Members senorblues Posted December 30, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 There's no accounting for taste . . . . Can't put a band together!? Of course they did. They were hand picked by the trumpet player from fellow New England Conservatory students ten years ago. And you did see the number of views? (The trumpet player also plays guitar, so I guess they would qualify as a typical guitar trio plus singer, but I prefer their trumpet songs.) Not many four-piece bands have harmony that is that strong. Your link to a solo guitar/singer shows the importance of strong vocals, but I'm curious what sort of gigs he plays. Maybe he gets paid well to do small scale "concerts", but does he make more than wallpaper musicians where strong vocals may not be as critical. I'm asking. I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted December 30, 2014 Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted December 30, 2014 Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 Senor, IMO whoever it was that confused doin g a song in the original key with the cover's accuracy or correctness was way off base-that's the least relevant aspect of covering a song. Some local singers take pride in doing a song in the original key but it would just be better were they to give themselves a break and lower it some. Steve Winwood, Elton John, Billy Joel and many others I know have had to change keys of their hits when performing live. I haven't taped any of the different duo gigs, except for a little bit with the guitar player that I don't yet have online. All I have is some solo piano on my youTube channel which I am going to add to and clean up before I subject anyone here to it. In a previous life I was Andrew the Piano Whore. RE your group Lake Street Dive, I guess all the electric guitar players they auditioned from CL just didn't pan out, so they have to do the best they can with what they have. Don't give a damn bout no trumpet playing band lol. I like daddymack's guy a lot too, for his organic sound and his passion and his Chris Farley vibe, but IMO you could find someone a lot like him in any given area. I would be totally captivated by LSD (ha, clever acronym). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 30, 2014 Moderators Share Posted December 30, 2014 There's no accounting for taste . . . . Can't put a band together!? Of course they did. They were hand picked by the trumpet player from fellow New England Conservatory students ten years ago. And you did see the number of views? (The trumpet player also plays guitar, so I guess they would qualify as a typical guitar trio plus singer, but I prefer their trumpet songs.) Not many four-piece bands have harmony that is that strong. Your link to a solo guitar/singer shows the importance of strong vocals, but I'm curious what sort of gigs he plays. Maybe he gets paid well to do small scale "concerts", but does he make more than wallpaper musicians where strong vocals may not be as critical. I'm asking. I don't know. I have no problem with the harmony aspect, in fact, most of my musical career was in bands with four part harmony capability...by design. And I don't have a problem with sparse instrumentation, but there are limits to how long I would sit around and listen. Their bassist, btw, was interesting....I do love me the doghouse sound! But, more to the point, they are not a solo or a duo, so it has little bearing on the real discussion at hand. Wall paper/ background gigs generally pay okay, but they are generally expecting a high level of virtuosity on the instrument for that kind of gig. FYI, I randomly picked that particular video, I don't know the guy, never heard of him, but I was looking for a good example of a guy who made a cover of an overdone tune in his own image and was playing to an appreciative live audience, not wanking in his livingroom. Plus, I couldn't readily locate any from our own talent pool here...but we have some good examples within the community. I personally decided early in my musical career that I would not do the jukebox band thing, slavishly playing covers note-for-note night-after-night. I had done it a few times [for the $], and always wound up leaving those bands for something less restrictive. It just is not the approach to music that I follow...because there is no creative aspect to it. It is, at least to me, like reciting the alphabet and multiplication tables. I am willing to learn the song that way, but once learned, I need to be able to apply my sensibilities to it, to translate it into something that reflects me. Otherwise, just put on the juke if you want to hear the original... I knew guys who made their living doing what we used to call the 'K-Tel gig' [not the original artists, but you would swear it was], and plenty more doing 'tribute' bands...BLEAGGHH...what a soul killer that has to be....I suppose, you could approach it as 'theater', but still...that just isn't 'me'...and another kind of act I have no desire to listen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted December 30, 2014 Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 but I was looking for a good example of a guy who made a cover of an overdone tune in his own image and was playing to an appreciative live audience' date=' not wanking in his livingroom...[/quote'] A musically savvy friend of mine saw him in Kingston at the Grand Theatre and was very impressed. http://kingstongrand.ca/event/matt-andersen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted December 30, 2014 Members Share Posted December 30, 2014 OK DM, I read your last post. That upright bass player knocked me out! Covered a lot of ground, too. Plus I like to see classical musicians who dispel the stereotype that if you can play classical, you most likely sound too stiff and "white" playing other genres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 31, 2014 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2014 A musically savvy friend of mine saw him in Kingston at the Grand Theatre and was very impressed. http://kingstongrand.ca/event/matt-andersen ah, he's a Canadian, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 31, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 I thought about recording a song in several different keys for comparison, but I'm away from my keyboard for a week, so I can't follow up for a while. Maybe some of you have done something similar and found out that what sounded best for your voice required different chord inversions, fills, etc. It doesn't take much of a drop to sound muddy. Sometimes, you end up with pretty much a new song. I know the changes to BS&T's version of "God Bless the Child", but dropping it a whole step just doesn't sound right after hearing it the other way for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted December 31, 2014 Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 Third-hand advice on pitch : find the key that's most comfortable for you, then raise it a tone or so to get some projection. "God Bless the Child"There is no right. If you have iTunes, check this link and check out the many many versions. Key is the least of the differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted December 31, 2014 Author Members Share Posted December 31, 2014 Third-hand advice on pitch : find the key that's most comfortable for you, then raise it a tone or so to get some projection. "God Bless the Child" There is no right. If you have iTunes, check this link and check out the many many versions. Key is the least of the differences. I played in a band long ago where our agent was also a music director of sorts. I remember him listening to some of our songs and encouraging us to try raising the pitch just for that reason. I guess the point is that key and arrangements go hand in hand, so if you're going to change pitch, be prepared to throw away your expectations of keeping what you had worked out about the song previously. I liked that BS&T arrangement. Sometimes you might as well just learn another song instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted December 31, 2014 Moderators Share Posted December 31, 2014 hmmm, as a solo*, I've rarely had to change an arrangement on a song for just a key change, except where there were those dreaded 'majik' open string notes. On an electronic keyboard, I would not expect there to be any difference, key to key....in fact, so many now have an auto transpose feature, you don't even have to re-learn the changes... *and to me that is one of those wonderful things about playing solo: I don't have to worry what anyone else says, because there is no one else to moan about the key, arrangement, tempo, phrasing... with the band, as the primary arranger, I do have to consider limitations on the instruments in certain keys, but in general, the instruments facing the biggest key related challenges typically are the guitar, the harmonica [fixed vs chromatic] and the horn section when we have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 Doing songs you do well is at least as important as doing songs you like or that you think will please the audience. As an ~ahem~ less than stellar singer who nonetheless has always sung lead on a handful of songs with every band I've been in, I've learned over the years that the songs that I get the best response from are the ones I sing the best and fit my voice. Sounds simple, but the temptation is always so great to push it on a song you don't do as well because you like it so much or its sure to be a dance floor favorite or such. . Of course, the sweet spot is finding the songs that fit all three. But I always suggest finding songs that are a great fit for your vocal abilities and range first, and then go from there. Sing something well enough and you can sell anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 Definitely agree that a song that hits all three is ideal but my experience is that go for what the audience will like above all else. For example I don't really like "sweet caroline", don't sing it particularly well but on New Years eve I used it as my encore and ony had to play the opening couple of bars and everyone on their drunken feet singing their hearts out, like I knew they would be. So I use a "weighting" to each song in order; crowd appeal, my ability to sing/play it and last my own likes. Wish it was the opposite though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 2, 2015 Members Share Posted January 2, 2015 Definitely agree that a song that hits all three is ideal but my experience is that go for what the audience will like above all else. For example I don't really like "sweet caroline"' date=' don't sing it particularly well but on New Years eve I used it as my encore and ony had to play the opening couple of bars and everyone on their drunken feet singing their hearts out, like I knew they would be. So I use a "weighting" to each song in order; crowd appeal, my ability to sing/play it and last my own likes. Wish it was the opposite though.[/quote'] I agree there are some songs that work SO well that it doesn't matter if you can sing it or not. But there's really only a small handful of those and usually work, as you said, at the end of the night when everyone was drunk. Before we had a couple of female vocalists who could actually sing fronting my band, we used to often encore with "Don't Stop Believin'" --- a song that was WAY out of the range of any of the male singers in my band. We would just sing the first line or two and let the audience do the rest. Worked great. But those are more the exception I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 Well... if I hear one more singer trying to sound like Amy Winehouse I'm gonna (fill in the blank). I guess everyone was trying to sound like billie, or Ella or Janis... but the Winehouse thing was so specific to her accent and how she lived her life, that when it's transplanted it just doesn't work for me. Anyway I'm OT. My motto is do what sounds best - vocals in a different key, no vocals, whatever sounds best. I just transposed Street Life from Fm to Cm for my New Year's gig. The song worked great in that key because it was at the top of my range, just like it was at the top of Randy's range in Fm. We also dumped the whole slow part and started in with the shots. The tune worked great and the dance floor was packed. BTW the theme was a tribute to the Crusaders, and the band was rockin'. So you can do your thing, if you can find an audience. Here's a pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted January 3, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 "Street Life" is a great example of a song that's not that well known, but as part of the right repertoire in the right venue should go over great. I'm hoping that will get onto our list if the female vocalist works out. Finding your own voice gets tricky. Ray Charles had a hard time getting past Charles Brown and Nat King Cole. I had a brief association with a blues guitar/vocalist who thought my vocalizations were too black. He was quite infantile about it. Actually, I think I channel Mose Allison too much. Good choice, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 3, 2015 "Street Life" is a great example of a song that's not that well known, but as part of the right repertoire in the right venue should go over great. I'm hoping that will get onto our list if the female vocalist works out. Finding your own voice gets tricky. Ray Charles had a hard time getting past Charles Brown and Nat King Cole. I had a brief association with a blues guitar/vocalist who thought my vocalizations were too black. He was quite infantile about it. Actually, I think I channel Mose Allison too much. Good choice, no? I get that all the time with my blues band...'the white sounds black, the black guy sounds white...' I never took it as a negative, it is just one way I have of expressing myself vocally. Ray didn't need much help getting around the smoother sounds of NKC or Charles Brown...once 'Mess Around' came out, no one was going to mix him up with the crooners. Mose, is Mose, I saw him many times growing up in NYC...I hear once that Jet magazine thought that he was black and wanted to interview him. He has perhaps the most unique vocal phrasing since Slim Gaillard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 "Street Life" is a great example of a song that's not that well known' date=' but as part of the right repertoire in the right venue should go over great. [u']I'm hoping that will get onto our list if the female vocalist works out.[/u] Finding your own voice gets tricky. Ray Charles had a hard time getting past Charles Brown and Nat King Cole. I had a brief association with a blues guitar/vocalist who thought my vocalizations were too black. He was quite infantile about it. Actually, I think I channel Mose Allison too much. Good choice, no? You've probably got the Real Book chart of that tune, but if you don't it's probably on the internet - calm down performing rights organizations, I meant for sale! Mose had some great tunes and a great approach to the song at hand. I work in a band with a fellow that does a Doctor John, Mose kind of thing and it works for him. Wow, I just found a promotional clip of him, what do you know... [video=youtube;0_gCxD969Yo] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pinkfloydcramer61 Posted January 4, 2015 Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 Senor, this is an example of something that could work for someone with an affinity for Dr. John/Mose Allison: [video=youtube;RbfX6A0h92U] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted January 4, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 This song has stuck with me from the time I first heard it because of how much he messed with the melody, lyrics, changes, and pretty much everything else. There's certainly an advantage to picking songs that so many people have covered, not just because they're well known, but because it's already been established that you can mess with THAT song. So . . . can you mess with any song? Don't see why not, but to actually do it can be a pretty big mental leap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted January 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2015 and, fortunately, you were prominently displayed in the vid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 4, 2015 Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 Better to "mess" with a song than to try and copy a particular performance and not do it as well, IMO. Some songs do seem to only lend themselves to one version, but I think that's only completely true very rarely and largely just limited by the imagination of the arranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted January 4, 2015 Author Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm committed to playing mostly older "standards" that have been successfully covered by other national acts. Combine that with a smaller and/or non-traditional lineup and people will expect you to sound like you, rather than the studio recording. Medleys also reinforce the idea of creative arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think that listening audiences are less wedded to hit versions of songs than maybe ever before. With so many different remixes, medleys, mashups, "guest vocalist" versions, YouTube creations, singing contest TV shows, etc. around these days, I don't think there are really that many people any more who think you "ruined" a song because it doesn't sound like a particular version. Just make it entertaining, and you'll find people will respond well to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 ^^ couldn't agree more, being bored with singing Beatles songs, (I come from Liverpool and my audience tend to be of that age, so they are heavily requested) I regularly "mess" with them for example "All you need is love" easily becomes a slow blues number whilst "I want to hold you hand" fits nicely into a reggae style grove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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