pine as tonewood

[Grant Harding]

This is about electric guitars. I suspect you believe the body material of an electric is irrelevant and any effects cannot be measured with scientific certainty and that ears are also useless as tools for comparison.

[billybilly]

Any possibility of expanding on that?

[Randellscott]

I do not believe the tone wood hype.

[1001gear]

I do not believe the tone wood hype.

 

Any particular reason or dissertation ?

[billybilly]

I'm guessing informed ignorance.

[WRGKMC]

Poor acoustics affects the way the strings respond so it has a direct impact on my performance skills. I place it first on my list because its first in in a long chain of events that are all tied together. If one lacks you have a bottleneck situation. I don't see it as being more or less important then the pickups, amp or speakers. Those are all in series with what occurs and anything in series and any bottleneck can diminish the final results.

 

We add various bottlenecks in the electronic part of the chain to develop intentional alterations to get the electric guitar sound. The key is the changes are controlled of the performer. They all involve degrading and altering the signal in one manor or another but they all involve a degree of fidelity reduction.

 

I prefer to begin the chain with the best acoustic fidelity possible because it directly impacts my performance skills. I can unplug the guitar and remove the rest of the chain and still play the instrument as well as I do plugged in. If the acoustic quality is lower I feel it in the way the strings respond and ho the instrument feels playing and find it less inspiring to play whether its plugged in or not.

 

Higher acoustic fidelity has the potential to generate a higher fidelity electrical copy of the string vibration. You then have greater headroom to do more damage to it before its completely unrecognizable. Again, more control is possible if the overall if you begin with good acoustic tone. If you begin with poor tone, it gets neutered much more quickly with less effects applied.

[WRGKMC]

Nothing wrong with having a belief. As a musician, keeping an open mind is better though. I've known many famous guitarists that have played all their lives. Their lives are built around musical tones and finding the best instruments to provide those tones. You wouldn't much of a conversation with them if you believe their opinions are false. A little open mindedness goes a long ways working with others and its safer to say wood tone has no influence on you as it might on others.

[Notes_Norton]

Can anyone listen to an unidentified guitar player playing a song they never heard before and tell me what kind of wood the guitar was made out of?

 

If not, it doesn't matter.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[1001gear]

What you can or cannot nail down about what you hear has nothing to do with wood/s effect on electric guitar.

[Grant Harding]

That makes no sense. It's not the species that makes the difference, it's the grade and quality of the actual pieces used.

 

If you believe that a Suhr is indistinguishable from am SX brand then that's what you should get. My ears and hands tell me otherwise. It's a curse.

[Randellscott]

Can anyone listen to an unidentified guitar player playing a song they never heard before and tell me what kind of wood the guitar was made out of?

 

If not, it doesn't matter.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

What he said. I never heard a song and said a LP with Mahogany. Or Stratocaster with alder. I showed a cheap Harley Benton last night. 1 board. 2 pickups and the head stock. 1 piece of wood. A guy said the fingerboard wood makes a difference on that guitar. What? Fingerboard wood makes the difference in the sound of that guitar? Dose wood matter now? Be truthful?

[billybilly]

 

What he said. I never heard a song and said a LP with Mahogany. Or Stratocaster with alder. I showed a cheap Harley Benton last night. 1 board. 2 pickups and the head stock. 1 piece of wood. A guy said the fingerboard wood makes a difference on that guitar. What? Fingerboard wood makes the difference in the sound of that guitar? Dose wood matter now? Be truthful?

 

 

It makes me curious how anyone who can't hear the difference in tonewoods could even entertain playing music given their limitations in hearing.

 

Sure, it's tough on recordings but in my home, where I play, it's easy to hear the difference with every guitar I play. Even the same species all sound differnent as no two pieces of wood are the same.

[1001gear]

Norton's posture is bass ackwards. If you complete that analogy the studio shoulda used a cassette recorder.To second an airhead comment is beyond the scope of my perception.

[roughtrade]

I don't believe the wood hype either,

 

[video=youtube;5F2SHlfB8YE]

 

 

 

[video=youtube;hFyQXy74xz4]

 

I expect if wood were the answer there would be no reason to search for that elusive quality we call tone.

[Phil O'Keefe]

The biggest problem with pine IMO is that it's too soft. Cosmetically, it doesn't hold up well unless you leave it exposed and dig the "distressed" look. It dings really easily.

[Grant Harding]

That concrete guitar works. Yes - it's definitely a guitar with a transducer pickup on it.

 

Do you love the tone it's producing and think that it couldn't possibly be any better if it was made of great wood? Is that the intended takeaway here?

 

I have a contact Bluetooth speaker that sticks onto anything and makes it into a speaker. Does the trick in terms of making the music louder, but you'd have to have lead ears to compare that to my Polk speakers and not hear a difference. Some people don't believe in speakers though - they apply a current to some Jello because speaker material is irrelevant.

[1001gear]

I don't believe the wood hype either,

 

[video=youtube;5F2SHlfB8YE]

 

I expect if wood were the answer there would be no reason to search for that elusive quality we call tone.

 

Concrete guitar renders wood irrelevant. Bad equation.

 

FWIW the second guitar sounded a little softer. That could be due to the player or any other variable including concrete. Regardless, a generic porch guitar tone is but a fraction of guitar tone and anyone who actually plays music will soon find the interpretive limitations of any instrument. Your choosing to be blind to those issues does not diminish the requirements of the artist, nor does implying technology is the one true path. Troll on.

[Emory]

And don't forget the importance regarding if wood in body is from north or south facing side of the tree (and which hemisphere tree grew in). Coriolis force can also influence sustain, as it subtly determines the spread of sap within the rings. Trees furthest from equator good for rockabilly, close to equator a must for smooth jazz.

[knotty]

Surely the main point is that when in a mix, recorded or on stage you can't tell what the guitars are made of. I don't see many of the " my ears are better than yours" gang jumping up and down saying they can.

This, if you can't hear a difference you're a crap musician inference is nonsense.

[Grant Harding]

I guarantee that when I'm on stage with my guitar the benefits of the high grade woods are obvious to anyone. I play clean tones more than half the time, with sparse arrangements so you can really hear the guitar.

 

I don't gig all the time, so I'm not in the "that'll be good enough" space that lots of working musicians get to out of necessity or boredom or seething contempt for drunk patrons. I like to make a serious effort and to me that means no concrete guitars.

[1001gear]

Surely the main point is that when in a mix, recorded or on stage you can't tell what the guitars are made of. I don't see many of the " my ears are better than yours" gang jumping up and down saying they can.

This, if you can't hear a difference you're a crap musician inference is nonsense.

 

I'm just pointing out the argument is crap. Can't hear the difference; don't care the difference; doesn't mean there is no difference. If they are also crappy musicians is not relevant.

[Notes_Norton]

I counter "If you can't hear the difference my ears are better than yours" with "If you can hear the difference your imagination must be better than mine."

 

I say this because these kinds of arguments are pointless in a serious debate - they mean nothing but instead are veiled personal attacks with someone who disagrees with you.

 

OK, I played this solo live on stage about 10 or so years ago, http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_oldtimeguitar.mp3 -- tell me what kind of wood. If you can't, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

It was recorded live on an Archos Jukebox using the internal microphone as a WAV and then ripped to 56K using CDex.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[1001gear]

I counter "If you can't hear the difference my ears are better than yours" with "If you can hear the difference your imagination must be better than mine."

 

I say this because these kinds of arguments are pointless in a serious debate - they mean nothing but instead are veiled personal attacks with someone who disagrees with you.

 

OK, I played this solo live on stage about 10 or so years ago, http://www.nortonmusic.com/mp3/_oldtimeguitar.mp3 -- tell me what kind of wood. If you can't, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

It was recorded live on an Archos Jukebox using the internal microphone as a WAV and then ripped to 56K using CDex.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

I don't know who you're addressing but I didn't say my ears are better or anything beyond your argument is bogus. You issued a loaded challenge; one that you yourself can't meet and somehow equate that to proof of your premise. It doesn't address anything about tonewoodl. Just that you have poor logic. That my friend is just stupid.

[wankdeplank]

That concrete guitar works. Yes - it's definitely a guitar with a transducer pickup on it.

 

Do you love the tone it's producing and think that it couldn't possibly be any better if it was made of great wood? Is that the intended takeaway here?

 

I have a contact Bluetooth speaker that sticks onto anything and makes it into a speaker. Does the trick in terms of making the music louder, but you'd have to have lead ears to compare that to my Polk speakers and not hear a difference. Some people don't believe in speakers though - they apply a current to some Jello because speaker material is irrelevant.

 

What??? Another tonewood argument and I missed it? ^Good analogy and I concur Koiwoi.

 

That concrete body guitar sounds like total {censored}e. The only thing that makes it musical at all IMO is the wooden neck. Construct one with a concrete neck and body and see how that works out for you musically (forget the hernia you're going to get). I mean those acrylic guitars were all the rage during the hair metal days but seems you can't give one away today. Reason? They only really sound halfway decent at high gain. But truth be told, even the high gain stuff sounds better with a well made wooden guitar because of the improved complexity of the tone.

 

Each to his own and a guitar buried in the mix is harder to hear and identify tonewise. All I know is that for me, if the guitar I practice with is not inspiring me tonewise, I have to get rid of it. The other aspect is that tone is the fix and if it's not there, I just don't bother to pick it up. If I wanted to play guitar and that concrete turd was all that was available to play, I'd quit for sure, no two ways about it.

[knotty]

Still nobody volunteering to tell the difference and identify the woods? How strange when its so obvious to you?

 

I believe, no, I know it makes a difference, I can feel it when I play. After its been through the signal chain and the amp and bounced off a few walls, can I identify It? NO. Neither can you.