Members nin8185 Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 I just bought a epiphone 1984 reissue explorer that has a pro setup which has 11-49 strings I believe (maybe 10-48). If I decided to drop tune it to drop c which my original band uses and use 11-52 strings will I have to adjust the truss rod or will the drop tune and thicker gauge balance it's self out? I'm aware the intonation may need a slight tweaking. (Towards the stop tail piece?) I may just leave this guitar for standard tuning but I really enjoyed playing it at practice even with the weakened tension (stock strings in drop c)so I'm torn between keeping it's already mint setup in standard or set it up down to my personal style. ( I have 2 other guitars I can switch between as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members badpenguin Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 More than likely, yes you will need to re-adjust the truss rod, and adjust the intonation, and probably recut the nut for the thicker gauge strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 Holy Crap Man ,How hard is it to turn a screw?Feeler guages are fairly in expensive and available at any auto parts store.I realize this is a Fender set up and you have a Gibson but relief is pretty baisc. Check it record the measurement ,restring and retune then check it again.. If it's the same you're good to go. If not a slight turn on the truss rod should put it right. First, check your tuning. Affix a capo at the first fret and depress the sixth string at the last fret. With a feeler gauge, check the gap between the bottom of the string and the top of the 8th fret—see the spec chart below for the proper gap.Adjustment at headstock (allen wrench): Sight down the edge of the fingerboard from behind the headstock, looking toward the body of the instrument. If the neck is too concave (action too high), turn the truss rod nut clockwise to remove excess relief. If the neck is too convex (strings too close to the fingerboard), turn the truss rod nut counter-clockwise to allow the string tension to pull more relief into the neck. Check your tuning, then re-check the gap with the feeler gauge and re-adjust as needed.Adjustment at neck joint (phillips screwdriver): Sight down the edge of the fingerboard from behind the body, looking up toward the headstock of the instrument. If the neck is too concave (action too high), turn the truss rod nut clockwise to remove excess relief. If the neck is too convex (strings too close to the fingerboard), turn the truss rod nut counter-clockwise to allow the string tension to pull more relief into the neck. Check your tuning, then re-check the gap with the feeler gauge and re-adjust as needed.Note: In either case, if you meet excessive resistance when adjusting the truss rod, if your instrument needs constant adjustment, if adjusting the truss rod has no effect on the neck, or if you're simply not comfortable making this type of adjustment yourself, take your instrument to your local Fender Authorized Dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 Do as gardo suggests. Ignore the 20,000 word reply that will follow shortly, its not hard to do. You will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 26, 2015 Members Share Posted September 26, 2015 Is this what's known as a preemtive strike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 More or less as Gardo says/ Every time a guitar comes across my bench (which would be the same as getting a new guitar) I measure everything on the setup - relief, action, nut slots, intonation and possibly pickup pole heights. I have also learned to put a set of calipers on the strings - its amazing that many players don't know whats on their guitar. It takes about ten minutes, I have a little spread sheet (that I have offered to people) that I write it down. Then I decide what to change (if anything) knowing that changing one thing (like relief) will probably chance something else. If you are really happy with the setup and action when you receive it the thing to do is duplicate the tension in the new tuning. D'Addario has a great string tension chart that will help you or you can use something like the Univeral String Tension Calculator (google in both cases). You want to replace each string with one with approximately the same tension. If you do that the relief will not change and action will not change. You may need to file nut slots if you go up more than a few thousands in gauge. You probably will need to tweak the intonation. I'm not really sure what "drop C" is - if its standard tuning down four semi tones you may have some serious trouble getting it with a standard scale guitar - I have a long scale 12 string (26.5) that I tune this way. I keep one acoustic in open C (CGCGCe) which requires heavier strings on the bottom and note that the 2nd is tuned up (great Kottke/Fahey/Cockburn tuning btw). If its something else consult the tension charts. Oh, one thing that I'll add to Gardo's reply, I like somewhere around 0.002 to 0.004 relief on an electric, 0.004 to 0.006 on acoustics. Other technicians have wildly different parameters - those work for me. Not quite 20,000 words but I tried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 An attemp anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members knotty Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 Not you freeman I think you know that.You always try to simplify and explain.Some make it more complex than is necessary and scare the living crap out of novices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 I knew exactly what you meant. Thank you for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 27, 2015 Members Share Posted September 27, 2015 . . . I'm not really sure what "drop C" is - if its standard tuning down four semi tones you may have some serious trouble getting it with a standard scale guitar . . . . . . Not quite 20,000 words but I tried. Wikipedia says "CGCFAD, which can be described as D tuning with a 6th string dropped to C, or drop D tuning transposed down a whole step." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_C_tuning). I tried too but I maxed out at 37 words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 28, 2015 Members Share Posted September 28, 2015 OK - well if it has 11 - 49 (or maybe 10 - 48) and it plays well at concert I don't think the OP is going to be happy with 11 - 52 tuned that low. I'm going to bet that it will need a truss rod adjustment as well as the action. Nut slots should be fine for that small a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 28, 2015 Members Share Posted September 28, 2015 OK - well if it has 11 - 49 (or maybe 10 - 48) and it plays well at concert I don't think the OP is going to be happy with 11 - 52 tuned that low. I'm going to bet that it will need a truss rod adjustment as well as the action. Nut slots should be fine for that small a change. A .048 or .049 at C is going to have about 12 lbs. of tension, about equal to a .038 at E. I had a set of GHS .010-.038 on my Strat copy when I sold it and I could live with it but it was also set up for them. In this case, the feel would probably be similar to a set of .009's at Concert pitch. Either way, a setup will definitely be called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted September 29, 2015 Author Members Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thank you all for the tips on the guitar set up. I will take notes on the current set up when I'm ready to give My guitar it's official drop tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted September 29, 2015 Members Share Posted September 29, 2015 What we need to know if what gauge strings are actually on it (each string) and if you are happy with the way it plays. I also need to know exactly what tuning you will be using (each string) and whether you will change back and forth to concert or leave it there. Based on that we can help you select the gauges that will have the same tension and feel, and won't change the relief (very much). Btw, welcome to HCEG - I kind of forgot my manners there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted September 30, 2015 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2015 Now looking at the bridge i notice there is Not any more room to intonate the G string (slightly sharp even at concert) so i am highly doubting this guitar will intonate well drop down to CGCFAD. I will try and flip the saddle to give a bit more room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 30, 2015 Members Share Posted September 30, 2015 Depending on how far you want to go with this, it is possible to relocate the bridge without permantly modifying the guitar [video=youtube_share;YYJIXdlOg-o] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 30, 2015 Members Share Posted September 30, 2015 Now looking at the bridge i notice there is Not any more room to intonate the G string (slightly sharp even at concert) so i am highly doubting this guitar will intonate well drop down to CGCFAD. I will try and flip the saddle to give a bit more room. You can also use a set with a wound G. The core will be thinner than a solid string and you'll need to run the saddle further toward the bridge. I have a set of d'Addario 10's with a wound third on my Schecter and that's what I had to do. You're going to need a fairly hefty set of strings anyway, especially tuned down to Drop C with a 24 3/4" scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted September 30, 2015 Members Share Posted September 30, 2015 D'Addario makes special heavy strings for C tuning but I think the "loose" string sound is what they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted September 30, 2015 Members Share Posted September 30, 2015 Frankly, I'd think a set of 10's or 11's tuned to Drop C would be plenty loose and there aren't any sets of 9's with a wound third so that kinda sets the lower limit. If I'm calculating correctly, the 0.010 at D with a 24 3/4" scale would have a bit over 12 lbs. of tension and the 0.046 6th would have less than 10 1/2 lbs. at C, which is fairly loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2015 I set-up my Epiphone Explorer with 11-52 strings in CGCFAD. There was no need for a Truss Rod adjustment (has been 24 hours), only bridge height and intonation. My readings for the set up; Relief- ~1/62" (no buzzing any fret, don't have a capo to do an exact measurement at the 8th fret), Action at 12th fret- 1st string 3/32", 6th string 2/32". Intonation went pretty smoothly, Flipped 3rd string saddle. Only string that is ever so slightly sharp is the 6th string in C with the saddle maxed out (nut may need a slight file). If I were to put a larger string say a 54 will this aid the sharp intonation to the key? 52 is slightly loose so a 54 would help in both ways if this is true. Thanks for all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted October 1, 2015 Members Share Posted October 1, 2015 ^ Assuming that's 1/64" for relief, it's a tad more than I like, I'd get it closer to 0.01". You really should go out and buy a cheap rubber band capo just for setups. Action is fine for an acoustic, I find that electrics generally run lower but you're fine as is. Filing the nut won't help with intonation unless the string is sitting high in the slot. Lowering the action will help a bit if you can do it without creating string buzz. Going to a fatter string will only make things worse. Intonation is governed by the diameter of the string's core, a bigger core requires more compensation and a bigger string overall will likely have a bigger core. A smaller string, OTOH, will have a smaller core and intonate better but it will also be looser. Gotoh makes a tune-o-matic bridge with extra saddle travel if you want to try that: http://www.wdmusic.com/wide_tuneomatic_bridge_large_studs_ge103b-tn.html. Either that or learn to live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nin8185 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 1, 2015 The String is running a little high on the slot so next set of strings I will file it down. I will get a capo so i can do a exact measurement on the relief but I feel what i have is perfect for the slightly loose 6th string (which I don't mind either because tend to articulate my notes with bends quite often) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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