Sostenuto

[senorblues]

I'm anticipating a "no" answer to this question, but is there any keyboard out there that has this feature? The ability to layer sounds would make that option quite useful.

 

 

[MickeyKeys]

I'm anticipating a "no" answer to this question, but is there any keyboard out there that has this feature? The ability to layer sounds would make that option quite useful.

 

I could be wrong . . . it's happened before

 

However, Sostenuto IS a MIDI command (somewhere around 66 I believe). Therefore it should be do-able with almost any MIDI-enabled board and a little menu/manual diving.

 

Strikes me that if you have a keyboard with an (assignable) second footswitch jack - AND a second footswitch, you could do this via the second jack . . . I mean you could probably even do it with the primary jack, but then you'd be sacrificing sustain.

 

No doubt there is someone else out there who can clarify this and/or smack me down if I am off base.

 

[trevcda]

You would need to check the MIDI implementation chart of a keyboard you were contemplating and see if it responded to CC66 (sostenuto). If it did then you would need a pedal with a programmable MIDI output. I can't think of anything except for maybe a home digital piano that actually had a jack for that purpose though.

[senorblues]

Busted . . . . I guess it's obvious that I'm not midi literate. More of a plug-and-play guy. I have an S70-SX and hooked up a second volume pedal to control one of the four voices independently. I suspect it could be used alternatively for sostenuto if I get to the next level of keyboard adjustments.

[MickeyKeys]

Busted . . . . I guess it's obvious that I'm not midi literate. More of a plug-and-play guy. I have an S70-SX and hooked up a second volume pedal to control one of the four voices independently. I suspect it could be used alternatively for sostenuto if I get to the next level of keyboard adjustments.

Sostenuto is really something that would be controlled by a sustain type foot switch rather than a CC/volume pedal. On my old RD stage piano and the PC3 I'm using now, it's easy to set up, and it doesn't necessarily have to be global.... it can easily be assigned to individual setups/combis/performances (depending on whether you speak Roland, Kurzweil, Korg, or Yamaha, LOL). Never felt the need myself, but now that you mention it, I can sure see that it'd come in handy. I don't know if your S70SX can do it... I'm guessing it should be able to as I think it may have more workstation features than a basic stage piano.

[trevcda]

You have it on your S70-SX. Look on page 148 of your reference manual. I believe all you have to do is assign that function to the assignable foot switch connection on the back, if it's not already set up. You're halfway there!

 

Refer to page 139 in the controller section and work backwards to find out how to get into this section and assign the correct CC# to that input. Remember, as Mickey pointed out, that this should be to a foot switch (on/off) not a foot controller (continuously variable).

[senorblues]

I have four pedals so far. My mod wheel is controlled by an on/off pedal, aforementioned selective volume, sustain pedal, and volume. Not sure I would want to give up any of these (assuming there's a limit to how many I can have), but I guess I should have thought of that before I asked the question . . . .

[trevcda]

You could still access that function through an outboard programmable midi pedal. You could probably incorporate a number of functions into something like an FC1010, but that would be a lot of hardware underfoot.

[senorblues]

You could still access that function through an outboard programmable midi pedal. You could probably incorporate a number of functions into something like an FC1010' date=' but that would be a lot of hardware underfoot.[/quote']

 

Indeed. I'm running out of floor space as it is. Can't hardly tap my feet to keep time . . . .

[JeffLearman]

Sadly, some DPs don't implement it, so even if you sent CC66, it wouldn't do the right thing. (Sadly, many pianos, especially verticals, don't implement it right either, using it as a bass sustain instead -- a useless feature if I ever saw one.)

 

My trusty old MR76 implements it, and I've used it, and I really like it for certain things, but I've never got in the habit of using it regularly. My grand piano also has it, but the pedals are a tad too close and I keep catching the sole of one shoe when I press the other pedal. ("First World problem," right?)

 

I find it's actually pretty natural to get the hang of, too, and is great for certain kinds of striding, where I want to hold a bass note but vary the harmony in the chords above it. Sustain turns it into mud; sostenuto is perfect.

 

My CP4 supports it, but I haven't used it yet because Yamaha uses the idiotic normally-closed scheme for footswitches, and I have my pedals set up a certain way, and the ones in the right locations aren't switchable. Maybe someday, but frankly I'd rather have dual sustain pedals (simply so with my two-tier rig, I can use either foot to sustain either tier, so the foot matches whatever hand is on that tier. It's an old habit borne of necessity. Not long ago due to a pedal failure I found I could now actually play cross-footed without too much trouble, so maybe I could update and simplify.)

[Vito Corleone]

I'm anticipating a "no" answer to this question' date=' but is there any keyboard out there that has this feature? The ability to layer sounds would make that option quite useful. [/quote'] What, exactly, are you trying to accomplish by using sostenuto with layered sounds? I ask because maybe there is some other path to achieving the same result.

[senorblues]

One solution is two keyboards - play a chord on one with a sustain pedal, then play a line in a different voice on the other. Another - If one voice is in a different register - is to use a split and disable the sustain pedal for the second voice.

[Vito Corleone]

With either a split or a layer you should be able to assign the sustain pedal to operate only for the voice you want it to control. Is that what you're trying to do?

[JeffLearman]

What' date=' exactly, are you trying to accomplish by using sostenuto with layered sounds? I ask because maybe there is some other path to achieving the same result.[/quote']Good point -- I probably missed the whole point of the post, which is probably about keyboards that have two pedal inputs, rather than sostenudo feature.

 

My trusty MR76 takes up to FOUR pedals! Two TRS jacks, two pedals per jack. The CP4 has one half-pedal sustain jack, one expression pedal input, and two assignable switch-pedal inputs, so it's pretty robust.

[Vito Corleone]

I'm not that familiar with the S70-SX----I assumed the architecture would be more like the Motif---but after a cursory look at the manual it seems you can't assign the pedals separately to the voices in Performance mode (as you can on the Motif and MOX boards)

 

if this is what you are trying to do, one cheaper solution rather than a second board or a new one, would be to add a sound module. The Master Mode on this board appears to be the same as the Motif, and you can assign the pedals separately in this mode. (Page 44 in the manual)

 

depending on what sounds you're trying to get, something like the Roland JV-880 can be had pretty easily for $100 used on EBay, has good bread and butter sounds (most of them) and would give you the option to layer/split even more voices. Lots of other good module options out there too.

[senorblues]

Each of the four voices can be controlled individually in performance mode, but again, layering won't isolate them. A split will.

[Vito Corleone]

Each of the four voices can be controlled individually in performance mode' date=' but again, layering won't isolate them. A split will.[/quote'] Isolate them in what way? I'm not clear on exactly what type of individual control you're trying to achieve here. Can you specifically describe what you want to do?

[wesg]

Jeff, every Yamaha I have ever played - and the list is LONG - auto detects NO/NC pedal during setup. I bet the CP4 does, too. To test, just power up with the damper pedal down. If it operates backwards....it's just like every other Yamaha.

[senorblues]

Here's an example of something that you could do with a sostenuto (although I realize it isn't the way it's traditionally used.) You could play the major chord on a layered organ/banjo, depress the pedal, then play the non-sustained picking while the pedaled organ chord continues underneath. It's easy to deactivate the sustain for the picking part, but playing that part will add notes to the organ chord that you don't want.

 

[Vito Corleone]

Here's an example of something that you could do with a sostenuto (although I realize it isn't the way it's traditionally used.) You could play the major chord on a layered organ/banjo' date=' depress the pedal, then play the non-sustained picking while the pedaled organ chord continues underneath. It's easy to deactivate the sustain for the picking part, but playing that part will add notes to the organ chord that you don't want. [/quote'] Then you'll have to do it in a split and deactivate the sustain from the banjo part. That should do it? Unless you need the banjo chord to sustain as well?

[RockPianoman]

Many digital pianos have all three pedals as an option......

 

Maybe it's assignable in MIDI settings on workstations too......I haven't tried it....if it is, and if you can select a MIDI channel for it, it should work good.....many workstations have assignable footswitches and foot controllers.....

 

Assigning a foot controller (volume pedal) as a data entry slider is killer....any parameter can be controlled by your foot....

[senorblues]

It's funny about three pedals. The only country where consumers expect this is the US. It is strictly a visual thing because the third pedal is rarely a true sostenuto in a vertical. It either operates a practice mute, provides bass sustain (a keyboard "split", essentially), or is tied to the soft pedal, which itself is often semi-useless.

 

So I don't assume that three pedals all function as you would expect, acoustic or digital.