Effects sound like crap. EQ is weak. Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have the MG166cx. Hated it! Very little headroom. its Effects sound like crap. EQ is weak. Sigh...I've not found the built-in effects on any board (except for the 'verbs on my Phonic Summit) to be to my liking. They are generally usable if you don't turn them up too much. Again, I bet that MG would sound better if you didn't have the trims up quite as high. Yamaha pre's don't have graceful overload characteristics like a MixWiz or even my Summit. Not sure what you mean by "weak eq"? If you mean "overly subtle" you just need to crank them more. But certainly "weak" compared to having four fully parametric EQ's like my Summit. The MixWiz is still king of the rackmount analog mixers and is very forgiving of suboptimal mixing technique, dunno what they cost over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Might check this mixer out http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I want a Midas Venice if I can afford one...but I can't.sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I want a Midas Venice if I can afford one...but I can't.sigh...Have you actually tried a MizWiz? Most folks I've heard talk about the Venice don't rate it all that highly - especially for its price. If you don't need more channels than the MixWiz has and aren't ready (AKA crazy enough ? ) to move "up" to a digital mixer it really can't be beat . OTOH I generally think of it as a step above "entry level" which is what we're talking about here - hence my mention of the MG series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted February 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Have you actually tried a MizWiz? Most folks I've heard talk about the Venice don't rate it all that highly - especially for its price. If you don't need more channels than the MixWiz has and aren't ready (AKA crazy enough ? ) to move "up" to a digital mixer it really can't be beat . OTOH I generally think of it as a step above "entry level" which is what we're talking about here - hence my mention of the MG series. Yup...entry level it is! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know what a Midas Venice casts, but it just sounds expensive. -edit 3499.00 A studiolive would that and more and is the "entry Level" mixer you are looking for and mine cost 1600.00 when I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 8, 2012 Members Share Posted February 8, 2012 Oh, and it has tons of headroom.... just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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