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Phil O'Keefe

Should the copyright office be its own Federal agency?

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I thought this was kind of interesting Should the copyright office be a independent Federal agency, or continue on as a department of the Library of Congress? Seems like the case is being made for the former by the Register of Copyrights... [URL="http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=c0648d9d-5c2f-43a1-8dee-fca27218a091&utm_source=Lexology+Daily+Newsfeed&utm_medium=HTML+email+-+Body+-+Federal+section&utm_campaign=AMEC+subscriber+daily+feed&utm_content=Lexology+Daily+Newsfeed+2015-05-07&utm_term="]Read about it here. [/URL]

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Interesting. But isn't the LoC, in part, the repository for copyright exemplars?

 

Of more immediate interest to me was the Music Licensing Report, which looks like is going to take a few minutes of qual time to really absorb...

 

http://ostrowesq.com/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-copyright-offices-202-page-music-licensing-report/

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Until the stupid fcks in DC can get the damn thing firing on all 8 cylinders, there is little point which branch/dept is controlling it.

18 National intelligence agencies?

18 trillion dollar deficit?

18 generations of financial servitude?

Corporate criminality across all segments of society?

A rigged electoral/electronic voting/political system that requires a billion dollars as an entrance fee to participate in?

Local jails, police dept's, prisons and unions on the take to federalize police and all levels of justice & law enforcement?

A Federal Reserve bent on enslaving as many as possible?

A taxation system that favors a slim minority at the expense of the masses?

A MIC that poisons, pollutes and promises never ending warfare

against it's own citizens?

No amount of artistic beauty relevance or integrity is worth an 18 month wait for a confirmation of a copywrite...

Give me a break doesn't even begin to address the depth of my contempt and disgust.

I hope I die before

I get old...

Edited by Temple of Light
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Why would it need to be a separate office. All a copyright is, is a copy of your work that gets stored for legal backup in case you need to fight for your rights in court. Lawyers and courts do all the rest (if you can afford to higher them and fight for your rights)

 

I wouldn't want the government agency involved in anything more then the storage of the copyright. I surely wouldn't want them to have any Business, Legal or Political Power over a copyright because with that comes the ability to manipulate what they store.

 

The whole idea is at the heart of our government where the little guy can protect his rights from those who have wealth and power. A copyright is supposed to be a lock box only the holder of that copyright has a key to open and use it.

 

I wouldn't ever want some agency in charge of copyrights because human nature has shown there are no agencies that can be trusted to use their spare set of keys in the interest of the people. They all use their power enrich themselves and protect their agency.

 

The best way to prevent corruption in an agency is to never set it up in the first place because once you do the gravy train never ends and even if you restrict their spending, they steal from the people. Just look at the IRS and you see a perfect example of an agency that has been given way too much power over the people and they will do anything with that power to sustain that agency.

Edited by WRGKMC

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Why would it need to be a separate office. All a copyright is, is a copy of your work that gets stored for legal backup in case you need to fight for your rights in court. Lawyers and courts do all the rest (if you can afford to higher them and fight for your rights)

 

I wouldn't want the government agency involved in anything more then the storage of the copyright. I surely wouldn't want them to have any Business, Legal or Political Power over a copyright because with that comes the ability to manipulate what they store.

 

But, that's exactly what the Copyright Office does. Sure, they manage the registry of copyrights, but they also determine what rights you have as the copyright owner. They make the recommendations and policies that the courts enforce, and what eventually goes into the copyright laws.

 

Whether or not this justifies an independent department isn't something I feel strongly about one way or the other, but you should understand that the Copyright Office isn't just a database of intellectual properties stored for safekeeping.

 

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But, that's exactly what the Copyright Office does. Sure, they manage the registry of copyrights, but they also determine what rights you have as the copyright owner. They make the recommendations and policies that the courts enforce, and what eventually goes into the copyright laws.

 

Whether or not this justifies an independent department isn't something I feel strongly about one way or the other, but you should understand that the Copyright Office isn't just a database of intellectual properties stored for safekeeping.

 

I'll have to disagree on that. The copyright office is simply a bunch of bookkeepers that are supposed to put the copyrights in storage for safe keeping.

 

They do make a package available that spells all this out. You simply have to register for free on line and download the package and read it. I probably have a copy at home I could send you.

 

The copyright office doesn't make laws. Congress does. The office does nothing to help anyone with a copyright infringements. They are not lawyers or courts and have no legal power other then to insure the safe keeping of the documents. They simply store what you pay to have put in storage and retrieve those documents when requested by the courts (and paid for doing that as well) beyond that they are supposed to ensure no one can access those patents illegally and steal them.

 

The package you download has all the info there about how all the different versions of copyrights can be submitted and how you are protected. They tell you right in the package, if you're wanting to submit a complex copyright you need to hire a lawyer to insure what you're registering is legal. Hopefully that lawyer knows business law and will tell you its a waste of time and money attempting to patent the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

This process is no different then getting a Will written up or any other legal contract except its designed to protect you against possible future events. Most of your complex copyrights are made up by companies who have lawyers do this work. Today most of its is data vs hardware which saves on costs and storage space. Of course even that job can become complex with millions of documents being stored and retrieved on a regular basis, but that storage is being paid for by the people registering their copyrights.

 

The office can't determine whose copyright is valid or not. If someone makes a claim and brings it to a court as a lawsuit, then that office may be asked to submit both copyrights to the court and then the court decides which is valid and which isn't.

 

The office doesn't police every copyright that's submitted as many think. That job would be impossible with all the billions of copyrights that have been submitted. They store them for a certain amount of years and then they have to be renewed. Eventually they expire and become public property. I'm sure there are some laws that provide extensions for military and classified info.

 

Again if a lawyer doesn't create a proper copyright then its unlikely to stand up in court. If a copyright is made on something that's already copyrighted, then its only going to fail when properly challenged by some industry individual. I'm sure the office holds millions of copyrights that are totally bogus but why would or should they care.

 

They were paid for the storage like you would for a safe deposit box. Its just the library of congress is supposed to be the safest place to stores mans ideas and its supposed to be trustworthy and free of tampering. If you want to challenge a mans rights to having exclusive rights to those ideas, then its done by his peers in a court of law where the thoughts behind it can be fully explained.

 

I surely don't want some office worker having the power to tell me if my ideas are original or not. I simply want them to be provide safe storage of what "I" pay them to store. Given the fact it can take between 9-24 months for that copyright to be legally stored, I'd have to say they suck at what they do and giving them any more power when they cant even do their current job in a timely manor is beyond ridiculous.

Edited by WRGKMC

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Mike has some good points. Congress gave the Copyright Office a number of roles in addition to the registration and archival roles. Among them, according to the About Us page on the Office's website:

 

The Office administers several statutory licenses that manage and disperse private monies, including those pertaining to copyright owners’ rights in programming on broadcast television signals that are retransmitted by cable operators and satellite carriers.

 

It also provides basic copyright information services to the public in a variety of ways. Last year, the Office’s Information and Records Division answered hundreds of thousands of inquiries by phone and email, performed search and retrieval functions for customers involved in research and litigation, and served a substantial number of in-person visitors.

 

Congress has also prescribed critical law and policy functions for the Copyright Office. See 17 U.S.C. § 701. These include: domestic and international policy analysis; legislative support for Congress; litigation activities; support for the courts and executive branch agencies (including significant efforts on trade and antipiracy initiatives); participation on U.S. delegations in meetings with foreign governments or private parties; attendance and participation at intergovernmental meetings and other international events; hosting copyright training for copyright officials from developing countries; and providing public information and education. The Copyright Office works regularly with the Department of Justice, the Department of State, the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative, and the Department of Commerce, including the Patent and Trademark Office. By statute, the Register of Copyrights is a member of the interagency intellectual property enforcement ad visory committee chaired by the U.S. Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator ( IPEC ).

Edited by blue2blue

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Mike has some good points. Congress gave the Copyright Office a number of roles in addition to the registration and archival roles. Among them' date=' according to the [i']About Us[/i] page on the Office's website:

 

 

Most of those roles have nothing to do with copyrights themselves. Its all stuff that involves other agencies who should be doing those jobs. Asking the Patent department full of file clerks to get involved in all that stuff isn't any different then asking a Postal Worker to be involved in the same stuff. Yea maybe the worker has a law degree, but if he does, what the heck is he doing delivering mail?

 

I know how it gets going. A good example for an analogy might be this recent trade deal. They make up this deal and ask for help from the patent department regarding piracy stuff that out of control. Instead of doing their homework and knowing what the laws are. This congressman calls over to the patent office and find some guy whose willing to help out for a price. Is he qualified to help? Who knows. Maybe he's not in the same political party and says, hey man, that's not my job, but I might do it if you give me more money or power to get more power. - OK, We cant raise your salary because you're supposed to be a file clerk in the patent office. Only federal agencies can control a bigger budget and give themselves big raises and big perks. How bout you scratch our back here and we'll give you a bigger piece of the pie and make you an agency?

 

That's how all this crap gets going and we all pay for it. This is one agency that should be politically neutral and have nothing to do with business in any shape or manor. If they get involved in other areas it compromise the people working there. When you put this entity in charge of things like money flow or broadcasting or any of that stuff there will always be someone there willing to take a bribe when it involves that agencies participation, even if its only opinions.

 

I realize those jobs deal with complex issues, and sure, they answer a billion calls because their website sucks and they are so slow doing their jobs. I would too if I was that lame at getting my job done and it would be feedback that's deserved. You don't fix a problem by turning it into even a bigger monster. You fix the problem first and make it highly efficient. If they are efficient then give them additional responsibility filling in gaps but there is no reason to make them into another bloated agency which is untouchable when corruption occurs.

 

If anything I say privatize the bulk of the work if they cant handle it. At least you can jail the people who work for a company if they screw up. You cant do anything to government works when they are caught stealing from the people. Look at the IRS. They don't even pay their own takes yet we go to jail if we don't lay ours. Right is right and wrong is no mans right.

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Most of those roles have nothing to do with copyrights themselves. Its all stuff that involves other agencies who should be doing those jobs. Asking the Patent department full of file clerks to get involved in all that stuff isn't any different then asking a Postal Worker to be involved in the same stuff. Yea maybe the worker has a law degree, but if he does, what the heck is he doing delivering mail?

 

I know how it gets going. A good example for an analogy might be this recent trade deal. They make up this deal and ask for help from the patent department regarding piracy stuff that out of control. Instead of doing their homework and knowing what the laws are. This congressman calls over to the patent office and find some guy whose willing to help out for a price. Is he qualified to help? Who knows. Maybe he's not in the same political party and says, hey man, that's not my job, but I might do it if you give me more money or power to get more power. - OK, We cant raise your salary because you're supposed to be a file clerk in the patent office. Only federal agencies can control a bigger budget and give themselves big raises and big perks. How bout you scratch our back here and we'll give you a bigger piece of the pie and make you an agency?

 

That's how all this crap gets going and we all pay for it. This is one agency that should be politically neutral and have nothing to do with business in any shape or manor. If they get involved in other areas it compromise the people working there. When you put this entity in charge of things like money flow or broadcasting or any of that stuff there will always be someone there willing to take a bribe when it involves that agencies participation, even if its only opinions.

 

I realize those jobs deal with complex issues, and sure, they answer a billion calls because their website sucks and they are so slow doing their jobs. I would too if I was that lame at getting my job done and it would be feedback that's deserved. You don't fix a problem by turning it into even a bigger monster. You fix the problem first and make it highly efficient. If they are efficient then give them additional responsibility filling in gaps but there is no reason to make them into another bloated agency which is untouchable when corruption occurs.

 

If anything I say privatize the bulk of the work if they cant handle it. At least you can jail the people who work for a company if they screw up. You cant do anything to government works when they are caught stealing from the people. Look at the IRS. They don't even pay their own takes yet we go to jail if we don't lay ours. Right is right and wrong is no mans right.

 

As anyone with corporate business experience will tell you, this sort of functional siloing inevitably eats itself. Departments and agencies always work together and *need* to work together (public or private) or you end up, in the best of cases, doing the same things multiple times, or, at worst, running each other over to the benefit of no one.

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Most of those roles have nothing to do with copyrights themselves. Its all stuff that involves other agencies who should be doing those jobs. Asking the Patent department full of file clerks to get involved in all that stuff isn't any different then asking a Postal Worker to be involved in the same stuff. Yea maybe the worker has a law degree, but if he does, what the heck is he doing delivering mail?

 

I know how it gets going. A good example for an analogy might be this recent trade deal. They make up this deal and ask for help from the patent department regarding piracy stuff that out of control. Instead of doing their homework and knowing what the laws are. This congressman calls over to the patent office and find some guy whose willing to help out for a price. Is he qualified to help? Who knows. Maybe he's not in the same political party and says, hey man, that's not my job, but I might do it if you give me more money or power to get more power. - OK, We cant raise your salary because you're supposed to be a file clerk in the patent office. Only federal agencies can control a bigger budget and give themselves big raises and big perks. How bout you scratch our back here and we'll give you a bigger piece of the pie and make you an agency?

 

That's how all this crap gets going and we all pay for it. This is one agency that should be politically neutral and have nothing to do with business in any shape or manor. If they get involved in other areas it compromise the people working there. When you put this entity in charge of things like money flow or broadcasting or any of that stuff there will always be someone there willing to take a bribe when it involves that agencies participation, even if its only opinions.

 

I realize those jobs deal with complex issues, and sure, they answer a billion calls because their website sucks and they are so slow doing their jobs. I would too if I was that lame at getting my job done and it would be feedback that's deserved. You don't fix a problem by turning it into even a bigger monster. You fix the problem first and make it highly efficient. If they are efficient then give them additional responsibility filling in gaps but there is no reason to make them into another bloated agency which is untouchable when corruption occurs.

 

If anything I say privatize the bulk of the work if they cant handle it. At least you can jail the people who work for a company if they screw up. You cant do anything to government works when they are caught stealing from the people. Look at the IRS. They don't even pay their own takes yet we go to jail if we don't lay ours. Right is right and wrong is no mans right.

 

 

I, too, am amazed and often unamused by oft-told horror stories of bureaucracies gone stupidly wrong, but the problem is that if one takes a long, careful look at the the roles these governmental agencies are tasked to fill (whether through execution or contract administration) -- by the people's legislative representatives (don't forget all of those roles above flow directly from Congress' overlapping mandates to the LoC, Copyright Office, etc) -- one finds that the federal government is many things to many people and businesses. Business systems have evolved around the structure of the government and law; changing these structures or roles even in the best of circumstances and for the best of motivations tends to be highly disruptive.

 

The disenfranchised can be squeaky wheels but have no real power. Businesses, on the other hand, have money and government connections and know how to exert pressure. And when someone comes along and wants to disrupt their enterprise by changing the law or streamlining government or some legal process, it can be shocking to see the powerful players who come out of the woodwork to defend their vestment in the way things have been done in the past. A lot of people pay lip service to streamlining government -- but when push comes to shove, it's typically all those outsourced-service third party providers who cry the loudest over sliced budgets and streamlined processes and systems. It's why the federal government still shells out for so much 'right wing welfare' like small business and farm subsidies, tax credits, set asides and giveaways. Trying to take away a business subsidy or cancel a long time contract with a private provider can be a trip to hell wading through flaming lobbyists from what I've seen over the years.

Edited by blue2blue

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We should not allow any more gubment agencies....PERIOD!!

 

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I'll have to disagree on that. The copyright office is simply a bunch of bookkeepers that are supposed to put the copyrights in storage for safe keeping.

 

The copyright office doesn't make laws. Congress does.

 

You obviously have an axe to grind. Disagree all you want, but your impression of the Copyright Office is incorrect. It's true that they don't make the laws, Congress does, but Congress goes to the Copyright Office to work out what to put in the laws.

 

If there's a problem with this approach, it's that Congress doesn't just implement what the Copyright Office suggests, they're also influenced strongly by lobbyists. That's why nothing they do, whether it's copyright legislation or medical care, isn't always in the best interest of those who need a law the most.

 

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We should not allow any more gubment agencies....PERIOD!!

 

Yes. The growth in tax and government is way out of balance with the private sector. They should be ashamed of themselves for even thinking they should have any more growth.

 

If you take out the top tiers in both and compare what the middle class in both earn the differences are staggering. These pay scales should be reversed in nearly all categories and its exactly why I say, no more growth. If they need money, they can find it within their own agencies. Businesses have been trimming away the fat for decades now and there's just no more there to cut.

 

My company services other businesses so I get to see this first hand on a daily basis and I know for a fact how lean these companies are running. Its in fact dangerously low to the point where it can come crashing down like a house of cards. The well is dry and if government doesn't back off and let people earn money and secure some savings there wont be any economy left to sponge off of.

 

I didn't even need to pull these charts to know what was going on, but now that I have I can see its much worse then I suspected.

 

My one question is this. Why do federal workers, who are hired by the people, earn more then the people who pay their wages?

 

Their education isn't any higher, they surely don't put in as many hours of work, they produce nothing that ears any money. You cant blame this on the business owners either because this is a question of balance and letting government set their own pay scale well above the private sector.

 

I think the government should be capped at what the private sector earns in these jobs and be forced to change with the private sector. This is only fair. If the private sector is stagnant, so must be the federal. If they want raises, the private sector must do well first. There is no incentive for government to insure the private sector does what's right for the country otherwise.

 

 

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Edited by WRGKMC
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My one question is this. Why do federal workers, who are hired by the people, earn more then the people who pay their wages?

 

Their education isn't any higher, they surely don't put in as many hours of work, they produce nothing that ears any money. You cant blame this on the business owners either because this is a question of balance and letting government set their own pay scale well above the private sector.

 

I think the government should be capped at what the private sector earns in these jobs and be forced to change with the private sector. This is only fair. If the private sector is stagnant, so must be the federal. If they want raises, the private sector must do well first. There is no incentive for government to insure the private sector does what's right for the country otherwise.

 

 

Flip it around. Why are workers in the private sector (in the US) not making as much as government workers? Why is the private market compensation the "right" price and the de facto "ceiling" for a salary, instead of the public servant compensation being considered the proper "floor" (or even, "average")?

 

Why, for that matter, has real wage growth for workers in the US stagnated for decades now, while private sector profits, productivity (and the compensation for top executives) skyrocketed? The profits are there, the dividends just aren't making it to the employees.

 

The problem here is the illusion that the corporate world and the private markets are (to use a technical term) "perfect" and that the "invisible hand" will resolve the problem. It doesn't. There's a reason why we have things like OSHA, the FTC and a minimum wage: Because business owners and operators cannot be assumed to do the "right thing" out of the goodness of their hearts (history has shown many, many times that profits will very frequently come at the expense of employee well-being). Particularly when, in the absence of regulation stating otherwise, they are obliged by corporate charter to return as much profit as is humanly possible to the shareholders *first*.

 

As an aside: It is really odd to hear someone who is arguing for less regulation in business, in the next breath argue for legislated salary caps on government workers but not private sector workers (where the compensation director-through-c-level positions exceeds that of the salaries for even cabinet secretaries by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars). At least compensation for all government employees are according to publicly available schedules. Compensation for workers that aren't executive level is often a closely held secret (often in order to keep pressure on wages down - even though it's illegal to prohibit discussion of compensation between employees, the "culture of secrecy" around wages in the US works for the business owner, not for the employees), and in privately held companies even the compensation for those high-level positions are secret. fetch?id=31488764&type=mediumfetch?id=31488765&type=mediumfetch?id=31488764&type=smallfetch?id=31488765&type=smallfetch?id=31488766&type=small

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Edited by Nijyo
More edits at the end

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You obviously have an axe to grind. Disagree all you want, but your impression of the Copyright Office is incorrect. It's true that they don't make the laws, Congress does, but Congress goes to the Copyright Office to work out what to put in the laws.

 

If there's a problem with this approach, it's that Congress doesn't just implement what the Copyright Office suggests, they're also influenced strongly by lobbyists. That's why nothing they do, whether it's copyright legislation or medical care, isn't always in the best interest of those who need a law the most.

 

Yeah, it's the flaw in a representative democracy, especially a large, complex one like the US. How do you ensure that a representative is truly being a representative, acting on the wishes of those who elected them. Furthermore, is it actually in the best interests of the Republic to actually legislate, using common terminology, "according to polls"? The latter idea would seem to be a good idea overall if the were to consider the average voter to be educated on all the issues of the day, but as has been said (not by Churchill), "The best argument against Democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

 

So, it's a conundrum, but, as Churchill *did* say:

 

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

 

Seeing as there are many countries who can't seem to get democracy, in any form, started on a good footing, the fact that we in the US (and other modern democracies) can manage to, time after time, hold elections where bitter rivals willingly give up power on a regular basis is a stunningly positive development in the history of humankind.

 

Yes, it is at times broken, and we surely haven't "solved" the problem of oligarchical influence in the US (one of the reasons that the Estate Tax exists is (in a lackluster, half-hearted way) to restrain the growth of a permanent aristocracy). But, overall, considering that we're still "figuring out" this all as we go along, we could be doing a lot worse.

 

But I've typed too many words here already. I shall retire to meatspace and write some horrible lyrics, in the hope that some of those horrible lyrics will turn into decent songs later on smile.png

Edited by Nijyo

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We should eliminate about fifty to start with, I'm sick and fckng tired of pos politicians and their cronies in the financial system insisting we need more and more oversight, regulation, intrusion and control over every aspect of sexuality, communication, education, technology, business, & society. Technology doesn't drive human evolution, people do, and sadly we are not evolving, rather devolving into a more hostile, more fearful and more hateful species because of the conditioning of a few thousand people who know the truth of our origins, our true capabilities and the vast potential of the human race.

It's being directed toward their own ends and I for one have had enough of the fascism, lies, dysfunction, corruption, corporatism masquerading as favoritism, surveillance, waste without end and complete disregard for FREEDOM IN EVERY POSSIBLE CONTEXT. Everything now is just some function of control and people will eventually rebel at enforced religion, enforced conformance, enforced performance and enforced socialism that keeps people afraid, addicted, abusive and dissatisfied with their own environment both internally and externally. A change is coming and will be very disturbing when those in power and control see that the people will no longer stand for it and they will be made to get out of the fkng way.

American Revolution pt 2 is coming and only the really free who truly understand freedom will be allowed to have and sustain it. These criminals and charlatans will be held to account and justice will prevail.

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