They don't build them like this anymore

[agedhorse]

One of my good clients had a Rev 7 that needed repair, it's in nice cosmetic shape and fits the bill perfectly for his B rig. Since I am kind of a yamaha repair guy and repair a lot of his gear, of course he brought it in. Nothing is cheap to repair on this because it's a very complicated, sophisticated DSP FX unit, but it has some of the nicest sounding reverbs I have ever heard (for some specific applications). It was one of the top tour friendly verbs out there. His was built in late 1984 making it ~28 years old.

 

A few simple problems, the worst of which was a bad input gain pot (wiper follower failed on one section) and a couple of bad solder joints and a bad cap on the SMPS, but going through everything step by step there was really nothing else wrong. A couple of hours fixing and going through the test procedure and it's back to 100%. There is plenty of design margin everywhere, supurb engineering all around.

 

Now, this was a $1500 reverb back in it's day, but 28 years later, it's still an accepted and desireable standard and should be good for another 10 years... in the end, it will have cost him about $50/year for a first class cutting edge product. This is a good example of $1500 worth of value IMO.

[Flogger59]

Yamaha made good stuff (still do). How many SPX90s are still in service?

[Coaster]

 

Yamaha made good stuff (still do). How many SPX90s are still in service?

 

 

one in my rack

[Starboard]

I've got two 13 year old O1V's that both still work perfectly and are still used every week.

[Rezrover]

 

How many SPX90s are still in service?

 

 

I got one.

[Telecruiser]

I am a buy once, cry once kinda guy. I don't like budget products. Good post!

[dboomer]

Sorry ... The noise would drive me crazy

[agedhorse]

 

Sorry ... The noise would drive me crazy

 

 

Noise? It's not quite as quiet as modern stuff but plenty quite for any reasonable live application IME. Maybe you had a bad one, I will have to measure the noise floor on the one here.

 

Looks like ~2mV of noise, bandwidth limited to ~10-ish kHz, whch is about -60dB down. That's pretty darn good for a DSP device of that era and probably comparable to many of the internal effects that we see today. Part of the allure is the specific algorithem approach and the use of the lower sampling rate and bandwidth to their advantage. There are some verbs in particular that are very nice, and the noise does not become an issue live in any of the units that I have used.

 

It's even quieter in delay mode (because of the limited feedback return energy).

[W. M. Hellinger]

I heard a sad thing today. As I understand it, there's a program currently going on with at least one digital format mixer manufacture, that if you send them proof of mulching (destroying) your analog gear, that manufacture offers some percentage discount on the purchase of their product. I understand the possible impetus for this as those manufactures probably don

[twostone]

I heard a sad thing today. As I understand it, there's a program currently going on with at least one digital format mixer manufacture, that if you send them proof of mulching (destroying) your analog gear, that manufacture offers some percentage discount on the purchase of their product. I understand the possible impetus for this as those manufactures probably don

[agedhorse]

 

Not profitable enough to make products with a long shelve life.

 

 

It really is profitable but not in the short term.

[KellyMainEvent]

i bought a used spx1000 from a drummer friend who bought it back in the day for rev on his snare in studio work lol, its mint and i got it for $100!!!

[Unalaska]

I['ve got an SPX90 and a SDE1000 to put into an FOH rack. Prolly will do this tomorrow if I have time.

[dboomer]

 

No, they don't build them like this anymore... and they likely never will again in the future. Some of us hold some well deserved reverence for the product of artisan craftsman. Some seemingly don't give a {censored} (or don't know enought to give a {censored}). And some have an agenda heavily involved with the almighty dollar.

 

 

True ... but you have to weight that against the advantages of modern engineering that can significantly reduce price while significantly improve performance. So yes, new gear won't have the swiss watch feel (or price) but it will keep much better time and you'll never have to wind it. While I do hold a place in my heart for craftsmanship, you have to consider what you really value ... the tool or the work it produced.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

So yes, new gear won't have the swiss watch feel (or price) but it will keep much better time and you'll never have to wind it. While I do hold a place in my heart for craftsmanship, you have to consider what you really value ... the tool or the work it produced.

 

I own an old wind-up clock... it's my main timepiece in my shop... happens to be an ex soviet submarine clock, and is a very nice piece of craftsmanship. I rather enjoy my once a week ritual of winding that clock, and readjusting the hands so it's accurate within a minute or two for most of the next week.

 

I remember when a filthy rich farmer friend of my bought a Pulsar LED watch in 1976. It was stupidly expensive... but very cool... never had to wind it, could read the time in the dark, super accurate, sleek stainless steel band that would never wear-out... that farmer promptly relegated his clunky old leather banded wind-up oyster shell Rolex to the a box in his attic... for a few years. I believe he's thankful now that Pulsar wasn't offering some token percentage discount if he'd smashed his Rolex back then... as he's return to wearing (and winding) his Rolex for most of the past 25 years.

 

For me, it's a combination of the work the tool produces combined with the joy of using a good tool... and gaining an appreciation of a well designed and built tool while doing the work. I bought a fiberglass handled framing hammer once, when the wooden handle on my framing hammer was failing... and admittedly, everything about the fiberglass handle was "better" than wooden handles, except for the fact that after swinging that hammer for less than an hour, I went back to using the wooden handled hammer (after replacing the handle) because the fiberglass handle just wasn't as good from the user's standpoint (in-fact it was awful)... and I gave the fiberglass handled hammer away.

[agedhorse]

The feel, fit and finish (especially after a few years of use) is a major part of the user experience. This is something I have learned over the years developing product.

[Gregidon]

 

... I own an old wind-up clock... it's my main timepiece in my shop... happens to be an ex soviet submarine clock, and is a very nice piece of craftsmanship. I rather enjoy my once a week ritual of winding that clock, and readjusting the hands so it's accurate within a minute or two for most of the next week. I remember when a filthy rich farmer friend of my bought a Pulsar LED watch in 1976. It was stupidly expensive... but very cool... never had to wind it, could read the time in the dark, super accurate, sleek stainless steel band that would never wear-out... that farmer promptly relegated his clunky old leather banded wind-up oyster shell Rolex to the a box in his attic... for a few years. I believe he's thankful now that Pulsar wasn't offering some token percentage discount if he'd smashed his Rolex back then... as he's return to wearing (and winding) his Rolex for most of the past 25 years. For me, it's a combination of the work the tool produces combined with the joy of using a good tool... and gaining an appreciation of a well designed and built tool while doing the work. I bought a fiberglass handled framing hammer once, when the wooden handle on my framing hammer was failing... and admittedly, everything about the fiberglass handle was "better" than wooden handles, except for the fact that after swinging that hammer for less than an hour, I went back to using the wooden handled hammer (after replacing the handle) because the fiberglass handle just wasn't as good from the user's standpoint (in-fact it was awful)... and I gave the fiberglass handled hammer away.

 

 

Had to reply to this one. First of all, I bet that old Soviet clock is a treat. If you get a chance to post a picture, we'd all love to see it. Something about a device that is so purpose built is wonderfully elegant.

 

Regarding that Pulsar watch - there is actually a huge market for that watch right now. It's probably worth a couple hundred (or thousand) depending on the exact model and condition. Although it is a little odd, there is something retro-cool about it and people want it. Also, battery technology has come a long way in the last 20 years and the modern stuff lasts a lot longer (more button presses) than they used to.

 

 

On topic, I believe that they actually do make things like they used to, but they cost a lot more than the stuff most of us are accustomed to working with. It's important to remember how much less expensive things are today than 30 years ago. I had this discussion with my wife who was complaining about how cheaply made the stove was. I agreed with her, but I also brought up the fact that our stove cost a small percentage of the stoves of old she was comparing it to (adjusted for inflation). It's completely possible to buy a unit with the build quality of her grandma's stove, but it's going to cost thousands of dollars (like it did back in the day). The brilliance and luxury of today is the ready availability of pretty good, dirt cheap stuff.

[kmart]

 

I own an old wind-up clock... it's my main timepiece in my shop... happens to be an ex soviet submarine clock, and is a very nice piece of craftsmanship. I rather enjoy my once a week ritual of winding that clock, and readjusting the hands so it's accurate within a minute or two for most of the next week .

 

 

Doesn't quite sound like a high-quality precision piece to me...

[scarecrowbob]

"The brilliance and luxury of today is the ready availability of pretty good, dirt cheap stuff."

 

Not to be disagreeable, because I think that more-or-less you're on track (indeed, it is nice to be able to get Stuff even if you don't have a lot of wealth)...

 

... but I disagree.

 

This is a massive problem with our culture and our economy: rather than creating lasting, quality ...things... which are actually more valuable in the long run and which have a real ROI, we end up creating consumer ...markets...

 

The effective product of a lot of low-end musical equipment manufacturing isn't so much a lot of great, cheap equipment: it's a large class of people buying consumer-level equipment.

 

It's not so bad; I'd rather see people churning out cheap speakers instead of cheap AK47s.

 

But I churning out new stuff all the time which is only _cheaper_ (and in the longer term, not better by -any- metric) is never good on any level: cultural, economic, or environmental.

[agedhorse]

I happen to agree for the most part. There is the issue of evolving technology making new products more attractive, but as long at the older technology is not made inoperable it's a win-win.

 

 

"The brilliance and luxury of today is the ready availability of pretty good, dirt cheap stuff." Not to be disagreeable, because I think that more-or-less you're on track (indeed, it is nice to be able to get Stuff even if you don't have a lot of wealth)... ... but I disagree. This is a massive problem with our culture and our economy: rather than creating lasting, quality ...things... which are actually more valuable in the long run and which have a real ROI, we end up creating consumer ...markets... The effective product of a lot of low-end musical equipment manufacturing isn't so much a lot of great, cheap equipment: it's a large class of people buying consumer-level equipment. It's not so bad; I'd rather see people churning out cheap speakers instead of cheap AK47s. But I churning out new stuff all the time which is only _cheaper_ (and in the longer term, not better by -any- metric) is never good on any level: cultural, economic, or environmental.

 

[Axisplayer]

Andy, we all know that the new stuff makes the old stuff pale by comparison. As a magnanimous gesture, I am willing to trade my 01v96 digital consoles for any older Midas Heritage consoles that people have, so they can step up to the newer and better stuff. To keep the bargain even I will be expecting the add on gear, KT GEQs, Drawmer dynamics, etc to be included in the deal however. ;-)

[agedhorse]

Yup, the Heritage consoles have the workmanship, fit and finish that are really very nicely executed. Same for the XL's.

 

It's more the convenience factor that digital consoles (at that level) CAN bring to the workflow of SOME engineers. The last one that came into my venue was for an engineer that had been burned a couple of times on a digital console and prefers to focus on mixing rather than tweeking. As much of a prick as he came off as, the mix was really excellent and he certainly delivered the goods all around.

[Gregidon]

 

"The brilliance and luxury of today is the ready availability of pretty good, dirt cheap stuff." Not to be disagreeable, because I think that more-or-less you're on track (indeed, it is nice to be able to get Stuff even if you don't have a lot of wealth)... ... but I disagree. This is a massive problem with our culture and our economy: rather than creating lasting, quality ...things... which are actually more valuable in the long run and which have a real ROI, we end up creating consumer ...markets... The effective product of a lot of low-end musical equipment manufacturing isn't so much a lot of great, cheap equipment: it's a large class of people buying consumer-level equipment. It's not so bad; I'd rather see people churning out cheap speakers instead of cheap AK47s. But I churning out new stuff all the time which is only _cheaper_ (and in the longer term, not better by -any- metric) is never good on any level: cultural, economic, or environmental.

 

 

I don't find your response disagreeable. I actually agree that the throw-away mentality it is a big problem in our society today. That being said, today we have access to better goods at a lower cost than any other time in history. If you compare even the cost of a nice mixing consoles, let's say the new Allen and Heath iLive or new Midas Pro2 - let's say $20k, this is way less money than an equivalent, high end mixer of the day and incorporates a ton more features. I'd love to know what a big Midas Heritage - say 128 channel board cost back in the day, but i bet it was way more than 20% of the salary of the typical EE. I'm not saying there isn't more crap on the market, but along with the crap, the overall cost of stuff has come way down (or your buying power has gone up).

 

Back to the throw-away society thing... this is really just the symptom of our 'want it now' society. Mix in a little bit of snake-oil sales tactics and you've got a market that demands cheap crap equipment that looks like the real thing with consumers none the wiser in terms of performance. Something tells me this isn't all that new, but it's fun to complain about how bad things are, isn't it?

[W. M. Hellinger]

I bet that old Soviet clock is a treat. If you get a chance to post a picture,

Sure, here it is:

 

 

I bought it in approx. 1990, from a mail order catalog. I was living in the Alaska bush at the time.

 

This clock keeps fairly accurate time if the ambient temperature stays reasonably steady... as it probably does within a submarine. In my shop; however, the temperature can fluxuate 40 degrees +/-... so I gotta bump it's fine tune lever up or down a little with the seasons.

[Dookietwo]

I remember the Rev well. Seem to remember Patch 32 or so as a great drum reverb. The added eq was great on the fly when you couldn't return through a channel.

 

Pictures?

Doug