Members Glenn F Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 So, I am looking for a sitka/hog Martin, and noticed there were a couple in stock. The D-16GT: a bit of a surprise. Better than I thought it would be, and the strings weren't exactly fresh. Good volume, and excellent dynamics, probably a function of the scalloped braces. Fingerpicked quite well, too. I actually am in the market for a D-18, but thought I'd better cross the D-16GT off my list before I make a move. I don't particularly care if the back and sides are high-gloss, and I am kinda neutral about the 'Richlite.' What it has in favour over the D-18 (besides being €800 cheaper) is the 1 11/16" nut width modified low oval neck, which is my favourite acoustic neck profile. The sound is very good, but I didn't play it long enough to get a good idea about overtones, etc. On my list of possibles. The D-18E Retro: It felt better, in some ways, in the left hand, but the 1.75" nut width isn't what I am looking for in a dread. The sound was less bright than the D-16GT, but it could be the strings were older. I won't be buying this guitar, though. It is out of my price range. The Gibson J-29: this one was a real surprise. I have never played a Gibson acoustic that said 'TAKE ME HOME NOW!' but this one did. The sound was rich, it had excellent projection and dynamics. Played very easily. Sounded better than the more expensive Gibsons in the room. The issue is, though, I don't want sitka/rosewood, nor do I want a p'up pre-installed. So that one will probably be out. It will sit at the back of my mind for a while though. So, it will come down to either the D-16GT or the new version of the D-18. From reading comparisons on the web, the opinions are mixed whether or not the the D16 is a D18 killer, with a bit of a tendency towards the D-18 being a superior instrument in every way. €800 difference is significant, though. You can get a whole 'nuther gee-tar for that, lol. So, just thought I'd share that. All 3 are excellent guitars, and I would certainly recommend checking them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 My next will be carbon fiber. BTW, I gave away a D18 new in its case some years back. I never have played a D18 I thought was up to the hype people give it. But, same applies to my opinion of Gibson in any model/guise, after 40 years of empty industry hype about them. Even Martins are, in my experience, a hit/miss proposition and certainly not worthy of buying sight-unseen. Have I become picky? I think it's more of an objective evolution from sheer boredom with the entire subject across any brand. Having lost the passion and the risks that come from its subjective fallacies, I'm dead objective now and have dismissed much of the sonic offerings in the field. I'd rather get a good classical or nylon cross-over, a decent synth and create the sounds that I want to hear whenever I want to hear them. Those moments vary and no unplugged guitar will ever fill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted October 24, 2015 Members Share Posted October 24, 2015 I have never tasted a stout beer that I liked... but then again, that could be because I don't like stout beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DreadedFoosa Posted October 25, 2015 Members Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks for the review, I played a number of Martins recently but didn't get a chance to play the 16GT. The D18 was fantastic of course, but i was only playing it for comparison since my preferred budget was around 1000 but preferrably less. The Martins in my price range were very disappointing. The 15 was meh and the road series DRS1 or whatever were truly awful sounding and playing. total bummer. you might try watching guitar center's used website for a d18, seems like i see them on there every few months going for around 1100 to 1200. as an aside, i just got a chance to play an alvarez wy1 with the cedar top. my god what a fantastic guitar. so light too i couldn't believe it. not a dread so might not be your preferred sound but im dying to get one now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 25, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks for the review, I played a number of Martins recently but didn't get a chance to play the 16GT. The D18 was fantastic of course, but i was only playing it for comparison since my preferred budget was around 1000 but preferrably less. The Martins in my price range were very disappointing. The 15 was meh and the road series DRS1 or whatever were truly awful sounding and playing. total bummer. you might try watching guitar center's used website for a d18, seems like i see them on there every few months going for around 1100 to 1200. as an aside, i just got a chance to play an alvarez wy1 with the cedar top. my god what a fantastic guitar. so light too i couldn't believe it. not a dread so might not be your preferred sound but im dying to get one now. Hi, Thanks for the suggestion, but I am in Europe. Perhaps I'll just take an antacid and wait for the GAS to pass, lol. My next will be carbon fiber. BTW, I gave away a D18 new in its case some years back. I never have played a D18 I thought was up to the hype people give it. But, same applies to my opinion of Gibson in any model/guise, after 40 years of empty industry hype about them. Even Martins are, in my experience, a hit/miss proposition and certainly not worthy of buying sight-unseen. Have I become picky? I think it's more of an objective evolution from sheer boredom with the entire subject across any brand. Having lost the passion and the risks that come from its subjective fallacies, I'm dead objective now and have dismissed much of the sonic offerings in the field. I'd rather get a good classical or nylon cross-over, a decent synth and create the sounds that I want to hear whenever I want to hear them. Those moments vary and no unplugged guitar will ever fill them. I am the opposite. There are few material things in this world that I love more than a really good solid-wood acoustic guitar. I have 3 Martins at the moment (D-28, OM-21(2012 model), 000-M), and they are all excellent exemplars of their respective models. It took me a while to see/hear what the fuss was about Martin guitars, but once I got one that had 'that sound,' I was hooked. It is the sound heard on countless recordings, and just picking one up and playing it resonates within my soul. For a long time in my yout, the acoustic guitar was my equivalent of Linus' security blanket, and for a couple of years when I was homeless, my only possession. I went through a bunch of Chinese imports--with the exception of the Eastman E10D (which I am selling to put toward a D-18), none of them particularly impressed me, and were sold. They seemed to be well-built, but they were lacking something or things that ranged from the obvious to the more subtle. My hands and ears can tell when corners have been cut, either in workmanship or materials. None of them came even close to my Martin 000-M, which wasn't even one their higher-end models. That little guitar is amazing, believe me. So, different strokes for different folks. I love playing electric guitar, too, but my most expensive electric is a Gibson SG Classic, which cost me €868 a couple of years ago. I could never see myself paying 2 grand + for an electric guitar. For an acoustic, that is +/- €400 where things start to get my attention. I also have a lot of soft-synths and sample-based instruments, and though my keyboard skills have languished since I took up the guitar many, many years ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, I can still play. None of that even comes close to the joy I feel when I pick up a beautiful acoustic guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted October 25, 2015 Members Share Posted October 25, 2015 When I bought my D-16GT I compared it directly with the previous incarnation of the Standard D-18 which even Chris Martin (CFM the 4th) himself described as a "dog" so the choice was simple: buy the D-16GT for about half the price. I've since had a chance to try the updated D-18 and would give it the nod. The X brace is forward shifted, giving it more bass than the previous D-18 and the neck is now shared with the Performace models which have a slimmer profile but the FB width at the nut is 1-3/4" and the string spacing at the bridge is 2-3/16" which you claim to not like. I like that they gave it tort binding and open back tuners though. What I really don't like about my D-16GT is the Spanish Cedar neck; the wood is very soft and capo and string winder use have not been kind. I'm not a fan of the mini Ping tuners either. To be fair though, I think they may both have some sort of dovetail joint - as opposed to my late model D-16GT's mortise/tenon neck joint. Martin began using their CNC to fashion a "simple" dovetail within the last couple of years. Drifting OT, if you happen to have a little extra money and don't care about the name on the headstock try a Bourgeios. A friend has a 00 "Poor boy" and it's essentially a Martin with a bolt on neck but made in a 2 man shop up in Maine so there's more attention to detail. I've also heard great things about Collings guitars (which are made in Texas) but I'd kinda sorta loyal to my home Pennsylvania manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Misha Posted October 25, 2015 Members Share Posted October 25, 2015 I would like to have this one: http://www.compositeacoustics.com/index.cfm/guitars/the-cargo/the-cargo-with-electronics/solid-metallic-charcoal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 25, 2015 Members Share Posted October 25, 2015 You might also want to try playing a Larrivée D-03 (http://www.thomann.de/gb/larrivee_d_03.htm) or D-02 Bluegrass Special (http://www.thomann.de/gb/larrivee_d_02_bluegrass_special.htm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted October 26, 2015 Members Share Posted October 26, 2015 They're different animals. I looked at the D-03 which I felt was superior to the D-16GT but the Martin had the edge in tone. Surprisingly, the guitar with a similar that has grabbed my ear is a Taylor. the 418e Grand Orchestra with ovangkul back & sides in particular. I know: not a dread but it's a sexy beast with just as much rumble, if not more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 26, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 26, 2015 Aggggh! Someone nearby is selling a J-29 for €1,200 2nd hand mint, they're new @ €1649, and no shop I've contacted will budge off that price. I am seriously tempted, though I want a sitka/hog (which, of course, will still be on my GAS list even if I buy the J-29). He is holding it for me for a couple of days to think over. Buying a Gibson sight-unseen with no right to return it makes me a little queasy. Kwak, good to see you, hope you are keeping well. I appreciate your input on the 16GT. I don't use capos a lot, but I do use them. That is definitely a strike against the 16GT. As for the nut width of the D-18, 1.75" is not my favourite, but it is probably quite close to the neck on my OM-21 which I think is also the same config, including the Performance neck. So, it is not a deal breaker, but my favourite acoustic profile is the low modified oval 1.11/16". The new D-18 is €2,295 smackeroos, and while I can certainly afford it, I am not certain I want to. I have 6 excellent steel string acoustics (not counting the Eastman E10D I am selling) and one wonderful nylon. I look around, I pull them out and play them, and then ask myself: "are you insane?" Maybe I should just take a couple of TUMS for the GAS and play my other guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 26, 2015 Members Share Posted October 26, 2015 So are Gibsons but that's what the OP is GASing for. He's looking for a non-electrified dread in the price range of a D16 or D18. Either Larrivée would do nicely IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted October 27, 2015 Members Share Posted October 27, 2015 I'm glad to see you're still around too Glenn. I feel the same way about mine but the thrill is in the chase after all, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted October 29, 2015 Members Share Posted October 29, 2015 Hi, Thanks for the suggestion, but I am in Europe. Perhaps I'll just take an antacid and wait for the GAS to pass, lol. I am the opposite. There are few material things in this world that I love more than a really good solid-wood acoustic guitar. I have 3 Martins at the moment (D-28, OM-21(2012 model), 000-M), and they are all excellent exemplars of their respective models. It took me a while to see/hear what the fuss was about Martin guitars, but once I got one that had 'that sound,' I was hooked. It is the sound heard on countless recordings, and just picking one up and playing it resonates within my soul. For a long time in my yout, the acoustic guitar was my equivalent of Linus' security blanket, and for a couple of years when I was homeless, my only possession. I went through a bunch of Chinese imports--with the exception of the Eastman E10D (which I am selling to put toward a D-18), none of them particularly impressed me, and were sold. They seemed to be well-built, but they were lacking something or things that ranged from the obvious to the more subtle. My hands and ears can tell when corners have been cut, either in workmanship or materials. None of them came even close to my Martin 000-M, which wasn't even one their higher-end models. That little guitar is amazing, believe me. So, different strokes for different folks. I love playing electric guitar, too, but my most expensive electric is a Gibson SG Classic, which cost me €868 a couple of years ago. I could never see myself paying 2 grand + for an electric guitar. For an acoustic, that is +/- €400 where things start to get my attention. I also have a lot of soft-synths and sample-based instruments, and though my keyboard skills have languished since I took up the guitar many, many years ago, in a galaxy far, far, away, I can still play. None of that even comes close to the joy I feel when I pick up a beautiful acoustic guitar. I can't disagree about the sound of a well made wood guitar. I have one that can be described that way. But, my desire to care for such an instrument has waned to the point of apathy towards them. Give me a decent sounding all weather interceptor plastic guitar and I'll be just as happy. For what I do with a guitar a fine wood example is overkill in every aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2015 There is that, but, at this point, I find the chase a bit taxing, and my wife just wants it to be over. I've decided to order the D-16GT, and it should be here today. I was, surprisingly, offered a discount on it from one of the major retailers here in Germany, so I thought I'd check it out. They won't budge on the D-18. If I decide against the 16GT and get the D-18, it will be THE LAST GUITAR THAT I BUY. I try to say that with a straight face. If I really, really love the 16GT, I figure I can use one of my other guitars for capoed songs. My little 000-M is great for capoing. When I play 'Scarborough Fair' the notes come through clearly and quite loud. It is hard to believe that that little guitar's bracing isn't scalloped. But, we shall see what we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 29, 2015 Ok, the 16GT showed up. It's ok, but didn't impress me enough to keep it. I find it a bit too bright, and I can only imagine what Elixirs would do to it. One thing I will say in its favour is that it is pretty easy to play, even with .013s on it. It is going back, though. Now I have to decide on whether to spend around another grand on the D-18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted October 30, 2015 Members Share Posted October 30, 2015 We've heard what you've done with your Goodall. It is not overkill. Personally, I think that the whole carbon fiber travel guitar thing is a niche - not an option for downsizing. I won't even look at carbon fiber bicycles. Too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 30, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 30, 2015 Thanks for the suggestion, but every Larrivee I've tried has been a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted October 31, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 31, 2015 Soooo.... As I mentioned above, I went for the 16GT. After retrieving my Eastman E10D from the cellar, I did a direct comparison between it and the 16GT. The Eastman blew it out of the water. No contest, at all. I may have to re-evaluate my plans, here. My E10D is for sale, but the price difference between this and a Marty D-18 is ridiculous, and, as I am getting no bites for the Eastman (though I am selling it at a fair price), I think I might just be better off keeping it and abandoning my plans for the D-18. Of course, that is an itch that will bug me, but €2,295 is a lot of money. It's really hard to believe the E10D is in the same league as my non Pac-Rim guitars, but it is. Maybe it's time for a Gibson acoustic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 Well, being that I've had mine for 5 years now I can't really disagree with you, but I'd caution you against any hasty judgments and give it at least 6 months to play it in (so that it opens up), find the right strings for it, the right pick and get a feel for it. I will say that mine did not like Elixirs OR any flavor of light gauge strings. The former were just "meh" and the latter didn't have enough "oomph" to drive the top. So far my preferred D'Addorio EJ17 phosphor bronze medium gauge strings have been adequate but I have yet to try anything else really. Even with mediums though, I've found that it's easy to overdrive the top so it takes an even hand. It is NOT as robust as a Standard series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted November 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 I appreciate your take, but our first impressions were really not favourable, and as I already have a killer spruce/hog dread, it wouldn't be the correct path for me. My wife said that it lacked any character other than 'loud.' Also, whatever I get will be: THE LAST GUITAR! I know, I know....... I've not had GAS for an electric for a long, long, time. Acoustics are more problematic, but I think I am almost there. I don't see the D-18 blowing the Eastman out of the water. I have to give it some serious thought. I want my last guitar to be special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guildfire Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 I'm by no means a Martin expert but of the ones I have played the MMV models at Guitar Center had the best "bang for the buck" sound compared to the 16GT and even some higher level models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Idunno Posted November 1, 2015 Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 At GC and Sam Ash today messing around. Played the CEO7, or something like that. Not impressed. Boxy. Then I played the D-18. Meh. The D15M sounded much better. I could get real comfortable with that one. Then I played a Cordoba Model E and was very impressed. It made the steel string guitars sound meek. Ended up getting a set of D'Addario Pro-Arte' EJ46 hard tension nylon strings. My kid was with me (17) and he banged around on the guitars for a while. He has perfect pitch so he tuned the guitars I played. It was either that or I played out of tune, according to him. Bastid. I wish I had his ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted November 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2015 Well, I have a Taylor 320, which I bought last summer. I was in the market for a D-15M to replace the D-15 I sold, but the prices jumped from about €1,100 to €1,500 almost overnight. I was also thinking of a 000-15SM, but they jumped €300+ as well to almost €1,700. Not worth it, imo. I am not a Taylor fan, but the 320 surprised me, and I got a decent price on it. So, my hog base is covered. I'd put it up against a D-15M anytime. The Gibby J-29 that I played was really, really, good. I don't know if the store got a particularly good unit in, or whether they are, for the most part, properly built. They won't budge on the price, but another will, so I am thinking of going that route. I don't have an acoustic with a pickup, and if there was a J-29 without, I'd probably buy it without hesitation. Again, I should probably take some TUMS and not bother. Hmmmm.... maybe one of those new, souped-up iMacs.......... Hmmmm....... maybe a nice vacation in Ireland. We've been wanting to go sing 'My Lovely Horse' at the Craggy Island Parish House for a while. A man's gotta dream..... EDIT: A souped-up iMac it will be! After discussing it with my wife, she has no issue with me getting a new 'puter, and we'll still go to Ireland. No NGD...... For now...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kwakatak Posted November 4, 2015 Members Share Posted November 4, 2015 I'm by no means a Martin expert but of the ones I have played the MMV models at Guitar Center had the best "bang for the buck" sound compared to the 16GT and even some higher level models. Yup. I discovered the MMV after putting a down payment on my D-16GT. Vastly superior. I would recommend Glenn get another variant of the D-15 but he's got to stop lying to himself about not having GAS. I hate to see somebody in such denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Glenn F Posted November 4, 2015 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2015 Yup. I discovered the MMV after putting a down payment on my D-16GT. Vastly superior. I would recommend Glenn get another variant of the D-15 but he's got to stop lying to himself about not having GAS. I hate to see somebody in such denial. Ha! Guitar GAS is gone for now. The MMV is not available on this side of the pond, anyways. I did order a new 27" iMac, 4.0 GHZ, 16GB RAM, 5k Retina Display, 2 TB Fusion Drive, on Monday. I could get a really nice guitar for that money, but it would still be kinda 'ho-hum, another great guitar.' I already have an abundance in this regard, and my current computer isn't cutting it anymore, at least for recording. So, there is no money for a NGD for the foreseable future. In a way, that's a good thing, since I am only allowed ONE MORE GUITAR, I still have something to look forward to, lol. And speaking of GAS, Kwak, may I suggest you go play a Taylor 320? Even if you're not a Taylor fan (I am not, generally) I think you'd fall in love with it, and have to explain something to your missus, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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