Members RoadRanger Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Kinda funny, at a local boat museum they have several smaller launches that run on boiling naptha instead of water as they didn't require a licensed steamboiler operator on board. Obviously boiling flammable naptha is much safer than boiling water . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha_launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 OP, with no disrespect intended towards you or your builder, you might want to look at your builder's general commercial liabilty insurance policy, both as to the policy limits and as to "completed operations" coverage. Your own insurance agent can probably help decipher the coverage language. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jealousblues Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Any wind loads that might occur during your event. Without uplift resisting design elements, that would become one hell of a dangerous sail that would cause great damage if it (or pieces of it) hit anybody. Even a lightweight tent structure can be dangerous in the wind, I recall a fatality happening last year overseas during a windstorm. this happened here in St. Louis a month or so ago.One of the bars outside the stadium had a tent in their parking lot and wind pulled it up and I suppose over and it killed a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 that remids me of Ozark Woodstock tribute festival I did back in the 90's It was hill billy engineering at it's finest. Yeah. That was the second stage, quickly banged together. The Showmobile mentioned in another thread was used as the main stage. Now they use the Showmobile as the second stage, and They have built a permanent mainstage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members CliffordN Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Looks like you need some good old mobile home tie-downs to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Rule number one for a steam engine is know that your pressure vessel is capable of withstanding operating pressure + S.F.Rule number two is to be sure your pressure relief and any interlocks (for an oil or gas fired steam source) are fully operational. Well I guess it depends on where you want to start the rule numbering. I was speaking of safe operation Rule number one through three, have enough water. Before considering operation of any machine from a Steam traction engine, to a rental car there are things to do. On a Steam traction engine I want to know the owner, I want to know the history. Then I want to know about the results of the last ultrasonic testing and hydro testing. Is the pressure gauge accurate? Do I want to install my gauge in addition, or instead? and more. The boiler has been inspected and certified by the state for a certain pressure (In NY and PA) I obey that but state or local inspections are not an issue. I am relying on the owner, the club, and myself to keep me and those around me safe. After that I need to be dressed right. Long sleeve cotton shirt, gloves, hat, jeans good shoes. It is important to have had a good breakfast, and be well rested. Back to the engine. Are the greats installed correctly? do the latches for dropping them (and the fire) work correctly? All try cocks are checked, the sight glass is checked to prove that the valves to and from it are not clogged. (It is possible to have water in the sight glass and none in the boiler if these valves are not working properly) As the fire is coming up there are more things to check. Once I have steam I need to test both water injectors or the injector and a hand pump. For safety you need two ways to get water into the pressurized boiler (Remember rule number one) In this area it is against the rules to pass steam through a certified pressure relief but most engine men believe that you should, so they run two. One is for the state, the other is for there own safety and state of mind. I need to pull the lever and see that steam passes through the "working safety" There are a number of other things to check before moving the engine. Bottom line, if my water is ever low, or if I don't answer the question "What is rule number one" with "Have enough water" I will receive help in safely shutting down the engine and I will be asked to leave the grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Absolutely, there is more to safety than just a few rules, safety is a state of mind too. You mention sight glasses being accurate... false sense of security due to a bad indication (and lack of verification) is probably more common than we might realize. IIRC, 3 Mile Island started out because of something as simple as this, and the Japanese meltdown was compounded by lack of good data or by urreliable, inaccurate data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 19, 2012 winds are forcasted at 5-10 miles an hr with no rain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 19, 2012 Members Share Posted June 19, 2012 winds are forcasted at 5-10 miles an hr with no rain Forcast and actual often have a difference between them. Ask the folks in Indiana... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 19, 2012 Members Share Posted June 19, 2012 Forcast and actual often have a difference between them. Ask the folks in Indiana...I was going to mention that wind forecasts are notoriously inaccurace once you go out an hour or two. Anybody who's into aviation or sailing knows that, perhaps the hard way . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 19, 2012 Members Share Posted June 19, 2012 I was going to mention that wind forecasts are notoriously inaccurace once you go out an hour or two. Anybody who's into aviation or sailing knows that, perhaps the hard way . Good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted June 19, 2012 Members Share Posted June 19, 2012 I was going to mention that wind forecasts are notoriously inaccurace once you go out an hour or two. Anybody who's into aviation or sailing knows that, perhaps the hard way . I seem to remember a small problem with the Fastnet races in 1979. Nothing major of course, except for 15 dead, scores of abandoned boats, and a complete re-write of all the associated rules.... Nothing ever happens at shows though. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 26, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 26, 2012 We ended up ordering a 10 mil 30x 40 tarp and rigging it up on 3x3 beams, and created an arch support for underneath it in the middle. I wouldnt do this again if I could avoid it, but we did get some showers that it held up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted June 26, 2012 Members Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would have contacted your local tent rental store. You tell them your needs and they'll come set-up and you don't have to worry. Just the other weekend I was in a 150'x65' tent without any center support post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted June 26, 2012 Members Share Posted June 26, 2012 I would have contacted your local tent rental store. You tell them your needs and they'll come set-up and you don't have to worry. Just the other weekend I was in a 150'x65' tent without any center support post.I sometimes used to haul them tents around on flatbed. You'd not believe what they cost to rent . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted June 26, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted June 26, 2012 It wasn't pretty. Basically a couple flatbed trailers they built a roof over. Ticketed carpenters, support beam and that pole in the middle. Not sure if the roof could have been sloped less... Perfect example of a disaster just waiting for the right moment. No diagonal bracing in the structure, and the two external braces only guarantee that the roof would come down directly toward the photographer. Tarps are not sheathing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 26, 2012 Members Share Posted June 26, 2012 Perfect example of a disaster just waiting for the right moment. No diagonal bracing in the structure, and the two external braces only guarantee that the roof would come down directly toward the photographer. Tarps are not sheathing. Can you say parallelagram? I know you could Without sheer bracing, like Craig mentioned, that structure couldn't withstand any lateral loading (think wind and roof tarp). I've seen more temp bracing on a construction site by a framing crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted June 29, 2012 Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 a 30x 20 tent with 11 ft legs costs $500 to rent, installed delivered and pickup unless your in the boonies. 20x20 or 20x30 tens are pretty inexpensive to rent, jump to a 20x40 it doubles.I also looks better than that crap and passes fire inspection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted June 29, 2012 Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 a 30x 20 tent with 11 ft legs costs $500 to rent, installed delivered and pickup unless your in the boonies. 20x20 or 20x30 tens are pretty inexpensive to rent, jump to a 20x40 it doubles.I also looks better than that crap and passes fire inspection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 At the time I was having trouble finding a tent, the highest I could find was 8' tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 29, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 here is another picture and one at night for fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 29, 2012 Members Share Posted June 29, 2012 Pray for no wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted July 2, 2012 CMS Author Share Posted July 2, 2012 That's a hot mess. I'm glad nothing went wrong, but please learn from this and don't use homemade solutions when the lives of other people are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 That's a hot mess. I'm glad nothing went wrong, but please learn from this and don't use homemade solutions when the lives of other people are involved. One problem with striving to do it right with a smaller stage is that professional canopy systems seem to scarce for smaller stages. Most of the pro canopy systems on the market seem to be behemoths... difficult to find anything smaller than 40ft. x 40ft.: http://www.appliednn.com/stageroof.php We Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 2, 2012 Members Share Posted July 2, 2012 Not a smaller canopy system that you can fly sound, lights, and video off of. The size and structure grows and evolves to compliment the production that it will liklely carry. For a smaller system where lights, sound and video aren't of the flying format (ie. just a roof), I suggest looking at any of the professional tent companies. The cost will be more in line, the height will not be as tall which simplifies the wind loading, and the structure will be approved for both fire and wind loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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