Members WynnD Posted December 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 Not setting rehearsal levels. Just noting them. It was a pleasure and fun too. (And I can really appreciate not having my hearing ringing for several days. At these levels it doesn't ring at all.) I've walked out of a club where the sound was crystal clear and seriously painful. Just like having someone stick ice picks in my ears. I stayed 5 minutes. Also walked out of Kool and the Gang at the Pepsi Center. (Didn't make it to the second song.) Groups I've never had to walk out of include Blood Sweat and Tears, and the Temptations. (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Deep Purple,Earth Wind and Fire and Little Richard were all marginal.) I've seen BS&T and The Temptations multiple times. The others only once. I don't go back to great LOUD concerts. That is lost revenue and should be a concern to the performers. (Though it's clearly the sound engineer's fault. Just cause you can get the volume up that high without feedback, doesn't make it a good idea.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 you seem to be anti-technology when it comes to sound. If your equipment wasn't studied with technology, it might not work as well. All the design engineers are at least used to using a DB meter enough to have serious ideas where the levels are. Club owners usually can't do anything worthwhile without a meter. How else would you compare the band you loved last Friday to tonight's band this friday? Ears really aren't a very good tool for listening. Unfortunately they are the only thing we have. Maybe that will change in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 25, 2015 Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 I know what levels work for me in the clubs. The band area points at the bar and I let the bartenders know that if they feel it's too loud, and it's interfering with them taking orders, don't hesitate to let me know and I can back it down for them. They understand it's going to be loud, but it's not going to be stupid loud if I can avoid it. During setup I'll explain to the band that we don't need to be stupid loud, because we don't want to deafen the pretty bartenders behind the bar. 95% of the time it works out fine. If it gets too loud, I back them out of the mains until there's nothing. I'll talk to the offending musician between sets, or even between songs. Usually they'll back it down for me. If not, or if they are difficult, we just put them on the "don't bring back" list. I'm not there to hurt anyone and I won't mix with earplugs, if it's loud enough for earplugs, to me it's too loud. I get a lot of shout outs, lots of compliments on my work, everyone is happy. The bar likes what I do, the bands like what I do, i even get compliments from people in the crowd. So it works out for everyone. We we have a great local crowd who really digs original music. We do 2-3 babds in a night. I have a sound gig on Boxing Day (dec 26) 3 bands I've done sound for in the past. Should be a great time. Pushing for an early start to be done by 12;30am. Then on the 27th I'll tear down, load out and load into the local community hall for my bands upcoming NYE gig. Pretty stoked for that. And again it will be at volumes appropriate for the rooms, though I can't put a number on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 25, 2015 Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 Our ears are the best tools for listening since other people's ears are what we are mixing FOR. I'm certainly not anti-technology. Just pro-good uses of it. A db meter is hardly a technological wonder. They are useful if you're playing a venue that has established some arbitrary db limit that you must adhere to. These limits often have nothing at all to do with either 'good' or 'pleasant' sound. A well-mixed band is often going to sound much more pleasing even at higher volume levels than a poorly mixed one. And the arbitrary levels set by clubowners are usually just simply arbitrary. But if the limits exist, then a db meter is the best way to adhere to them. But beyond that? I can see no real usefulness for one. And in fact, I'd argue that time/effort spent being overly concerned about db levels is time spent away from doing REAL sound mixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 25, 2015 Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 Not setting rehearsal levels. Just noting them. It was a pleasure and fun too. (And I can really appreciate not having my hearing ringing for several days. At these levels it doesn't ring at all.) I've walked out of a club where the sound was crystal clear and seriously painful. Just like having someone stick ice picks in my ears. I stayed 5 minutes. Also walked out of Kool and the Gang at the Pepsi Center. (Didn't make it to the second song.) Groups I've never had to walk out of include Blood Sweat and Tears, and the Temptations. (Emerson, Lake and Palmer, Deep Purple,Earth Wind and Fire and Little Richard were all marginal.) I've seen BS&T and The Temptations multiple times. The others only once. I don't go back to great LOUD concerts. That is lost revenue and should be a concern to the performers. (Though it's clearly the sound engineer's fault. Just cause you can get the volume up that high without feedback, doesn't make it a good idea.) Yeah, again. Nobody here is arguing for high volume. (Although I guess it should be noted that just because YOU thought a concert was too loud and didn't come back doesn't mean very much of anyone else did.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 Boxing Day gig? That would be fun. Did you know that your Unity 15s are rated Max Spl just 3 db more than my ZXA1s and weigh 4 times as much? (And I suspect they also cost more than $500 each.) You probably run your system harder than I run mine and at 62, light weight is becoming a serious plus. Your subs are 6 dbc louder max spl. Mine weight 48 pounds and fit in most trunks. I'm just comparing. Yorkville makes very good stuff. (So does EV) Probably the only thing that is seriously different for the audience, is that the Yorkville's look more substantial. (And would be perceived to be louder cause they are larger.) The maximum volume level differences aren't insignificant, but they aren't huge either. (doubling the power is a 3 db increase, assuming same efficiency level. You probably knew that.) Neither of us are probably running these rigs close to max indoors. I've hit the limiters outdoors, but I'm not doing concerts. Have a great gig tomorrow. If I lived close, I would try to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 Our ears aren't very good. Wouldn't assume that everyone hears the same. I'm already positive they don't. Some people like broccoli and others find it very bitter. Hearing is similar. You will find older folks being more critical about loud volume. Finding that among 20 somethings is a bit rare. (Maybe unwilling to speak up about it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 I'm not like a lot of people. But BS&T and the Temptations have been concert mainstays for many decades. It must be working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 25, 2015 Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 That's the point. We CAN'T assume that everyone hears the same---or that every audience/venue is the same, but yet you want to mix by using some arbitrary number on a db meter. Of course older audiences will more critical about loud volume. They also don't want to hear the same songs as younger audiences generally. That's why you hire bands/choose songlists/mix levels to fit the audience and the venue and the gig. Good sound engineers know this and are able to do this without the need for a db meter and some chart of numbers that corresponds with different age groups. Our ears may not be 'very good', but they are what we are mixing to. What do YOU do? Mix based on what meters tell you and if someone complains that it's too loud/too quiet or just simply sounds bad to them you tell them "sorry, but the meters say everything is perfect. The problem must be with your ears"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted December 25, 2015 Members Share Posted December 25, 2015 again, nobody is arguing for high volume here. Or saying that low volume is a bad thing. Who are you arguing with? But would you feel better if I made a list of really loud bands who have been concert mainstays for many decades? The Who, for example? Must be working for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 26, 2015 Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 You actually spend/waste time at rehearsal measuring db levels??? Can I ask for what purpose?To show the deaf guitarists. I have one for the iPad that turns the whole screen green, yellow or red - you can put it across the room so that everyone can see it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 You've got a DB signal app that uses color? I'd be interested in that. I've heard of clubs using that type of thing to keep bands in check. (They hate customers walking out because the band is loud. Doesn't take the loss of very many before the profit for the night is gone.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 26, 2015 Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 Boxing Day gig? That would be fun. Did you know that your Unity 15s are rated Max Spl just 3 db more than my ZXA1s and weigh 4 times as much? (And I suspect they also cost more than $500 each.) You probably run your system harder than I run mine and at 62, light weight is becoming a serious plus. Your subs are 6 dbc louder max spl. Mine weight 48 pounds and fit in most trunks. I'm just comparing. Yorkville makes very good stuff. (So does EV) Probably the only thing that is seriously different for the audience, is that the Yorkville's look more substantial. (And would be perceived to be louder cause they are larger.) The maximum volume level differences aren't insignificant, but they aren't huge either. (doubling the power is a 3 db increase, assuming same efficiency level. You probably knew that.) Neither of us are probably running these rigs close to max indoors. I've hit the limiters outdoors, but I'm not doing concerts. Have a great gig tomorrow. If I lived close, I would try to make it. love my setup. It's never let me down in almost 13 years. The subs pretty much idle all the time at gigs. We've played 5 hours and they aren't even warm at the end of the night. I keep an eye on the amps all night. The monitor amps sometimes tickle the DDT but then I back them down a hair until they don't. Never thermaled any of the amps. I don't mind the weight, I roll everything into my trailer so it's all good. I have a 3 hour drive ahead of me then I'll be setting up for tonight. We are going to have a 10pm sharp start and end at 12:30am. Tear down tomorrow and load into another venue for our NYE gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 27, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2015 I never thermaled the ZXA1s until I set them up besides a dark brick wall on a hot day in the direct sunlight. Then one thermaled for about 20 minutes. It was during a break in the music and the remaining one was enough to handle the awards presentation outdoors. (It was much further away from that brick wall.) Again have a great gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted December 27, 2015 Members Share Posted December 27, 2015 You've got a DB signal app that uses color? I'd be interested in that. http://www.studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/spl-modules/spl_traffic_light.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 27, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 27, 2015 I have Studio Six Digital's Audio Tools. It's an in app purchase that I had never taken advantage of. That's been fixed. Pretty slick. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 27, 2015 Members Share Posted December 27, 2015 Fun night last night. Definitely worth the drive & the work. I love love music!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted December 28, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 28, 2015 Good crowd. Lots of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted December 28, 2015 Members Share Posted December 28, 2015 Always a good time. Got a great compliment "this was the best we've ever sounded!" Loaded out yesterday and then loaded everything into the venue we are playing at for NYE. They didn't have the stage up so we are setting up today at 2pm. Robbie's Rock n Roll Roadshow ready to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.