Members rsn62 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have a sound guy installing a 28x20 stage outdoor but I need to cover it somehow.Does anyone have any suggestions for me? I would like to have a light truss visable by the audience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 It wasn't pretty. Basically a couple flatbed trailers they built a roof over. Ticketed carpenters, support beam and that pole in the middle. Not sure if the roof could have been sloped less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Something like this. http://www.shelters-to-go.com/high1galv.shtml The fittings can be turned around to make a shed roof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Any wind loads that might occur during your event. Without uplift resisting design elements, that would become one hell of a dangerous sail that would cause great damage if it (or pieces of it) hit anybody. Even a lightweight tent structure can be dangerous in the wind, I recall a fatality happening last year overseas during a windstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Something like this. http://www.shelters-to-go.com/high1galv.shtml The fittings can be turned around to make a shed roof. Note their warnings that are right in line with mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 there are sun shades available that batten down to box trussing..assuming you have truss around the parameter of the stage. we did this at our last event and it saved a lot of headache and heat. lights were totally visible under it. i will see if i can find out where it was obtained from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 It wasn't pretty. Basically a couple flatbed trailers they built a roof over. Ticketed carpenters, support beam and that pole in the middle. Not sure if the roof could have been sloped less... that remids me of Ozark Woodstock tribute festival I did back in the 90's It was hill billy engineering at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 That wouldnt provide any coverage in a rain storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 We threw a tarp on the left wall as well. It wasn't bad. You can see the mains & monitors are pulled back, that was far enough to keep everything out of the rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 there are sun shades available that batten down to box trussing..assuming you have truss around the parameter of the stage. we did this at our last event and it saved a lot of headache and heat. lights were totally visible under it.i will see if i can find out where it was obtained from. Was the truss structure certified for use with the tarp-cover? Unless it's specifically designed and certified to be used with a skin (including break-aways, uplift, sheer and torsion resisting reinforcements) no coverings should ever be used. Note that many of the recent failures of such structures involved structures not correctly certified, designed or constructed for use with the installed covers. They GREATLY increase the loads on the structure and in ways that must be accomodated in specific ways. Just wait, new and strict regulations are on their way I'm pretty sure. Overdue IMO, I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 17, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I sent that photo to my worker and he actually likes the idea and wants to build something for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pro Sound Guy Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Here is a pic of the Radio Head concert stage setup just before it collapsed.Hope this insert works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 I have a sound guy installing a 28x20 stage outdoor If it's a permanent or semi-permanent structure, then constructing the structure will likely require a building permit, accompanied by certified engineering plans. If the structure will be constructed in a floodplain, then likely a no-rise certificate will need to be filed. Any electrical service associated with the stage installation will likely require a permit and the work will likely require a licensed electrician and likely will need to comply with outdoor electrical service codes. If it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 You may well be putting yourself at great risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 17, 2012 Members Share Posted June 17, 2012 Note their warnings that are right in line with mine. These are used a lot at antique engine shows, but antique engines are dangerous. I also see them at antique tractor shows. Antique tractors are started while standing in front of them with no one on the seat or at the controls. They are dangerous. When set up correctly they will stand fast in a high wind while the tarp tears lose and sales away. This is dangerous. They should not be used on a sound stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 These are used a lot at antique engine shows, but antique engines are dangerous. I also see them at antique tractor shows. Antique tractors are started while standing in front of them with no one on the seat or at the controls. They are dangerous.When set up correctly they will stand fast in a high wind while the tarp tears lose and sales away. This is dangerous. They should not be used on a sound stage. The tarp better tear loose, the ones that recently have not have caused a lot of damage and injury. Of course there's inherent risk in old iron shows, generally the risk is more limited to the participants than the spectators. I also know that insurance is becoming harder and harder to obtain for these shows. It's also worth mentioning that for steam driven engines, a current boiler permit and certification is generally required because of the potential for damage and the radius at which the damage may occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Once I have checked out a steam tractor (Traction engine) or steam roller and know it is safe, I find that they are a lot of fun to drive. 90% of the time I am a participant, usually with a old gas engine but some times with steam. I enjoy it a lot. Most shows require you to go to school and prove you are qualified before you fire a boiler at there show. Rule one two and three are know you have enough water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 If it's for a weekend then call a local tent company and have them set it up. If it's permenant, well, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 If it's a permanent or semi-permanent structure, then constructing the structure will likely require a building permit, accompanied by certified engineering plans. If the structure will be constructed in a floodplain, then likely a no-rise certificate will need to be filed. Any electrical service associated with the stage installation will likely require a permit and the work will likely require a licensed electrician and likely will need to comply with outdoor electrical service codes. If it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Oh, no worries about high wind conditions in the mountains during a rain storm. 560+ sq. ft. of sail area, top and bottom exposed? Anchored to or with what? Best wishes, and good luck. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Once I have checked out a steam tractor (Traction engine) or steam roller and know it is safe, I find that they are a lot of fun to drive. 90% of the time I am a participant, usually with a old gas engine but some times with steam. I enjoy it a lot.Most shows require you to go to school and prove you are qualified before you fire a boiler at there show. Rule one two and three are know you have enough water. Rule number one for a steam engine is know that your pressure vessel is capable of withstanding operating pressure + S.F.Rule number two is to be sure your pressure relief and any interlocks (for an oil or gas fired steam source) are fully operational. In CA, IIRC anything over 400,000 BTU/Hr requires a state or underwriter's inspection. That's not a very big source. http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/771.html The reasoning for the rules is to prevent catastrophic failure of the pressure vessel. Since many old steam tractors and traction engines have pressure vessles that may heve been weakend by corrosion or damage from an unknown operation history, it seems to be prudent and wise reasoning. I have operated several medium sized water tube hot water process & heating boilers over the past 25 years and have great respect for what can happen when things do not go well. Steam boilers are for more dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 We only need a building permit if it is attached to a permanent structure. The sound guy has 4x4 foot stage sections and he is going to do the install. Also this is on a ski mountain where there are 480 3 phase boxes all over for the snow machines and the ops manager there is licensed and capable of installing power sources. I had the sound tech converse with him today and everything is good. My builder likes the tarp over the stage idea and wants to build a slanted rain cover. How do you plan on using the 480 volt 3 phase power with your rig? This is not somethingto guess about, nor is it something an electrician without experienced with grouning of derived sources should be messing with. Does your builder have experience with wind loading and calculating uplift restraint? I would hate for my gear (or me) to be on a stage that was suddenly upset by an unexpected and poorly planned for wind event... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsn62 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Oh, no worries about high wind conditions in the mountains during a rain storm. 560+ sq. ft. of sail area, top and bottom exposed? Anchored to or with what? Best wishes, and good luck. Mark C. oh I am definately concerned, my builder states that he has done something simular before. Im not sure of the anchor but possibly where the poles are mounted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have operated several medium sized water tube hot water process & heating boilers over the past 25 years and have great respect for what can happen when things do not go well. Steam boilers are for more dangerous. Well yeah! As I recall, the expansion potential for steam is approx. 1600X it's contained (water) volume (at sea level). Being: A gallon of water heated to above 212F under pressure would expand to somewhere around 200 cubic feet of scalding steam if released... and a hundred gallons of water heated to the point of steam... that's somewhere around 20,000 cubic feet of steam. I suspect a 100 gallon steam boiler could be fairly small... being possibly less than 15 cubic feet... so something that's contained in less than 15 cubic feet that could expand to 20,000 cubic feet if it had an opportunity to do so... would probably clear a path if things with the containment vessel went wrong. Some examples I found on-line: http://www.flickr.com/photos/alaska_paul/315093679/ http://i2.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/1c/bd/e5_2.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted June 18, 2012 Members Share Posted June 18, 2012 Well yeah! As I recall, the expansion potential for steam is approx. 1600X it's contained (water) volume (at sea level). Being: A gallon of water heated to above 212F under pressure would expand to somewhere around 200 cubic feet of scalding steam if released... and a hundred gallons of water heated to the point of steam... that's somewhere around 20,000 cubic feet of steam. I suspect a 100 gallon steam boiler could be fairly small... being possibly less than 15 cubic feet... so something that's contained in less than 15 cubic feet that could expand to 20,000 cubic feet if it had an opportunity to do so... would probably clear a path if things with the containment vessel went wrong. Mark, to tie this to the NEC thread, the development of boiler and pressure vessel safety codes and inspections grew directly out of lobbying efforts by the insurance industry in the late 19th century. (I almost said due to pressure from the insurance industry, but I caught myself.) In at least some states (maybe even a majority, I don't know for sure) some state licensed boiler inspectors are employees of insurance companies. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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