What Are Your Report Cards for Windows 10 and El Capitan?

[Anderton]

I haven't upgraded to either one yet, but need to do so. In the case of Windows 10, I'm trying to clean up my C: drive as much as possible so I can image it before doing an in-place upgrade from Windows 7 (I know a clean install is best, but I just don't want to re-install all my other programs). Meanwhile over in Mac-land, although I can't update my desktop I do have a relatively recent MacBook Pro. But, in the reviews page on El Capitan, I see more 1 start than 5 star reviews (ouch!) and I think NI recommends against upgrading.

 

What say you?

[ggm1960]

I'm fine with windows 10. Did the upgrade a couple months ago on a Dell XPS i5 desktop and all seemed to go smoothly except for loosing a freebie version of WaveLab LE. Now, I don't use that computer extensively but as near as I can tell the stuff I was using before seems to be working just fine including the Presonus FP10 and backup drives that are attached to it. Overall I find Win10 to be easy to navigate and use, not unlike Win7.

 

For the El Capitan thing I continue to hold off. I've received many emails warning that this and that is not compatible. I don't really feel the need to upgrade my newest MBP or the one in my studio and I'm not about to do any upgrades on the MBP I use live with the band. I've just spent the last two weeks upgrading my live keyboard rig with a new Roland FA-08 and I plan to spend the next two weeks recovering from all that work!

[Mandolin Picker]

Did the in-place upgrade followed by the clean install of Windows 10. I have issues with the 'phone home features' of Windows 10, so we disconnected it from the Internet (my router is not nearly as busy as it was right after the clean install before we got everything turned off). With that, we also disable networking and virus scan. Lastly, we installed 'Classic Shell' for the familiar look and feel of Windows 7. After all of the that, it runs really well. Not sure if it is due to the upgraded programming in Win 10, all of the networking stuff turned off, or a combination of both. We just use the system for recording with Sonar X3 ,and use MS Office for work related stuff. Everything else we do on our Linux box (Using Linux Mint). Very happy with this arrangement.

[Geoff Grace]

I haven't upgraded to either one yet, but need to do so. In the case of Windows 10, I'm trying to clean up my C: drive as much as possible so I can image it before doing an in-place upgrade from Windows 7 (I know a clean install is best, but I just don't want to re-install all my other programs). Meanwhile over in Mac-land, although I can't update my desktop I do have a relatively recent MacBook Pro. But, in the reviews page on El Capitan, I see more 1 start than 5 star reviews (ouch!) and I think NI recommends against upgrading.

 

What say you?

My household's lone PC is staying on Windows 7 because of privacy concerns regarding Windows 10 that were raised in some threads here awhile back.

 

As for El Capitan, Native Instruments has solved its problems. As long as you're using the latest versions of both the OS and apps, you should be fine. However, there are a number of other companies who have asked users to wait to upgrade; so you may want to check in with any other manufacturers before taking the plunge. Sweetwater has a list of compatibility info—last updated on your birthday—here:

 

El Capitan: Mac OS X 10.11 Compatibility Information

 

I'm still waiting it out with Yosemite.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Mandolin Picker]

My household's lone PC is staying on Windows 7 because of privacy concerns regarding Windows 10 that were raised in some threads here awhile back.

 

Be careful. MS has started pushing out updates to Win 7 and Win 8+ that are designed to collect the same data as in windows 10. They are being touted as Essential Security Updates so as to fly under the radar.

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/microsoft-accused-of-adding-spy-features-to-windows-7-8/

 

 

[AlamoJoe]

I'm an antique. Still using Vista and an Intel 2 Core. I've upgraded power supplies and video and audio cards. Everything still works. I use a outboard backup for important stuff.

It's not because I'm stubborn. It's because I'm poor.

[Geoff Grace]

 

Be careful. MS has started pushing out updates to Win 7 and Win 8+ that are designed to collect the same data as in windows 10. They are being touted as Essential Security Updates so as to fly under the radar.

 

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/08/microsoft-accused-of-adding-spy-features-to-windows-7-8/

Thanks Mandolin Picker.

 

Someone posted about that here at SSS some months ago. (Was that you?)

 

I wound up uninstalling the updates the article warned about, and stopped updating the PC altogether.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Etienne Rambert]

My take? Don't do it. Don't switch.

 

I had a Toshiba Click 2 hybrid laptop. http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/...9-449882-4.jpg

 

After Windows 10 was installed, I had no touch screen capability. The tablet half of my computer was dead. The computer half ran slower than Windows Vista. I had to wait forever to wait for simple tasks like finding files. I had no idea where a control icon would show up or if it would even show up at all. None of the big shops could fix it.

 

So now the good news: I bought a new hybrid,

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/21483...-of-thing.html

 

LOVE IT! And the even better news, the Click 2 the big repair centers couldn't repair - my wife's nephew could. So I now have 2 fully-functioning hybrids running 8.1. I also have a fully functioning Toshi Satellite laptop I use for heavy lifting at work on W7.0.

 

W10 will not get near any of my computers I promise you that.

 

**** you Microsoft!

 

UPDATE: Tried again. Windows 10 still blows.

 

http://news.softpedia.com/news/users...r-490080.shtml

[Mudgel]

I did an in place upgrade to Win 10 x64 Pro from Win 8.1 update 1, pretty much a couple of weeks after it was released.

 

 

 

So far I've not encountered anything that steers me toward doing a fresh install. It runs very smooth and everything seems to have a bit of a fresh feel about it. I resolved that if nothing goes crazy, by the end of the year I will delete the Windows.old folder and reclaim several gigs of space. I've not had any software or drivers tha have failed. In all honesty is don't remember an easier upgrade nor a more stable first public release OS and I've been with Windows since Win 3.0 (Amiga before that).

 

 

 

All the DAWs I use, Samplitude X2, PT 12.3, Studio One 3.1, Sonar Platinum JP, are at least as stable as they've ever been if not more so. I tend to think that the audio improvements in Win 10 have somehow made the OS audio subsystems and DAWs much more compatible with one another. Noël Borthwick the CTO from Cakewalk has spoken at length about their communications with MS about audio developments in Win 10 and it seems there's been a greater openness between MS and developers which has resulted in significant improvements. None that I (as a lay person) could explain, but I sure can feel the results as I work in audio. Regardless the DAW.

 

 

 

 

[Anderton]

Thank you Mike! And welcome to the forum. I've always appreciated your insights over at the SONAR forum.

 

The most encouraging thing I've heard from you and others is that a fresh install isn't required.

 

Hmmm...I think I know how I'll be spending my long weekend...

[Phil O'Keefe]

Well if you have to do it, a long weekend is a good time to do it.

 

Man do I ever hate doing OS / software installations - mojo sent!

[Anderton]

Well if I don't have to do a clean install and start over from scratch, the concept becomes MUCH more appealing. And then I'll be able to use a touchscreen with SONAR!

[Mandolin Picker]

And the hits just keep on coming - and not very good hits for Microsoft and Windows 10. Apparently the fall update of Windows 10 (Build Version 1511) has a nasty habit of uninstalling programs it doesn't like. Oh, and it doesn't tell you first. And if you reinstal the program it works just fine. Over at ghacks.com, a pretty concise article on what the latest update is doing (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/24/bew...automatically/).

 

Don't know if it coincidence, but Microsoft removed its Media Creation Tool for Windows Build 10586 on November 22, requiring you to use only Windows Update to download and install the software. That was replaced with Build 10240 from July. Then it was placed back on the servers for download yesterday (24 November).

 

For those with Home versions of Windows 10, you have no choice but to accept any update Microsoft spits out (unless you pull the internet plug on your Windows machine).

[Ernest Buckley]

I`m staying put…. running 10.7.5 on my iMac and everything works. Why fuss around?

[Anderton]

And the hits just keep on coming - and not very good hits for Microsoft and Windows 10. Apparently the fall update of Windows 10 (Build Version 1511) has a nasty habit of uninstalling programs it doesn't like. Oh' date=' and it doesn't tell you first. And if you reinstal the program it works just fine. Over at ghacks.com, a pretty concise article on what the latest update is doing (http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/24/bew...automatically/).

 

Don't know if it coincidence, but Microsoft removed its Media Creation Tool for Windows Build 10586 on November 22, requiring you to use only Windows Update to download and install the software. That was replaced with Build 10240 from July. Then it was placed back on the servers for download yesterday (24 November).

 

For those with Home versions of Windows 10, you have no choice but to accept any update Microsoft spits out (unless you pull the internet plug on your Windows machine).

 

The element of variability is both the biggest strength AND biggest weakness. I've seen this to a lesser extent with SONAR's rolling updates - of course it doesn't have the power to mess with your system, so that's not an issue. But it's unavoidable that when introducing new features, there will be new bugs and that's the weakness. However, this is also where the strength comes in...fixes can happen quickly, and having new features when they become available rather than waiting a year or whatever for a "big update" is welcome.

 

I suspect it's going to take a few more months before Windows 10 is nailed down completely, and then after that, things will be generally okay but there will be hiccups, some significant, especially with third-party software. SONAR gets around this by having a very painless rollback process, but Windows a little different because it affects every area of what you do.

 

The fact that you can roll back from Windows 10 is encouraging. I would probably wait longer if that wasn't the case.

 

[Anderton]

I`m staying put…. running 10.7.5 on my iMac and everything works. Why fuss around?

 

Well, 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) works great on my desktop, but now several programs won't run. Eventually you'll go to a web site and it won't load because you'll get a message like "your browser is not supported, you need a new browser" except no browser will support the system you're running...like what happened with my dual G5, which otherwise works fine. So while I totally understand wanting to stay put - and a lot of times, I wish I could (iOS 9, anyone?) - eventually the companies that make this stuff want you to give them more money.

 

Apple's approach is "You need to buy new hardware." Microsoft's is "you need to purchase add-ons for your operating system." Both have the same goal...

 

 

[Mandolin Picker]

The fact that you can roll back from Windows 10 is encouraging. I would probably wait longer if that wasn't the case.

 

Unless you are using the home version, in which case you can only revert back to the original Windows OS you were using (7 or 8.1). You can't stop the updates from coming short of unplugging from the 'net (which is what I did, for this reason and others). To make matters worse, they really don't tell you what the updates do, what files they affect, etc. Which means even if you are running Windows 10 profession, you don't know how an update will affect your machine.

 

You are right that eventually it will likely settle down, but even when that happens, I'll be watching before doing anything.

[thankyou]

My Mac Mini is still on 10.8.5, and I can't remember what my Macbook is running, but it's several years older. I've had the once bitten, twice shy reaction to OS upgrades. I despise Adobe and their Flash updates.

[Ernest Buckley]

Eventually you'll go to a web site and it won't load because you'll get a message like "your browser is not supported, you need a new browser" except no browser will support the system you're running...like what happened with my dual G5, which otherwise works fine. So while I totally understand wanting to stay put - and a lot of times, I wish I could (iOS 9, anyone?) - eventually the companies that make this stuff want you to give them more money.

 

Apple's approach is "You need to buy new hardware." Microsoft's is "you need to purchase add-ons for your operating system." Both have the same goal...

 

 

I get that message whenever I go to youtube but I just keep clicking away and it works… (knock on wood).

 

Its funny, I`ve had this MacBook Pro since 2011 and my iMac from around the same time… I don`t recall ever upgrading the OS… the only software thats glitchy is Finale. MOTU Digital Performer quits on me from time to time but that seems to happen no matter what OS I`m using. For some reason, Ableton LIVE and REASON are rock solid.

 

Go figure...

[Mandolin Picker]

The latest update from Microsoft for Windows 10 is still being talked about, and none of it good. There is a nice article over at "The Register" (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/26/microsoft_renamed_data_slurper_reinserted_windows_10/). It seems the bug that affected the latest update was specific to 3rd party data monitoring software, including Spybot and CCleaner and disabling Cisco’s VPN software.

 

The second thing it did was change the name of the original tracking services called DiagTrack, or the Diagnostics Tracking Service (and they included it in Windows 8.1 update). Well, after thinking it had been removed, it returned in the latest update as "Connected User Experiences and Telemetry Service" and has to be disabled manually through the Control Panel.

 

Not a long article, but worth reading.

 

 

[Anderton]

Thanks for keeping us updated...fortunately your updates don't alter my computer's performance

[UstadKhanAli]

 

I get that message whenever I go to youtube but I just keep clicking away and it works… (knock on wood).

 

Its funny, I`ve had this MacBook Pro since 2011 and my iMac from around the same time… I don`t recall ever upgrading the OS… the only software thats glitchy is Finale. MOTU Digital Performer quits on me from time to time but that seems to happen no matter what OS I`m using. For some reason, Ableton LIVE and REASON are rock solid.

 

Go figure...

 

There's a pretty big difference between your four year old computer and a G5 that Craig is mentioning.

 

I am running a Mac Pro 1,1 with OS 10.6.8, and it's starting to get challenging to "freeze" everything and keep everything running, and this is a newer computer than a G5, although it's still ten years old or close to it.

[Anderton]

I am running a Mac Pro 1,1 with OS 10.6.8, and it's starting to get challenging to "freeze" everything and keep everything running, and this is a newer computer than a G5, although it's still ten years old or close to it.

 

That's the same setup as my desktop computer and yes...it's getting very difficult to just keep it going. I guess as long as all I do with it is run OpenOffice, I'll be okay for now.

 

 

[rasputin1963]

I D/L'd and installed WINDOWS 10 x64 the day it became available back in July. I know it's now fashionable to knock it, but I really cannot... It has served me well, what can I say.

 

There are two or three ancient little software proggies I had from the late 1990's that no longer work, but that's not the end of the world.

 

Any critiques I might have are minor, such as:

 

I can't get it to go into HIBERNATE mode

 

When it's in SLEEP mode, it always turns itself back on via a "wake-up" that I do not as yet understand...

 

My desktop icons are always disappearing... even when I expressly click dialogues that insist they not do so; don't know wazzup widdat.

 

When a program crashes, Windows assiduously sends up this very concerned choice of DEBUG PROGRAM? And when you click "Yes" they've got some kind of Brooklyn Bridge they want you to pay for. And when you install a third-party freeware debugger, WINDOWS can't find it to let you use it.

 

 

But as always, as soon as I get ANY new OS, I always immediately turn off all its "eye candy" and bells and whistles, because they are draws on CPU and RAM... As is always the case with Windows, there are third party proggies that do things better than the native media players, image viewers, shell/folder integerations, etc. that they provide default.

 

Cakewalk SONAR Pro X3 works great. Though, as I have griped before, the program is at the mercy of every VST plugin you install, and crashes if a plugin misbehaves even slightly. When it crashes, WINDOWS asks you DEBUG PROGRAM? then sends you into butt-f*ck no-man's land if you say yes.

 

I also have the vague feeling-- which I cannot prove or cure, however--- that Windows 10 is not leveraging correctly the huge amount of RAM I have installed. It sometimes seems starved for RAM, even when I think my installed RAM chips are surely quite adequate for the task. But I'm too computer-stupid to know how to fix this.

[Ernest Buckley]

 

There's a pretty big difference between your four year old computer and a G5 that Craig is mentioning.

 

I am running a Mac Pro 1,1 with OS 10.6.8, and it's starting to get challenging to "freeze" everything and keep everything running, and this is a newer computer than a G5, although it's still ten years old or close to it.

 

Yeah, I purchased a G5 in 2005 and the damn thing sounded like a 747 at takeoff. What a lousy ass machine… Then I got the iMac and there was no comparison.