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Composing vs. Recording vs. Mixing with a DAW


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The stream of creativity is pure, open, untainted, limitless...

 

Once a machine is introduced into that stream of creativity, it can no longer be creative, because the machines essence is mechanical. The machine requires a precise process, a step by step chain of events to function. The machine is not pure, open, untainted, limitless...

 

There are two operating systems at work. Therefore, creativity and the machine simply cannot happily exist together.

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It's interesting to see the different perspectives, and how we define things such as, "Pure." To me our system of music notation and composition with pen and paper is a "Machine" in the sense we have to conform to certain rules as the first step. Since I'm mostly self taught and play by ear I get that there will always be a disconnect between those like me and those that learned to conceptualize music visually, represented by symbols.

 

My ex is a very talented pianist and classically trained singer with a beautiful coloratura soprano voice. She can sight read anything, but could not play by ear at all and never composed a piece of music. She was always fascinated how I could just sit down at the piano and start making something up with no training and no pen and paper. We were opposites that way, so I was around it most of my adult life.

 

I also see recording devices, analog or digital as instruments in their own right. I don't separate in my mind my guitars piano and other keyboards from a sequencer or even an effects processor. The feedback I get from how something initially sounds influences the direction the song will go. It's all auditory for me. I collaborate with myself, but each instrument and track is a different self.

 

I've always heard it said that the human voice is the only pure instrument and the purest way to create music is by humming or singing. Probably a good argument for that. Every instrument we have in some way instructs us where we can go and not go. Being self taught with piano as my first instrument I had some freedom to discover without rules. And yet there are rules by its very design. The human beings that designed the instrument knew the rules and so the instrument itself tells me how to play it but imposes boundaries. Maybe there is no purely self-taught. The designers of the instrument teach you how to navigate it by the design. The instrument is both freeing and limiting Like a railroad track. A train could not function without tracks, but it can’t go anywhere else but where tracks have been laid.

 

Maybe I digress a bit from the topic, but I find it fascinating how individuals conceptualize the creative processes depending on the path they took to get where they are. By the way, I had a tape recorder running nearly from the beginning as I taught myself to play piano. So the idea of capturing as I play goes back to the age of 7 or 8 years old. I'm sure I'll never be able to see it any other way, though I can understand how others can see it another way.

 

Thought for the day: I wonder how someone like Ray Charles conceptualized music composition. I know he learned to "Read" music through brail in grade school, but how did he "see" it? To my knowledge he never wrote any music himself using brail. Someone like that has no choice but to find another way because this "Machine" this body we inhabit also has limitations, more for some than others.

 

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Regarding work flow and composition... some months ago I read about software called NotateMe which is used with a stylus for hand notated music. I ordered a Samsung Note Pro 12 inch tablet with this in mind. Bought the software and began to use it. Rather than notate completely by only "drawing" noteheads and such, I found I preferred using the tap and drag function for entering. After getting some music notated the way I wanted, I discovered that the software's rendering interpreted what it thought I meant to notate. I can't print it out as I notated it - only as the software renders it. So triplet quarter notes were grouped differently than I'd written them. I emailed the support people and they said I should try putting more space between certain notes. Why can't they give me WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get)? Midi playback won't allow this. I don't want midi playback.

 

The software was frustrating and useless for my needs. But the advantages to workflow would be many. Saving erasures, allowing insertion of replacement measures, allowing for alternate sections of a piece, etc.

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I also see recording devices, analog or digital as instruments in their own right. I don't separate in my mind my guitars piano and other keyboards from a sequencer or even an effects processor.

 

I'm sort of the same way. I see Ernest's point of how machines can get in the way, but of course the limitation of a guitar and a notepad is only the notepad can remember things. It's taken me a lot of effort to become fluent enough with computers to where it feels no different than picking up a guitar. The guitar has the prep work of tuning, and the DAW has the prep work of loading a template that's optimized for writing instead of recording...to my way of thinking, two very different functions.

 

DAWs were based on the tape paradigm for years (just ask Pro Tools) and it took programs like Ableton Live to say "hey, these things can be used for writing, too." One of the main reasons I use SONAR is whether by accident or design, it can be "bent" in the direction of writing as well as recording.

 

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One of the main reasons I use SONAR is whether by accident or design, it can be "bent" in the direction of writing as well as recording.

 

Can you give us an example?

 

I mean don't you still have your guitar or keyboard pugged into SONAR? I sometimes will write something while playing thru an amp sim within SONAR or with a MIDI keyboard plugged into SONAR but I still consider the song to have been written on guitar or keyboard.

 

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Can you give us an example?

 

Great question. Yes, the genesis is still with guitar, keyboard, or mic plugged into SONAR but it's more like a songwriting partner...for example, going through rapid fire key changes quickly to see if a different key works better for my voice, or quick dragging over a drum loop to have something better than a click to play against.

 

 

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Gotta be where you're at while you're there.

 

I've done some of it when I was younger ... playing away at length with a recorder running, experimenting, checking out my reflection in the musical mirror. Panning for golden moments to make something more of.

 

I'm a bit more determined about it right now. I know what I want. Hammer and anvil.

 

I'm not in any hurry, nor am I particularly worried about grabbing ideas before they get away. And for sure if I put a recorder next to the bed to catch the riffs that go by in my sleep, I'll have nothing but a Mustang Cobra, tornadoes and women in my dreams for days.

 

Sometimes the idea comes in a gale and it's all you can do to hang on. Sometimes intellect and skills are more involved, there's some symbiosis of captain, boat and breeze. And sometimes you just have to stick the 'ol oars in the water and try and make headway. Just don't be rowing when you could be sailing.

 

 

I don't have many hangups, that I can do much about anyway. I create with drum machines, keyboards, sequencers, with the violin. Maybe back and forth between the two. I can see, hear and practically feel a violin without being anywhere near one, and sometimes it's prudent for me to do as much that way as I can.

 

Not likely I'll be worried about the crack of the snare while I'm creating violin parts though. I have my sequencers synced with my HD24XR and it's great to no longer be getting derailed by adats.

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Like you, Craig, I learned all of my recording in the analog tape days. In the '80s I could fire up the Tascam 8 or 16-trk and my Soundcraft mixer and I could have ideas down in minutes. I kept my lead guitar (with all effects) plugged into one channel, my bass in a different channel, my vocal mic in a different channel, my keyboard in a separate channel - so everything was ready to go (all I had to do was pick the tape tracks I wanted - and the board was set up to monitor all tracks, so as soon as I recorded it I could hear everything play back).

 

When I had to migrate to ProTools in 2002 there was a steep learning curve, and I often had to deal with a technical issue before I could get creative. Major bummer!

 

Today ProTools is more stable - but for quick recording I love my ZOOM R24. It has a drum machine built in, and it has 8 mic inputs and the ability to move tracks around so I can keep things plugged in. (for example, my guitar is set to record on track 1, but I can immediately move the recorded track to a different track and use the guitar input for a new track. I can record all of my ideas on the ZOOM, and then just take out the SIMM card, put that in my ProTools DAW and import all the tracks as separate channels. They are immediately compatible (16-bit 44.1 kHz), so my Protools session is ready to go instantly.

 

At that point I start doing all the cool "in the box" editing you can do in the DAW interface. It's the best of both worlds.

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The stream of creativity is pure, open, untainted, limitless...

 

Once a machine is introduced into that stream of creativity, it can no longer be creative, because the machines essence is mechanical. The machine requires a precise process, a step by step chain of events to function. The machine is not pure, open, untainted, limitless...

 

There are two operating systems at work. Therefore, creativity and the machine simply cannot happily exist together.

 

 

And yet, isn't a piano a type of machine?

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I don't really see much difference between standing in front of a pile of sequencers or sitting on a mountain top somewhere with a shakuhachi flute. It's blank slate either way. Both systems have their limitations. I kinda like being warm and dry though. :)

 

The creativity stream is always flowing. I just have to jump in and swim. Maybe it's a skinny dip, or maybe I've got flippers, floats, and an inner tube. I'll be goin with the flow either way, hopefully.

 

I don't use the recorder as an instrument, as far as I can tell. It's the medium. There are rare times when I punch in, but that's about it.

 

I do create through using it if I'm listening to my first attempts on some new effort, hearing things I wish to keep, things I don't. Standing back for a look and some perspective as it were.

 

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I compose entirely on paper and (virtual) sheet music. But once composed, the arrangement is a collaborative effort by the whole band.

 

I write lyrics longhand in a paper notebook, and the basic rhythmic and song structure at the same time.

I pick out a basic chord progression on the piano and write it in the notebook.

 

Then the process moves to Sibelius:

 

I enter the simple rhythms on the percussion staff and copy/paste through the song.

I type in lyrics against a repetition of the key(s) root note(s).

I add the rhythm guitar chords and realize them to a guitar track.

The lyric melody is composed by using a mouse to move the notes to the ones it demands from my head, refining against Sibelius's playback of drums/guitar.

I refine the bpm to where I want it.

I print out the score, construct chord charts and lyric sheets, and hand them to the band along with a description of the tone and overall feel of the song, and play them the Sibelius playback version.

 

Bass line and lead guitar I generally leave up to the individual musicians, likewise the percussion part in the score is just to illustrate rhythm and not to dictate what the drummer should play. I compose the song, but the arrangement is still up in the air when it leaves the paper. And I'll determine what I'm going to play and what sounds I'm going to use when I hear how it sounds as a band.

 

There are of course exceptions: I have one song where the synth part came first, but that's because it's actually defining the structure and the keys itself in that piece. But the seemingly normal process of "hey, let's see what you have so far and we'll play it and see what comes out" is completely opposite to how I compose and is almost never helpful.

 

 

And recording is multi-track to SD card on the Line 6 mixer, mixing and tracking is by Reaper.

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It depends on your playing level. For me, I`m pretty fluent on a keyboard so I don`t have to think about it much. I cannot say the same for guitar.

 

So wait...determining whether something is a machine or not is defined by the ability level of the user?

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For composition, I have to be comfortable, free from distractions, and have a medium that captures ideas as they come. Sitting on the sofa on the rare mornings when I have the place to myself, with my acoustic and pen and paper is a natural setup.

 

I'm composing more on Sonar, gradually. But some days the computer gremlins show up and spoil everything. As in just this week, all of a sudden Kontakt started crashing Sonar. Why now?? I haven't installed or updated anything new since the new year. Well, I know the drill - I updated all my Komplete programs, and the crashes stopped. But so did the creative flow I had going.

 

Aside from computer problems, which probably won't ever go away, getting comfortable with a DAW - the kind of comfort that makes a cocoon for creative work for me - means customizing Sonar and creating a few basic templates and setups that can get me right up and going. It's more than just time-saving. Customizing Sonar gives me "my own" Sonar setup and that makes a huge difference.

 

For example - it's tedious, but I've spent a lot of time setting up basic combo program templates. Bass, drums, keys, a couple of audio tracks with all the effects tweaked for my vocals and my acoustic guitar, and a couple of synths with controllers mapped so I can jump in and go, all of it familiar and becoming more second nature all the time.

 

This means....reading the Sonar manual, watching tutorials (including Craig's most excellent contributions along those lines) and taking the time to think things out, make notes, draw diagrams, analyze what I do and how I naturally work, and experiment a lot.

 

You remember when you were a kid and an early music fanatic? Didn't you make all those first big discoveries by "wasting time" listening and dreaming and getting gear and experimenting, always pushing to learn something new? A lot of my most valuable time creatively speaking is just taking off time to "mess around" with instruments, ideas, and software, and daydreams.

 

nat whilk ii

 

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For composition, I have to be comfortable, free from distractions, and have a medium that captures ideas as they come. Sitting on the sofa on the rare mornings when I have the place to myself, with my acoustic and pen and paper is a natural setup.

 

 

 

You remember when you were a kid and an early music fanatic? Didn't you make all those first big discoveries by "wasting time" listening and dreaming and getting gear and experimenting, always pushing to learn something new? A lot of my most valuable time creatively speaking is just taking off time to "mess around" with instruments, ideas, and software, and daydreams.

 

nat whilk ii

 

 

 

Me Too!

 

I experimented for years.

 

I have unfinished business though. Which is partly why I said that I know what I want earlier.

 

I don't mind being in that spot in some ways. It's quite freeing actually, to see what you want, or what maybe is simply attainable, before you.

 

But, I'm hampered as well.

 

Pain is a great teacher.

 

Nothing compares to the violin, skills wise, for me, but I've had to find more ways to get the music out besides the instrument I began playing when I was 5. It also behooves me to think about where I wish to go before I pick up a violin and try to go there. Creativity all the same.

 

Long before I was injured, plenty of songs were precipitated by tools other than the violin, and it was the coolest to finally be practically salivating over the cherry on top, (violin). I often feel that way about bass lines too.

 

I can hardly wait until I get to the part where I'm just messin around again though... with whatever is available.

 

thu.gif

 

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So wait...determining whether something is a machine or not is defined by the ability level of the user?

 

Yes. The piano is an extension of my mind when I am in that creative state. My piano chops are good enough that I do not have to think about how to do something, I just do it when I`m in that state. I cannot access that state on the guitar because my chops are not there. Technical proficiency either hinders or hastens ones creativity.

 

You could argue that a DAW is an instrument and I would agree with that with something like Ableton LIVE where the hardware devices are trying to bridge the gap. I think Ableton has been able to bridge that gap quite well but this is coming from someone who has struggled to grasp that specific DAW. However, for most DAWs, that bridge has not been built yet and thats why I do not use Digital Performer or Reason to compose much.

 

There are too many steps involved working with a DAW to maintain a creative state.

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...You could argue that a DAW is an instrument and I would agree with that with something like Ableton LIVE where the hardware devices are trying to bridge the gap. I think Ableton has been able to bridge that gap quite well but this is coming from someone who has struggled to grasp that specific DAW...

 

somehow; I can't get nostalgic for the "ole days" of linear multi-track tape recording as I could never freaking afford studio time in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. It was always a dream that I could get the opportunity to construct pieces with multiple layers like, oh I dunno . . . like John & Paul. Sitting in Composition 202 class in 1978 trying to think of how to express the . . . stuff with no money . . .

fast forward to 2007 and I get a copy of LIVE6

fast forward : several years later of learning how to use this very complex software & all the while LIVE(as software) is evolving

 

What I'm doing in 2015 is thinking of "looping" a "scene" as an A section, B sections, B2 sections, etc . . . and I'm free as a composer ! (but they're called "producers these days)

Everything I wanted to do with multi-tracking in 1976 is here; everything

I can structure an idea horizontally, vertically, perhaps both at the same time . . . and speaking of "time" - it's whatever I want it to be - warped to a specific time sig, poly'ed, straight, swinging . . .

 

This is the golden age of music-making - recco that you make the most of it

Meanwhile, I'm gonna doing my thing . . . really f&%king loudly !

 

peace

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For example - it's tedious, but I've spent a lot of time setting up basic combo program templates. Bass, drums, keys, a couple of audio tracks with all the effects tweaked for my vocals and my acoustic guitar, and a couple of synths with controllers mapped so I can jump in and go, all of it familiar and becoming more second nature all the time.

 

I can't help but think we're all just scratching the surface of the digital age. For example, I was thinking about those big mixers of yesteryear, and the commonality of control surfaces with eight channels. What if your starting template did everything in banks of eight--eight potential channels of drums, eight of guitars, eight of percussion, eight for vocals, etc. etc. So when you started, you'd just choose the appropriate bank for recording each track.

 

Where this would fall apart is after you have lots of tracks recorded, and are jumping back and forth among tracks to balance them. But in that case, you could then just delete the channels you aren't using and slim down your mixer.

 

I haven't tried this, so it may be a really stupid idea. Or it may be great. But I can't help but wonder how many other ideas I haven't thought of that would be incredibly useful - if only I could think of them smiley-happy

 

 

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somehow; I can't get nostalgic for the "ole days" of linear multi-track tape recording as I could never freaking afford studio time in the 70s, 80s or even the 90s. It was always a dream that I could get the opportunity to construct pieces with multiple layers like, oh I dunno . . . like John & Paul. Sitting in Composition 202 class in 1978 trying to think of how to express the . . . stuff with no money . . .

fast forward to 2007 and I get a copy of LIVE6

fast forward : several years later of learning how to use this very complex software & all the while LIVE(as software) is evolving

 

What I'm doing in 2015 is thinking of "looping" a "scene" as an A section, B sections, B2 sections, etc . . . and I'm free as a composer ! (but they're called "producers these days)

Everything I wanted to do with multi-tracking in 1976 is here; everything

I can structure an idea horizontally, vertically, perhaps both at the same time . . . and speaking of "time" - it's whatever I want it to be - warped to a specific time sig, poly'ed, straight, swinging . . .

 

This is the golden age of music-making - recco that you make the most of it

Meanwhile, I'm gonna doing my thing . . . really f&%king loudly !

 

peace

 

I agree. There has never been a better time to be involved with music. I also think us "old" geezers (those of us who actually used linear recording) have a hard time getting over the concept that a controller like Ableton`s Push is an instrument. Us old timers need to get over the idea that you need to play a guitar or keyboard to make music.

 

Kids today are using non-traditional instruments to make music. Its inspiring and frightening to someone like me who grew up taking piano lessons, learning all the theory, going to an actual college for music, la la la…. its a brave new world and companies like Ableton are definitely bridging that gap between pure instantaneous creativity and actual production of music.

 

You can definitely continue to make music in a linear fashion with traditional instruments but I think someone like myself has to completely re-program oneself to grasp the new technology. I`m having a hard enough time getting over all the options a traditional DAW offers. I`m using DP8 these days and its nuts. The guitar amp sims are quite good, the included plugs are great, and of course when you throw something like Komplete 9 into the mix, which I own and just scratching the surface with, you realize the rabbit hole is very deep. Its a scary place to be… and exciting.

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