Solo Gigs

[senorblues]

Dave, I used the word "professional" as a term that should indicate to you that the things you talk about are a given if you describe yourself that way. Having said that, I do think there will be times where you may want to use that term when you politely decline their generous offer to play at their restaurant for two hours and in return you will receive . . . a $25 dinner voucher! You'd think they'd get few takers, but in fact they have a regular rotation that fills their calendar twice a week months in advance. I just checked, and they're now suggesting a $5 donation at the door.

 

 

[Vito Corleone]

Dave' date=' I used the word "professional" as a term that should indicate to you that the things you talk about are a given if you describe yourself that way. [/quote']

 

I know. I'm just saying that simply "describing" yourself as anything isn't going to mean bupkis.

 

Having said that, I do think there will be times where you may want to use that term when you politely decline their generous offer to play at their restaurant for two hours and in return you will receive . . . a $25 dinner voucher! You'd think they'd get few takers, but in fact they have a regular rotation that fills their calendar twice a week months in advance.

 

 

Yes, well welcome to the world of supply and demand. The only way to get around that? Have a product rare enough and/or in demand enough that it warrants a higher fee.

 

[senorblues]

I'll keep that in mind . . . .

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah....well....

 

I dunno what you think the answer is or what it should be. You seem to want people here to tell you "sure! play piano instead of guitar! that alone should be worth 100 bucks more a night to the venue owner!" Sorry, that isn't the answer.

 

The only answer is the same answer that has ALWAYS existed since the very first guy who ever wanted to get paid for banging a stick on a rock: put more butts in the seats than the other guys. Keep people in the joint longer. Be more entertaining than they are. Sell more drinks/food. That's all the venue owner cares about. He doesn't care what gear you use or how long you've played it or whether you're technically a better player or more professional than the guy who had the gig last week. None of that matters unless it puts more money in his till.

 

The answer to THAT question is simple. The REAL question with the HARD answer is: do you have the ability/desire to do what needs to be done to achieve that goal?

 

No one can answer that but you.

[Vito Corleone]

There used to be a lot of "one man band" keyboard acts playing to tracks or sequences doing the small casino circuit here in Nevada back in the 90s/00s. The novelty seems to have worn off.

 

People seem to either want a solo/duo who is doing much more of everything live or, if they are going to listen to karaoke, they'd rather sing themselves. But I'm sure some of these guys are still working somewhere?

 

You probably can't find much of that on YouTube because most of it wasn't very good and/or predated the use of smartphones and YouTube.

 

This is very typical of what they would do:

 

[video=youtube;nonuvhrDEEE]

 

 

[senorblues]

Well that's a stereotype negative example. I don't suppose you've encountered something where guys were "doing much more of everything live". You know damn well I'm looking for the latter, not the former. Give me a break.

[Vito Corleone]

Well that's a stereotype negative example. I don't suppose you've encountered something where guys were "doing much more of everything live". You know damn well I'm looking for the latter' date=' not the former. Give me a break.[/quote']

 

I'm not trying to harsh you here. There's just not a lot of middle ground when you're a solo act. Either you're essentially singing karaoke to a buttload of tracks, or you're just doing the piano/vocal lounge thing. How "doing much more of everything live" can there be? You've only got two hands. There's what the guys do with the loops. But that doesn't really seem to interest you.

 

But the limits are only your talents and your imagination, really. That's why I say do an audition. Figure out a formula for you that you think blows away the guitar/vocal guys and go impress someone at a venue and go for it. Beyond that, I'm really not sure what you're looking for or what answer you want.

 

And I do think most of the solo-to-tracks keyboard guys have played that circuit out. Like so much of everything else, the bad stuff becomes the expectation and then the gigs dry up. I've talked about this before. When I was in my 20s, a sign that said "Live Music" was something that drew you into a place. Now I think it drives most 20 somethings away. They've seen way too much bad "Live Music" over the years.

 

There's a guy up here in Tahoe who has had a house gig at one of the casinos for over 20 years now. "Arty the One Man Party". He's very good. But he's still just "singing karaoke" over a bunch of tracks and playing a small amount of piano. But he's a good singer, has a good set list and is very charismatic and entertaining. He makes good money doing it and is still doing it while the lesser guys have all been marketed out. I couldn't find much in the way of any video of him at all on YouTube except a couple of things like this. I guess since he's got a house gig he doesn't need any promo. So again, it's really less what or how you do it but what you do WITH it.

 

[video=youtube;M0LZzNry8fw]

[senorblues]

 

[Vito Corleone]

 

Is there a question or comment that goes along with this or am I just supposed to guess?

 

[moogerfooger]

I stopped using backing tracks years ago and just play guitar, piano and sing. I do just as well with out them. its all about putting the song over, and being entertaining, people are easily amused but can tell when your phoning it in. my MO -- play great songs and do them well with energy and passion. works every time.

[Vito Corleone]

I stopped using backing tracks years ago and just play guitar' date=' piano and sing. I do just as well with out them. its all about putting the song over, and being entertaining, people are easily amused but can tell when your phoning it in. my MO -- play great songs and do them well with energy and passion. works every time. [/quote']

 

I think that, at the end of the day, it really all boils down to the fact that you're selling yourself. As musicians, we'd like to think it's all about the music and our degree of technical skill but it's really all about our souls and our passion. The instruments we play or how well we play them or the songs we choose are really all nothing more than tools employed to help us connect ourselves to the audience.

 

Any ​artist is really only expressing and selling himself. The art form --- whether it's singing or playing piano or painting or writing a book --- is simply the vehicle through which we express ourselves.

 

And as a solo performer, it becomes even more so about "just yourself". In a band you can find a spot as just one cog in the wheel and build something engaging as a collective, but as a solo act, 'yourself' is all you got. And the great performers are all generally charismatic, engaging, or at least very-highly interesting people that you'd like to just hang out and spend time with as much as listen to them play music.

 

What songs we do? What instruments we play? That's all just the tools we employ to help us sell ourselves. It's the energy and the passion and our souls that we are putting out there on display and in the marketplace. Either you have that or you don't. Mick Jagger doesn't have to be a great technical singer----he'd be an entertaining and engaging and successful bartender or real estate broker or whatever. Miles Davis would have had something interesting to say that would have reached people had he been a painter or a writer just as well.

 

The guys who have "it" will draw audiences and make money doing almost whatever in almost any fashion. The less of "it" you have, the more it becomes about song choice and great sounding gear and tracks and all the other stuff that brings us all closer to simply being jukeboxes which, of course, have no "it" at all.​​​

[senorblues]

From another discussion a couple days ago about fewer band members - less money. You said:

 

"11-02-2015, 03:35 PM Maybe try to explain to him that yes--you are, for the time being anyway--now a 3 piece. But in order to deliver the same level of quality and entertainment to the audience (which is clearly evident by the response and results) it takes more work from each of you. He isn't getting shorted in any way, and you're all working extra hard to make sure of this.

 

Probably won't work, but what the hell.... "

 

You do conclude that It probably won't work in their situation, but I wonder why the same thinking doesn't apply to what I'm doing, and what I suspect at least a few other keyboard players are doing as well. The link I posted above contains music files that more than one venue owner has assumed were a recording of a band. Yet in this discussion, you don't seem to be willing to apply that same reasoning to my situation.

 

 

 

 

[Vito Corleone]

From another discussion a couple days ago about fewer band members - less money. You said:

 

"11-02-2015, 03:35 PM Maybe try to explain to him that yes--you are, for the time being anyway--now a 3 piece. But in order to deliver the same level of quality and entertainment to the audience (which is clearly evident by the response and results) it takes more work from each of you. He isn't getting shorted in any way, and you're all working extra hard to make sure of this.

 

Probably won't work, but what the hell.... "

 

You do conclude that It probably won't work in their situation, but I wonder why the same thinking doesn't apply to what I'm doing, and what I suspect at least a few other keyboard players are doing as well. The link I posted above contains music files that more than one venue owner has assumed were a recording of a band. Yet in this discussion, you don't seem to be willing to apply that same reasoning to my situation.

 

 

 

 

Like I said, it probably won't work. I was just trying to give him a well-worded argument to work with. But if the guy only wants to pay by the man and not take into account how much effort each has put in or what the end result sounds like, then why would it be any different whether you're just solo piano or sound like a full band?

 

But like I told Jeff in that other thread---there's certainly no harm in pleading your case and asking. And hopefully not all venue owners think alike.

 

In ​Jeff's case, he's talking about a clubowner who has already tried to cut his pay because he has fewer member so that appeal seems unlikely. In your case, you're complaining that people are working for $25 dinner vouchers. So it doesn't seem likely to me in that situation either.

 

But all you can do is try, right? ​​​ Who knows....maybe he'll throw in dessert.

 

 

[senorblues]

Did I tell you that the $25 dinner voucher was typical of this market? It was a single extreme example, Dave.

 

Why is it that you pretty much always post things that need correction? Keeps things going for you though, doesn't it.

 

It's my thread, but you can have the last word. Please try not to take advantage and say something provocative.

[Vito Corleone]

Let me put all that another way too: Jeff's situation was about trying to keep the pay up to where it was because he delivers the same overall results he did before. Makes sense to argue that if a 3-piece band is delivering the same results to the client as a 4-piece, then why get paid less. You seem to be saying that just because you do more than some other solo act that you should get more. Well, that's going to apply ONLY if the 'more you do' delivers more results. But if there's nothing more in the client's till at the end of the night than he gets with other solo acts.....

 

You also mentioned trying to do with a one-man thing what bands do and getting the same (or maybe even half) their pay. OK. That's possible. That's what I was talking about with the one-man band stuff I posted. Most of that whole circuit started back in the 90s when that sort of technology first came on board and a lot of venues started replacing bands with solos and duos for less money. I did that circuit for awhile myself in a duo back in the 90s. We had big tracks, big sound, and tried to fill casino dance floors. Like I said, I think MOST of that has died out as people kind of see through the soul-less-ness of all the tracks. They've either gone back to bands or downgraded to DJs. Or do karaoke. A lot of it died because so much of it was like the first guy I linked. But some guys like my friend Arty are still able to pull it off. But I see VERY little of that going on anywhere anymore.

 

So my guess there is that you might still be able to find some opportunities like that, but honestly, it's an idea that has already been worked through 20 years ago. But I also don't know jack squat about Maine, so I'm only telling you what I know based on my experiences in California and Nevada. Opportunities may still exist there.

[Vito Corleone]

Did I tell you that the $25 dinner voucher was typical of this market? It was a single extreme example, Dave.

 

Why is it that you pretty much always post things that need correction? Keeps things going for you though, doesn't it.

 

It's my thread, but you can have the last word. Please try not to take advantage and say something provocative.

 

~sigh~ I can only reply based on the information given me. You didn't say it was Atypical either. Since it was the only situation you mentioned, it was the only one I COULD address, wasn't it? Maybe if you gave better information no one would ever need "correcting"

 

 

Look, you want advice, and I'm trying to help you out. You don't like the answers? I can't help you with that. Keep asking and maybe you'll eventually get the answers you want from someone.

 

 

 

 

 

​

[senorblues]

Do you really think I'm posting this so I can compete with other soloists for dinner? Please stop assuming the worst case scenario.

 

I also thought I made it clear several times that I don't use tracks, yet you continue to use that format as a negative example.

 

And I'm not asking for your advice. I'm looking for examples of keyboard players who are using a format similar to mine.

 

(Give hime the last post . . . he takes two. . . . . and they need fixing, as usual.)

[Vito Corleone]

Do you really think I'm posting this so I can compete with other soloists for dinner? Please stop assuming the worst case scenario.

 

You posted about one situation and I addressed that. I didn't assume it was typical or atypical nor do I care. I addressed it only to help make my point that if the goal of the venue owners is to pay as little as possible, I don't believe that simply telling them "you do more work" is going to make a difference.

 

But maybe I'm wrong about that. ​​That'd be great.

 

I also thought I made it clear several times that I don't use tracks, yet you continue to use that format as a negative example.

 

I've always used the term "tracks" broadly to include sequences, samples, rhythms, arpeggios and everything else not being played live. Frankly the audience doesn't generally know or care about the source of the un-played parts, nor do venue owners, so in the context of this discussion, I don't think the source matters.

 

I don't mean to talk about them negatively or positively. I have no opinion on their use one way or another personally. I think it's all good as long as it works for you. I'm simply offering my observations on how the market has reacted to them over the years in solo/duo situations of which I do have some experience.

And I'm not asking for your advice. I'm looking for examples of keyboard players who are using a format similar to mine.

 

I gave you two examples. One was not so good, but quite typical (which is one reason why the market for them has decreased, IMO.) Another where the tracks (or whatever you call them) themselves aren't necessarily any better probably but ​the guy is having good success with it. At least if one considers having Charles Barkley and a bunch of other sports figures on stage with you, Maria Bartiromo singing along, a packed room and a 20+ year residency to be "success". Others may have a different definition.

 

I'm not ​sure what more you want. Your recordings sound fine to me. How much "more" of anything you might need? Depends on the gig. If you're trying to fill a dance floor, you'll need a decent PA to pump the drums and bass through at the very least. If it's a more casual environment, where volume isn't a big deal and dancing isn't much of a concern, then you'll need less.

 

Whether your entire package as you have it now will get you more pay than other solo acts, or get you gigs currently held by full bands? I can't tell you that. No one can. Certainly not just based on listening to audio recordings. Go out and try to get those gig and see what happens is all I can say at this point.

 

 

[senorblues]

Don't want to be guilty of trying to resurrect my thread, but I just discovered this guy yesterday and what he's doing with keys and vocals is mind blowing - to me, at least. Skip the discussion and go to 1:15:

 

And if you like this . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4P_D-vkPEQ

 

Made me rethink the whole "I hate tracks" thing . . . . .