Suggestions On New Mic For Guitar Amp Tomorrow

[StratGuy22]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Yes, and this is completely independant of the mic being used or even the PA.

True. It pops up and I'm like, wait, what?


Ohhhhhh ok. So I'll end up riding the fader a bit, as I'm basically amplifying their feedback. I try to explain, but what can you do.


Ahhhhh it's so nice working with easy to work with bands lol

I'm thinking of an e609 more for a bit of variety. Maybe one of each eventually, e609 and e906.

[OneEng]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Feedback is also related to the gain of each mic, so unless the guitar amp is super tiny or way low on stage, I would not expect feedback to occur because of the guitar amp mic.

For me it has been pretty re-produceable Andy. And yes, we do tend to have our amps fairly low, but not so low that you don't have any stage noise at all. Low enough that the stage noise is dwarfed by the mains out front though.

The 57's feed at HF and the 421 feeds back the LF. The e609's don't feed back at all. Close spaces make it worse (especially if the speakers are close).

I am not talking about guitar feedback, but PA feedback here.

[agedhorse]

Ok, something I haven't experienced personally.

[RoadRanger]

Maybe this is your problem?



Or this?

[StratGuy22]

I find that I do like the guitarists to have some volume. Definitely reasonable. I do need some meat so that my guitar mic gains aren't nutted trying to pick up the amp.

It's all about that happy medium, not too loud, not to quiet,

But juuuuuuuuust right.



LoL Goldilocks had it nailed from the start.

[ChiroVette]

Okay cool so a few people chimed in on the SM57, a few on the e609, and a few on the e906. I think that the 421 is in my future, but not my near future. I already have an SM57 and need a second mic for a second guitar cab. Still a little undecided between the 609 and 906.

[lonotes]

 

Originally Posted by ChiroVette

Okay cool so a few people chimed in on the SM57, a few on the e609, and a few on the e906. I think that the 421 is in my future, but not my near future. I already have an SM57 and need a second mic for a second guitar cab. Still a little undecided between the 609 and 906.

 

I think the MD421 is an awesome asset in the studio. I have three of them that I use regularly. But in a live environment, especially at the club/bar level, they are completely wasted. Not to mention way too expensive. You can buy three 609's, or four 57's for the price of a single 421. There's no way that you'll hear a difference between them with your current system, and I doubt that you'll really hear a difference once you move up to your future PRX based system. Guaranteed your audience won't hear it. OTOH, Put your money towards the real upgrades, where it will do the most good.

[ChiroVette]

Originally Posted by lonotes

I think the MD421 is an awesome asset in the studio. I have three of them that I use regularly. But in a live environment, especially at the club/bar level, they are completely wasted. Not to mention way too expensive. You can buy three 609's, or four 57's for the price of a single 421. There's no way that you'll hear a difference between them with your current system, and I doubt that you'll really hear a difference once you move up to your future PRX based system. Guaranteed your audience won't hear it. OTOH, Put your money towards the real upgrades, where it will do the most good.

This is a very fair point, to be honest. Look, if I had money to burn OR I thought that I would achieve a greater result with the 421 for 3X the price then fine. But there are a few other factors to consider. I did a little research on Jerry Garcia's various setups, and apparently, when he used the 421 mic, he made a few changes that would be either impractical for me or flat out impossible. First off, knowing that the 421 has at least a reputation of picking up more feedback/bleed from other instruments and vocals on stage and to keep the stage volume lower, Garcia had his speaker cabinet (with the 3 JBL E 120's in it) actually put back stage. It was then sealed in a road case and the mic set up inside the case. This, I assume, was to keep the other instruments from bleeding into the mic. In addition, he also apparently had his sound people yank out the stock coil in the 421 and then it was hand wound before being put back in, or it was replaced with another coil. As far as I know, the specs for this were never even released.

So not only did Garcia do things to that mic and to his cabs that would be absurd for me to try to replicate, but I am now forced to think of the "vocal mic" thread I started where I was considering the $600 Neuuman mic and everyone talked me out of it on the grounds that I probably wouldn't get any benefit over the SM58 and would just be tossing monsy away, particularly in a rock band.

So maybe the same advice needs to be applied here as you and others are kind of hinting at. I definitely want a second instrument mic because sometimes I play with the acoustic duo and the electric band in the same night and I am using a beautiful Marshall Acoustic Soloist as my amp. So I am kind of leaning toward either the e609 or the e906. It seems more people seen to recommend the 906 over the 609, even though it is almost twice the price, but I am not quite sure why.

[Bobby1Note]

The e906 has switchable "sound character" settings; bright, moderate and dark.

Check out this "shootout", it's no contest between the SM57 and e609;

note; there's an error somewhere. The video-dude states "an e906", but the video title, and all other comments are regarding the " e609"

[OneEng]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

Ok, something I haven't experienced personally.

I will try it again just to convince myself (a little more scientific this time).

@ RoadRanger,

LMFAO

@StratGuy22,

Yea, we used to have even lower stage volume, but I found that having the gain up on the mics too high causes a host of other issues..... so yep, there is a Goldielocks volume


@Bobby1Note,

I have heard several shoot-outs having an e609 pitted against an SM57 as well as others. The issue I have with them is that generally, people don't eq and set the gain for each mic. Once you do this, you find that it is much more difficult to find the difference between microphones in general (speakers too for that matter).

Given the same gain and eq, the e609 does have a fatter sound; however, you can eq the 57 to sound nearly the same. The way I did my test was to use 3 channels on the mixer (one for each mic 421D, 57, e609). I used a 4x12 straight cab with each mic having its own speaker with the mic placed 50% out from the center of the speaker it was on.

I then equalized each mic independently on its channel eq (on my MixWiz) to get the most pleasing sound to my ears. I then had someone play while I muted and unmuted each mic to get a feel for how each sounded. If one sounded better than the others, I tried to change the others to sound like the one I liked the most.

Using this method, the best sounding mic was the MD421; however, it was only marginally better than the e609. The SM57 lacked a noticeable dimension to its sound (it sounded less life like) compared to the other two; however, I would add that I seriously doubt it would make any difference in a live setting.

The convenience of the e609 is really nice compared to the other two. No comparison.

[twostone]

Originally Posted by RoadRanger

Maybe this is your problem?

[Unalaska]

I have 1 e609 and 11 57's. no one has ever turned their nose up at a 57 and they can be used for snare/toms as well as trumpet/sax etc. the 609 can also be used this way and I like the mechanical durability of them, with 57's I worry about damaging the grill. The downside with a 609 is constantly moving the mic clip from one stand to another, small grip but its cool.

If I came across a good deal on like 4+ 609's I'd take it. I really like using them and they sound great. As is the57's are paid for.

[Rbts]

Originally Posted by Unalaska

I have 1 e609 and 11 57's. .

This tells ME something.

Another thing to consider - is the psychology of the situation. You know - as a preformer - you always wonder what you are getting yourself into - really - everytime you go to a gig - are they gonna have what you need - should you have brought "more" stuff - is it gonna be "alright'??

When you get there - if the guy starts pulling out a bunch of SM 58s and SM 57s - you know that everything is gonna be (at least) "alright". These two mics are just so darn recognizable - and generally well accepted that they put almost anyone "at ease". There is some value in this.

[OneEng]

Originally Posted by Rbts

This tells ME something.

Another thing to consider - is the psychology of the situation. You know - as a preformer - you always wonder what you are getting yourself into - really - everytime you go to a gig - are they gonna have what you need - should you have brought "more" stuff - is it gonna be "alright'??

When you get there - if the guy starts pulling out a bunch of SM 58s and SM 57s - you know that everything is gonna be (at least) "alright". These two mics are just so darn recognizable - and generally well accepted that they put almost anyone "at ease". There is some value in this.

Better than $20.00 microphones, not as good as Beta58's, ND767a's, or e835's for vocals IMHO. For guitar cabs, the 57's do fine.

I did a gig a few weeks ago where the band brought their own e835's. I still prefer my 767's, but those mics were very good (only a sound person with a good ear doing an A/B would have been able to tell the difference). The Beta58's are a little bright, but can be tamed with a little channel eq. The SM58's are just not as articulate as these microphones IMHO.... noticeably so.

Having said all this, the SM58 is clearly the most recognizable vocal microphone on the planet.

[Rbts]

Originally Posted by OneEng

Better than $20.00 microphones, not as good as Beta58's, ND767a's, or e835's for vocals IMHO. For guitar cabs, the 57's do fine.

I did a gig a few weeks ago where the band brought their own e835's. I still prefer my 767's, but those mics were very good (only a sound person with a good ear doing an A/B would have been able to tell the difference). The Beta58's are a little bright, but can be tamed with a little channel eq. The SM58's are just not as articulate as these microphones IMHO.... noticeably so.

Having said all this, the SM58 is clearly the most recognizable vocal microphone on the planet.

Right - there are differences - that a trained ear can tell - especially if they are permitted to do an A/B test. But the general audience - just wants to know "does it sound good" (or not).

Personally - I carry a Beta 87c for me - and beta 58 for the backing vocalist. I HAVE A/B'ed em and KNOW the difference. But if I show up at a festival gig or something - and they already have SM 58s set up - I just say - fine - it will be fine - I slip on a clean wind cover - and off we go.

I think many performers - if they see SM 58s in a stand - ready to go will shrug - and say - "fine" (especially if "time" is of the essence).

[ChiroVette]

Okay, I know that the poll part of this thread seems heavily biased toward the e906 over the 906, but it seems that based on the comments that the e609 would be perfect for me in terms of micing my guitar cab. Before I pull the trigger, any last comments on this? I am still open to the e906 (particularly with the nice packages with the mic, stand, cable, and clip). The 421 is still a tad out of my range while I am saving for a PA and I don't want to get a second SM57. I think a little variety might be nice, and it sounds like the shape, placement, and sound of either the 609 or 906 would be better suited for my guitar needs than a second SM57.

Thanks!

[agedhorse]

E609 is fine

[ChiroVette]

Originally Posted by agedhorse

E609 is fine

Thanks!

And if you haven't sold it after I buy my PA system, I may snag that 421 off you.