Rookie home studio build - Much help needed! Much love in return!

[Cruzall]

Hi dudes/dudettes,

 

I'm building a new home studio, as you might have guessed from the thread title. I have included MAX prices for each piece of equipment, but can rearrange if others are under. UK links only please.

 

I need to record:

-Male vocals

-Electric + electric-acoustic guitar (only one guitar at a time)

-MIDI input

for high quality demos & will be editing in Ableton Live 9.

 

The 3 main inputs will be 1)Vocals, 2) Guitar, 3) MIDI controller.

 

 

 

 

SO, in terms of equipment, I have been thinking :

 

- Good quality vocal mic MAX £300 (e.g. Shure sm7B SHURE SM7B MICROPHONE Studio, cardioid, dynamic)

 

-Possibly another mic for guitars MAX £120 (e.g. CAD Audio e60 CAD Audio e60 300 Ohm Cardioid Condenser Microphone: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments)

 

-DI/ straight line in from guitar MAX ~£100 (no clue)

 

-Pre-amp MAX £180 (had looked at SHURE X2U XLR TO USB ADAPTER MICROPHONE PREAMPLIFIER USB, single channel, headphone output, phantom for Shure sm7b, but if I need more inputs/outputs, better off getting another surely?)

 

-Midi controller that has synth keys, launch pads, knobs, preferably built for Ableton Live 9 MAX £100 (e.g. Novation launcher Novation Launchkey Mini Keyboard / Synth Controller with 25 Launchpad Buttons Black: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments OR Akai APC AKAI APC KEY 25 | Ableton Live USB MIDI Controller with Keyboard: Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments)

 

-(Audio interface)? MAX ~same-as-preamp=£180

 

-(Mixing desk)? MAX £200

 

-(Power conditioner)? MAX £100

 

-(Control surface)? MAX £100

 

Not overly sure about these last 4, are they dependable on the type of preamp? Don't shoot, rookie at home recording here.

 

 

ALSO my external usb soundcard for my laptop is abysmal, would appreciate suggestions for reasonably low priced alternatives. MAX £50

 

I have: laptop with Ableton Live 9, speakers, mic stand, pop shield, guitar amp with 1 lineout port. (Laughed after typing that sentence ). Need. Help.

 

Laptop specs:

Windows 8.1 64 bit

Intel Core i5-2430M CPU @ 2.40GHz (4 CPUs)

8GB RAM

 

A serious huge thanks to you for helping out

 

Cruzall

[davie]

If you're a beginner at recording, then I would recommend keeping your equipment to a minimum. Mixing desk, power conditioner, control surface aren't really necessary.I would save your money.

 

All you really need is:

(1) an audio interface

(2) microphone

(3) a MIDI keyboard.

 

For audio interface I would recommend the Focusrite Scarlett 2i4. It has two microphone inputs with built-in preamp as well as MIDI input. You can also record electric guitar with those inputs.

 

For microphone, it will vary on what you want to do exactly and also depends on the singers voice. Shure SM58 is good for a lot rock singers, Shure SM7B is also good especially for male rock singers, but is on the more expensive side and may need a relatively good external mic preamp. For a moderate pop vocal a condenser mic might be a better choice, like the Rode NT1a, which can still sound good without an external mic preamp.

 

For MIDI controller, it depends on how many keys you want and what type of features you want (eg. knobs, trigger pads, faders, etc). They either come in 25, 49, 61 or 88 keys. It really depends on what you want to do exactly. AKAI is a pretty good brand for synth keyboard MIDI controllers.

[Cruzall]

Cheers Davie,

 

I'm not a beginner at recording, but am at building a home studio!

 

It looks as if I'm considering

 

-Shure SM7B

-Shure SM57/58

-Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 USB Audio Interface + Ableton Live Lite Audio Production Software at Juno Records

-Novation launchkey 49 Novation Launchkey 49 Keyboard Controller + Ableton Live Lite Music Production Software at Juno Records

 

Will I need anything else? (Soundcard for example..)

 

Any thoughts on the differences between the Shure SM57 and SM58?

[davie]

I think the SM57 and SM58 are pretty similar. I heard the main difference is the mic grill. People usually tend to use 57 for miking guitar amps and snare drums. While a 58 is mainly used as a live vocal mic. But there are some cases where vocalists have used the 57 for vocals. It mainly depends on how the singer's voice sounds when using that mic.

 

An additional soundcard is not necessary because the audio interface is basically a soundcard but external. If you're making a home studio I'm assuming you will also focus on mixing songs. If you're planning on doing a lot of mixing then I would put some detail into speaker arrangement and position, and also room acoustics. I think those should take priority before even considering getting a control surface/mixing console.

 

What speakers are you using?

 

 

[Phil O'Keefe]

What type of music are you going to be recording, and what is your voice like?

 

What guitar amp do you have?

 

What acoustic guitar are you using?

 

[WRGKMC]

I didn't see the #1 most important item on your list. Maybe you have a decent set already but decent studio monitors are the most important item on the list of must have items. Without them you are completely blind at what you're trying to mix. You can have the best tracks ever recorded, but without monitors to hear them properly all your mixing decisions are compromised.

 

Computer monitors, Hi Fi gear or Headphones are no substitute. They all color the sound skew the image and you wind up guessing might work best. 9 times out of 10 those guesses aren't even close and you wind up working very hard using trial and error, never knowing what the true results will be. Studio monitors produce a flat response at the proper levels so the soundscape is a big step up from consumer stuff. When the mix sounds good on those it pretty guarantees it will sound good on other playback systems.

 

Luckily there are some very good budget monitors being made now that wont bust your wallet too badly. I bought a set of these on sale for $200 a pair and was very pleased with the results I can get from them. I do have others but can recommend these as being a super buy in the lower end stuff. Not the cheapest, there are a few others out there that can be had for less, but thay wont be bi amped 70w or anything close to that.

 

http://www.m-audio.com/products/view/bx5-d2#.VRMGP010xpg

 

Your other choices are OK. I'd likely go for a different interface. The Focusrite is good stuff but way too overpriced for only two channels. I can buy an Tascam US1800 for $244 new and have 16 channels and record a full band if needed. http://www.fullcompass.com/product/392927.html?utm_source=googleps&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=googleps&gclid=CLPivPuZxMQCFZGIaQod0nsA0Q

 

For midi I'd just use a USB midi adaptor. You can pick those up for under $10 http://www.amazon.com/CABLE-MUSIC-KEYBOARD-ADAPTER-CONVERTER/dp/B00KZD55L6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427310776&sr=8-1&keywords=midi+to+usb+adaptor

 

If you need more then 16 midi channels you can just buy another. Of course if you are a keyboard player and have allot of gear then going with a separate midi interface might be better. You can still buy those cheap beginning with a simple 2 channel. I see these kind on EBay all the time for around $25 http://www.amazon.com/M-Audio-MIDISport-2x2-Anniversary-Edition/dp/B001D5D454/ref=sr_1_10?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1427310917&sr=1-10

 

Just having 2 channels of audio inputs becomes limiting immediately. That's why EBay is loaded with thousands of them being sold. I really couldn't do what I do with less then 4 channels. I use stereo electric drum machines and at least one guitar recorded with stereo effects so I need a minimum of 4 channels laying down my 1st two parts. Having all your gear connected up without having to unplug form the unit every time you do a new track is a huge convenience worth many times over that extra money.

 

You'll likely save that much on cords wearing out plugging and unplugging them. And like I said, you may want to record a band of musicians. You can multi track with a 2 channel no problem. You can do 2 + 2 + 2 etc till you get all the tracks done, but like you will want at least 4 micas on drums, one one bass, 2 on guitar and a scratch vocal. That's 8 right there. with a 4 piece band an 6 or 8 mics on the drums you'd quickly want 16 channels and not having them you wind up in a compromised situation. The Tascam will do 16 and only cost you $45 more.then a 2 channel.

[Cruzall]

I've gone for

-Shure SM7b through a Cloudlifter CL-1 for vocals

-Shure SM57 for guitar

-Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 preamp

-Akai MPK225 midi controller

Davie & WRGKMC: -KRK Rokit RP5 G3 studio monitors

-Audio-Technica ATH-M50X headphones

 

Phil, the music I'll be recording is singer-songwriter tracks (similar to James Bay) and what can only be described as a blend of Greenday meets Bowie. I can't really describe my voice.. will rely on the feedback of others! Think the SM7 suits me well though.

My guitar amp is an exceedingly average Kustom KGA10FX, but I do have a Micro Cube as well.

Guitar will be either a Martin DXAE or OMXAE with Fishman Sonitone USB™ electronics.

 

WRGKMC, some Amazon reviews of the Tascam put me off, I think the 2i4 is suitable for what I plan to do with it (fingers crossed! Otherwise feel free to say you told me so!)

 

 

 

[WRGKMC]

WRGKMC, some Amazon reviews of the Tascam put me off, I think the 2i4 is suitable for what I plan to do with it (fingers crossed! Otherwise feel free to say you told me so!)

 

That's cool. You'll find it usually has something to do with the specs on the gear. All USB interfaces are feeding through a master slave port and the CPU can throttle the data flow whenever it needs to. If you don't have a computer that meets the system requirements of the interface and try and make it work on something like a laptop that's starved for power and horsepower, you should expect to get poor results form anything you try. The drivers and how they are written are a huge part of that too.

 

I do see 2 channels as very limiting even doing solo stuff and with the premium they charge on that 2 channel, you might want to evaluate and compare the specs of a few more. I bought 4 eight channel cards for my setup. They normally sold for close to $300 each and I paid $50 apiece used. They are PCI cards that plug directly into the buss though and allot of people don't want to open their computers and install cards or have a laptop. I like their low latency and will only go to USB as a last resort.

 

The positive for the focusrite is it uses a balanced differential preamp which is a good design and should yield quality results. You can kind of think of that as a Humbucker design that's designed to cancel noise and leave the pure signal.

 

(the converters are about the same as all budget stuff so its not like the sound quality varies between any of them. You have to get into the really high end stuff to really see a difference)

 

The only negative I can see is the SM7b is a dynamic mic and it needs allot of preamp gain to get a decent signal level. The Focusrite has a +55db gain with the +10db switch engaged and only +35 with the switch set for -10db

 

From people I know who own a SM7b, they tell me they prefer using higher gain preamps. This is for two reasons. Your preamp is usually going to sound best running between 50~75% of the preamp max. Above that and you get hiss and noise with the preamp cranked to max, below and you wind up with poor dynamics and a lack of presence from a mic.

 

Maybe Phil has some more input here. I think he's probably used them enough to know what preamps/interfaces they work best with. You may be perfectly fine because these two extremes are all over the place on preamps and I cant say for sure how you'll pan out. The SM7B does have passive attenuators that can roll off lows making the signal even weaker when engaged but you're just going to have to try it to know.

 

If you can have a wind screen and 6~9" between you and the mic and still get the meters to just begin to peak into the red when singing loud then you have enough headroom to back the gain down and stay in the green.

 

If you're barely moving the meters at that distance and having to crank the gain way up, you may wind up with allot of additional noise and/or have low track gains. You may need to get an external preamp with say 70db gain so wind up running it around 50db for a clean recording.

 

The SM57 should be a hotter mic and since it will likely wind up recording an amp you shouldn't have any gain issues. Again, these are just possibilities you may run in to. Be sure to let us know in either case. Allot of people buy stuff and they never give feedback on both the positives and negatives that can often times be helpful for others.

[davie]

KRK RP5 should be good. I also have those, but the G2 version. I've never tried the Cloudlifter, but I heard its really good for adding a lot of clean gain. Using the SM7B will always need an extra mic preamp aside from the built-in preamps from the interface. The SM7B is also my main vocal mic, it needs at least 60db of gain to sound good. The Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 should be sufficient as long as you only plan on recording no more than two tracks at one time.