Members badpenguin Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hey all. in my acoustics, I usually throw in a piezo under the saddle, then to an output. I tend NOT to use a pre-amp or an EQ, since I don't want to cut a hole into a guitar. So, in my efforts to try to fix that wonderful hummmmmm that comes from the strings not being grounded, I've tried a copper plate, (that changed the tone of the guitar, bad thingy...) copper tape, that worked... until a string change or two, and even a wire thru the ball ends to ground. (Shuddering at the memory.) I have even gone the route of wearing a ground wire on my wrist to the jack. So, now I am thinking shielding paint. Any suggestions? Thoughts, solutions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Okay,I'm known for trying crazy ideas. So I would try slipping a piece of light copper wire through the string balls before seating them ,then ground the wire. If it worked, hooray. If it didn't work wouldn't tell anyone.about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Your best bet is an endpin preamp. No hole in the guitar, although you'll need to enlarge the endpin hole to about 3/8" to make way for the jack. In price, they range from $30 or so for an Artec on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Artec-EPP-Endpin-Jack-integrated-Preamp-Kit-for-Acoustic-Guitar-Instrument-/371340719417?hash=item5675a1b539:g:qHcAAOSwDk5TtFt5) on up. A Fishman Powerjack like the one in my main acoustic will run about $90 or more (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fishman-PowerJack-Active-Guitar-Instrument-Endpin-Jack-Preamp-for-Passive-Pickup-/361126949803?hash=item5414d7f3ab:g:3HIAAOSwg3FUcobn). The issue is that you're making your amp or PA amplify a fairly weak signal. A dedicated preamp will do a better, quieter job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Where's an image of Pete Townsend "grounding" an acoustic when you need one. Joking btw - I don't like guitar abuse aside from the odd scratch from a bra strap or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted December 3, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Gardo, tried that, wasn't worth the frustration.Seen them Deep, andI may consider it, but I still want the thing grounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Like the OP, I didn't want to put any holes in my guitar. I also don't like to depend on batteries so I put a completely passive Fishman under saddle transducer in my guitar and use an external LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI with phantom power. It has an extremely high input impedance which contributes to a much improved signal to noise ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 I think an onboard preamp is the best option by a mile. You deal to the noise by getting the signal boosted close to the pickup. You can get systems with low profile controls that tuck in behind the sound hole if you don't want to cut the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Piezo elements shouldn't need grounding to prevent hum if the right preamp rig is used and its close enough in line with the element. I have installed guitar magnetic pickups in acoustics and can have had hum issues.The easiest way to get rid of them is to ground the strings so your body acts as a shield. To do this you need a strip of self sticking copper foil maybe an inch wide and 4" long with a ground wire soldered to it.You stick the tape inside the guitar body over the string holes, then punch a hole through the tape from the inside so the broken foil goes up into the peg slots. Then when you string the guitar up, you place the strings over the foil so it makes a ground contact on all 6.The soldered wire gets connected to the sleeve of the output jack as a common ground. The one strip of foil should have minimal effect on tone and it can always be peeled off is you ever remove the setup so no permanent harm is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted December 3, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah.... as I said, tried that, and it worked for a string change or two. Then the foil rips and shreds away from the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Like the OP, I didn't want to put any holes in my guitar. I also don't like to depend on batteries so I put a completely passive Fishman under saddle transducer in my guitar and use an external LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI with phantom power. It has an extremely high input impedance which contributes to a much improved signal to noise ratio. The late Terry Allan Hall was a mainstay of Acoustic Guitars and a huge fan of the Para DI. You can clip it to your belt and use a very short run of cable from the guitar to the Para DI. You can also use the same unit with multiple guitars. It would probably work for what you need. As WRGKMC wrote, a piezo shouldn't have grounding issues unless there's something else going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WRGKMC Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Its the long cable that creates more hum. You want the preamp close to the Piezo with the shortest wire run possible. This way the signal is boosted up well above the noise floor for long cable transmission. If you put the preamp at the end of a 25' guitar cord you'll amplify all the additional hum the cable picks up. (and its going to sound allot worse because the cable will add capacitance which kills your high end frequency response) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Oh! I didn't realise it was smallish and battery powered! Stick it on the back of your strap right next to your wireless transmitter and you're good to go. This is a really good recommendation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted December 3, 2015 Members Share Posted December 3, 2015 Yeah, the run on mine is what, maybe a foot from the undersaddle saddle piezo to the endpin jack? Even with, say, a half meter (about 19.7") cable run from the jack to the Para DI, there shouldn't be much hum. We don't know what length of cable the OP is using but I use a 10' into a DI box. If he's running a cable to an amp, it could easily be 20', which is a lot of opportunity for hum. I once built a "stomp box," a wooden box with a set of piezo disks inside that you were supposed to stomp on to make percussion sounds. It was unusable because of the hum involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted December 7, 2015 Members Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have a passive Fishman undersaddle transducer in my guitar and use a regular 10' guitar cable to the DI and I have no noise issues. I did a show on the weekend where a guy came in with a passive pickup on the bridge of his violin. He wanted to move around on stage so I gave him a 20' cable in front of the DI and there still wasn't any noise issues. I use quality cables, sensible cable layout and star grounding so that may also contribute to the lack of noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarcapo Posted December 14, 2015 Members Share Posted December 14, 2015 You shouldn't need to ground the strings on an acoustic with a piezo undersaddle transducer pickup. It creates a voltage from the mechanical vibrations of the piezo crystals and NOT from electromagnetic coupling of the strings to the coils of a pickup with a magnet in it. There's might be a poor connection at the jack creating hum . A preamp will boost your signal and give you a larger signal to noise ratio which will help but if the hum is severe I would check how the jack is wired and if your cord doesn't have a short in it. Grounding the strings won't make a difference because they have no effect on a piezo pickup system that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted December 15, 2015 Members Share Posted December 15, 2015 You shouldn't need to ground the strings on an acoustic with a piezo undersaddle transducer pickup. It creates a voltage from the mechanical vibrations of the piezo crystals and NOT from electromagnetic coupling of the strings to the coils of a pickup with a magnet in it. There's might be a poor connection at the jack creating hum . A preamp will boost your signal and give you a larger signal to noise ratio which will help but if the hum is severe I would check how the jack is wired and if your cord doesn't have a short in it. Grounding the strings won't make a difference because they have no effect on a piezo pickup system that way. Absolutely correct. To the OP: as GC says, it could be the jack or the fault could lie in your external electronics: cables, amplifier, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted December 21, 2015 Members Share Posted December 21, 2015 I have heard it said that wearing a tin-foil hat and aluminum--wrapped socks (in place of shoes)will solve the problem of the strings not being grounded. Running a wire from the top of the hat to the power source can help if you've washed your hair and not allowed it to dry. Even detractors of piezos such as myself were mpressed with the Jimi Hendrix-like distortion sounds a young lad, (may he RIP), was getting out of his set-up one night. He had a Martin D15 and an old Peavey amp. It was a bowling alley gig. Alas, something went wrong in his set-up and the tournament had to resume a little earlier than officials had planned. But despite the mishap, nobody would quibble with the young man's tone. It was tone to die for - from a piezo!. And even after the hearse pulled away and the ER people had left the scene, several of us were still talking about how good his rig sounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted December 23, 2015 Author Members Share Posted December 23, 2015 My friend, that setup ONLY works if you stick a fork inside your tube amp! An secondly, I can't trust ANYTHING you say, since every time you touch something on your rack, you electrocute yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted December 26, 2015 Members Share Posted December 26, 2015 "Electrocute" is a bit theatrical in choice of words. Not everything. But there are metal devices in my rack and near the mixer that carry a shock. As I said earlier, I've had that problem every dwelling I've lived in this city. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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