Members vaughn4380 Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi everyone, over the past few years I have received a lot of assistance from this forum and always appreciate the input I receive here. I play guitar at my church, when I started years ago we had about 400 in the congregation spread out over two morning services (250 in first and 150 in second). Our current sanctuary was built 14 years ago, designed to hold 300 at the time, and the FOH speakers installed when it was built were 5 Tannoy speakers that resemble the TX12 listed on their website: http://www.tannoy.com/index.aspx(but I am not certain of the exact model as they are flown over the stage) these are currently run off one CE4000. No subs were installed at the time. Over the past few years we have grown to a steady 700 regular attendees (450 first service and 250 second service) and occasionally hit 1,000 at one time for special events and holiday services. To accommodate this, our church expanded the back of the sanctuary by removing the rear wall and joining the sanctuary with a gym and hallway that use to be separate areas. This effectively tripled the sanctuary size. No plans were made to upgrade the FOH speakers as the budget just wasn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget to factor in the cost of having any speakers you purchase correctly and safely flown. DIY flying PA is a recipe for disaster. Never used those cabs, but they look good on paper and are meant to be flown. I am not wild about flying powered cabs, though, as you have to devise a way to power them on and off and you cannot make adjustments easily once they are 35' up. I suspect you need to up your budget and hire a professional to do this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 A drive rack PA or PX won't have a suitable delay for the remote speakers. You will need a different delay device. Subs in a church. Can't really tell from your description, but most churches are way too live to get help from sub-woofers. (Think 32' pipes used constantly on a pipe organ.) I would never use subs in a gymnasium. Churches are frequently similar. I'm sure someone else will tell you otherwise, but test it out with borrowed equipment first. The resultant mud should discourage you from further investigation. If for some reason that there isn't a perceivable reverberant echo, go for the subs, but consider them an augmentation and not the primary speakers, them power them accordingly. They are an extremely rare help for low bass vocals. Voice reproduction especially speech clarity has to be the primary concern. Subs will never help with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 I can't seem to be able to justify $2000 per cabinet for almost any purpose other than a regional or above sound company. And that would be line array type speaker boxes. You would be better off with the SRX, IMHO. Also, like WynnD mentioned above, the driverack has to be a 260 or above for the delayed speakers. If you don't have that, you need one of those as well. I would look at subwoofers as your band needs them. I wouldn;t worry about the room's acoustics as much with all those people int there, it will tame the reverb of the room. SRX 218's should provide enough low to cover the band's needs without being too much. Season to taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 What would be alternatives you suggest? Save up some more money and hire somebody who knows what they're doing. Your budget is grossly inadequate and no one in this forum is going to be able to properly spec a system for you over the internet. I wouldn't worry about the room's acoustics as much with all those people int there, it will tame the reverb of the room. There's absolutely zero way of knowing that without actually being in or looking at the room. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 My immediate thought is to pick up 2 more TX-12's and fly/delay them. (the typical position (IF FLOWN HIGH) would be about 1/3 back which would begin picking up on the floor at about 1/2 back. That would allow uniformity in overall response characteristics allowing for smoother integration. The TX-12 is a great speaker overall. Add a couple of subs by the stage, properly integrate these using the DR (needs to be a 260 or higher to allow for adequate delay) and you may fine crossing over at 100-110Hz gives you a lot more headroom than you have now on your TX-12's. The delayed TX-12's s will need to be high passed at 100-110Hz as well. I also recommend getting a professional to assist you in this endevor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vaughn4380 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 I also recommend getting a professional to assist you in this endevor. Do you guys talk to each other before posting? I have suggested this in the past and plan to continue to do so. We will see if leadership follows that suggestion. Anyone know a good pro around Columbus Ohio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vaughn4380 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget to factor in the cost of having any speakers you purchase correctly and safely flown. DIY flying PA is a recipe for disaster.Never used those cabs, but they look good on paper and are meant to be flown. I am not wild about flying powered cabs, though, as you have to devise a way to power them on and off and you cannot make adjustments easily once they are 35' up.I suspect you need to up your budget and hire a professional to do this right. Thanks, I am told there is a gentleman the church knows who has offered to fly them after we buy them. He supposedly has experience with a company doing this at other churches. If he falls through (or isn't qualified), we will definately hire a pro for the install side. I never thought about the powered portion of the cabs needing to plug in somewhere, I know we have no power outlets in the ceiling right now. I will bring this up at the next meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vaughn4380 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 I can't seem to be able to justify $2000 per cabinet for almost any purpose other than a regional or above sound company. And that would be line array type speaker boxes. You would be better off with the SRX, IMHO. Also, like WynnD mentioned above, the driverack has to be a 260 or above for the delayed speakers. If you don't have that, you need one of those as well.I would look at subwoofers as your band needs them. I wouldn;t worry about the room's acoustics as much with all those people int there, it will tame the reverb of the room. SRX 218's should provide enough low to cover the band's needs without being too much. Season to taste. Thanks, I never thought about that, but $2,000 is getting into line array prices. I will also bring this up in the next meeting. I have no idea what driverack we have, but I plan to find out tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vaughn4380 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 My immediate thought is to pick up 2 more TX-12's and fly/delay them. (the typical position (IF FLOWN HIGH) would be about 1/3 back which would begin picking up on the floor at about 1/2 back. That would allow uniformity in overall response characteristics allowing for smoother integration. The TX-12 is a great speaker overall.Add a couple of subs by the stage, properly integrate these using the DR (needs to be a 260 or higher to allow for adequate delay) and you may fine crossing over at 100-110Hz gives you a lot more headroom than you have now on your TX-12's. The delayed TX-12's s will need to be high passed at 100-110Hz as well.I also recommend getting a professional to assist you in this endevor. Thanks, also good to know. The general consensus at the church is the Tannoy's must be bad since no one has heard of them. I am told by our sound guys that all FOH speakers are currently high passed, not sure what frequency though so I will try to find out tonight. I know the current subs are run out of a seperate channel on the drive rack to allow them to be low passed. If the TX-12 is a good speaker, I am thinking it might be better to add some quality subs, buy two TX-12's, and use the leftover amount of the budget to hire a pro (and possibly an adequate driverack). I know you use 4 SRX 718s at one of your theatre jobs and have said you are satisfied with their performance. I would really like our leadership to at least consider two SRX 718s as an option. The Eons added so much that we were missing from our bass guitar and kick drum, I would think a higher quality sub would be an improvement. Can the SRX 718 be flown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 I won't bother to comment on the speakers as there are others here already have and know more than I, but you might consider passing this document on to church leadership if you want to help convince them to bring in a professional design company. I have no affiliation with Audiosystems Group, I just think it's good advice for a growing church to consider. http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/3Times.pdf Good luck, Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 The TX-12 is not an unknown speaker, it's a very good pro audio product for this application. I would not fly the subs unless absolutely necessary. Last resort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted February 16, 2012 Members Share Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget to factor in the cost of having any speakers you purchase correctly and safely flown. DIY flying PA is a recipe for disaster. I don't know where you are ... but generally you need to get a permit to fly speakers in a public building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted February 17, 2012 Members Share Posted February 17, 2012 dboomer, In most areas in FL (I am in the Gainesville area), permits are generally required, but enforcement seems spotty at best. I've seen some dangerous s--t hanging from the rafters around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 17, 2012 Members Share Posted February 17, 2012 dboomer, In most areas in FL (I am in the Gainesville area), permits are generally required, but enforcement seems spotty at best. I've seen some dangerous s--t hanging from the rafters around here. Unmtil something happens, then the authorities will be on the responsable parties like flys on {censored}. That's a position you really don't want to be in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted February 17, 2012 Members Share Posted February 17, 2012 That seems to be the mindset around here - why prevent when you can overreact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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