Members ChiroVette Posted October 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by Tomm Williams Another benefit of the 421, The Dead also used them for vocals (maybe just Bob Weir?) If you're concerned about the authentic look. That's true. I forgot about that. How is that mic for vocals? Is it as good or better than the SM58? I don't care so much about the authentic look. If I did, I would have to go on stage with a bag of heroin and gain 150 pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Can't say how they are on vocals. I had 4 of them, only used them on Sax and floor tom. They have that 5-position switch that goes from M (music) to S (speech) I would assume they would sound at least as good as a 58. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Looks like no one knows why Condensers are not used on stage for guitar amps? They generally can't handle the SPLs. Also a guitar amp doesn't put much if anything out in the 10KHz+ range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Why is it that condenser Mics are used for Violin, Cello, Upright bass, Saxophone, Clarinet....etc....but I have NEVER seen one used for a guitar amp on stage? I have used condensers under conditions where a condenser makes sense. I used to work with a large swing band and I used a condenser on the electric guitar because it was the best choice for THAT player, THAT amp, and THAT style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Why is it that condenser Mics are used for Violin, Cello, Upright bass, Saxophone, Clarinet....etc....but I have NEVER seen one used for a guitar amp on stage? Don't discount the use of dynamics on all of those instruments also. A 421 would be right at home on most of your list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 It's a MD421-II, made in Germany, includes case and factory clip. Mint condition, no dings, scratches or tape residue. Clip retainer is tight and solid (421 owners know about how important this is), black with XLR connector (again 421 owners will appreciate all the versions out there) $300 plus shipping, PM me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted October 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse It's a MD421-II, made in Germany, includes case and factory clip. Mint condition, no dings, scratches or tape residue. Clip retainer is tight and solid (421 owners know about how important this is), black with XLR connector (again 421 owners will appreciate all the versions out there)$300 plus shipping, PM me Aged, I think as suggested in this thread that I may be better off waiting on that quality mic, as I definitely don't have the PA right now to do it justice. I am playing right now through an old MR (835 mains and 805 monitors) based system with a Crown Powerbase and Soundcraft Folio Rac Pac lol. From what people in this thread are saying, my gear isn't up to the task of giving me anything close to what that mic can do. Perhaps when I get the PRX system I am still saving for? Looks like it is only a couple of months away! In the meantime, two questions:The e609, I see that is a flat mic, but people are saying you don't need a mic stand. Why is that?For those recommending the e906, why? And will either an MR based or PRX based system do the e906 justice if it indeed is a better mic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Miko Man Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 The e609 (and e906) are designed to be hung by the mic cord against the face of the amp. Mark C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 IMO it's not just the PA it's the person operating it that makes a difference. Just this summer I played on a very nice Nexo system that sounded awful. The gear was functioning well as far as I could tell. I have seen the 609 used with a stand but many techs just throw it over the cab (maybe through the handle). Because it's flat it generally stays there, unless it starts to slip towards the floor! The old 609's seem to get more respect than the new 609's. IIRC the 906 has a few filter choices that might make it more useful. Honestly in a bar band situation I don't know if it matters. I myself use a 57 for guitar, although if I had a 421 I would be tempted to use it (on a secure stage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Originally Posted by stunningbabe Why is it that condenser Mics are used for Violin, Cello, Upright bass, Saxophone, Clarinet....etc....but I have NEVER seen one used for a guitar amp on stage? Because you haven't looked?http://www.mixonline.com/photogaller...s/index15.htmlhttp://www.performing-musician.com/p...ixingmetal.htm-Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted October 12, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 I think I am going to just snag an e609 for the gig tonight and I will consider the the 421 later on when I have a PA good enough that a mic that price tag will actually make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaBender Posted October 12, 2012 Members Share Posted October 12, 2012 Since he already has the 57, I'd get the e609. In fact, that's exactly what I've done, and I use them interchangeably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Axisplayer Condensers are used often on guitar amps, but not as often at the club band level. Decent ones are usually more money than dynamics of the same quality. Condensers are are noted for good high end which most guitar amps don't really need. Gain control is somewhat more sensitive which is not always a good thing in combat audio. They CAN be more fragile than dynamics are. When you weight the benefits to the drawbacks, they just aren't bought as often as dynamics are at the club level. Lastly, most bar band PA's are not high quality enough to benefit from the difference they can make. your explanations makes perfect sense. Thanks Axis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stunningbabe Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse I have used condensers under conditions where a condenser makes sense. I used to work with a large swing band and I used a condenser on the electric guitar because it was the best choice for THAT player, THAT amp, and THAT style. What Amp did he use Andy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted by ChiroVette I think I am going to just snag an e609 for the gig tonight and I will consider the the 421 later on when I have a PA good enough that a mic that price tag will actually make a difference. Just make sure you secure it - cable through the handle, or by other means.It's interesting that the mic that didn't get any votes is the mic you picked. I'm making no judgement just an observationAnyway, let us know how the mic works for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tado921 Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Late to the party but I'll throw in a vote for the e609. I've found that it captures the tone of the guitar/amp very well. One note: when you hang it from the top of the amp, make sure that the side labeled "Front" is towards the amp. Seems obvious, but I got in a rush once and got it backwards...feedback city until I figured it out. Also, make sure it is secured at the top so it doesn't slip down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted October 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted by Shaster It's interesting that the mic that didn't get any votes is the mic you picked. I'm making no judgement just an observation Which is why I decided to wait on the mic. It wasn't an absolute necessity for the gig last night as I already have an SM57. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 I have an e609, SM57, and MD421.I have compared them extensively and found the following:If you REEEALY listen closely and know how to eq it well, the MD421 is marginally better than an e609, and noticeably better than an SM57The e609 is SO close in sound quality to the MD421 that the convince and stage space saved by not using a stand (and a super proprietary mic clip) greatly outweighs any tiny difference in sound.The e609 is MUCH better at suppressing feedback than either the MD421 or the SM57.The MD421 picks up lows from all over the stage and re-amplifies them (feeds back low too).The SM57 picks up mid/highs from all over the stage and re-amplifies them (feeds back highs too)I think that the e906 is a little better mic and would use them without question, but the e609 is comfortably in the "sounds great" category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 13, 2012 Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 Originally Posted by OneEng I have an e609, SM57, and MD421.I have compared them extensively and found the following:If you REEEALY listen closely and know how to eq it well, the MD421 is marginally better than an e609, and noticeably better than an SM57 The e609 is SO close in sound quality to the MD421 that the convince and stage space saved by not using a stand (and a super proprietary mic clip) greatly outweighs any tiny difference in sound. The e609 is MUCH better at suppressing feedback than either the MD421 or the SM57. The MD421 picks up lows from all over the stage and re-amplifies them (feeds back low too). The SM57 picks up mid/highs from all over the stage and re-amplifies them (feeds back highs too) I think that the e906 is a little better mic and would use them without question, but the e609 is comfortably in the "sounds great" category. I'm not doubting your experiences, but fortunately I can't recall the last time I had to worry about feedback with a guitar mic. The source is usually so loud that feedback isn't an issue for me YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiroVette Posted October 13, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 13, 2012 I saw a couple of really good deals on the e906 and e609 on Amazon. Not married to this mic at all, just throwing this out there:http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Sup...&keywords=e906 That one is the basically the 906 with a free Audix Cab-Grabber and 20 foot Whirlwind XLR cable. Another deal is basically the e906 + 20 foot cable. Both are for the price of just the mics. Thoughts? Again, in NO HURRY to pull the trigger on either of these mics at all, just wanted some opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rbts Posted October 14, 2012 Members Share Posted October 14, 2012 Originally Posted by ChiroVette Which is why I decided to wait on the mic. It wasn't an absolute necessity for the gig last night as I already have an SM57. My opinion - stick with the Sm57 - it is working fine - right? Save your money for the new PA. If it's not broke - don't fix it, and don't spend money on things that are "maybe" going to be a "little" bit better - even if YOU actually DO hear the difference (which I doubt) - your audience (I would say) definately will not. Save your money for spending where it will really make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 14, 2012 Members Share Posted October 14, 2012 Originally Posted by Shaster I'm not doubting your experiences, but fortunately I can't recall the last time I had to worry about feedback with a guitar mic. The source is usually so loud that feedback isn't an issue for me YMMV. If your amp volume is low, it is more of an issue. If your bass player's amp is loud, or the snare is loud, then the mic's pick that up too.The amount of volume you can get before feedback is related to the number of mic's and types of mics you have on stage. It has been my experience that adding an SM57 to my EV ND767a's and e609's definately lowers how much volume we can get before we start to get feedback.Since we use in-ear monitors, we generally can max out the FOH speakers with no feedback using the 767's and 609's. Not so much if we use 57's or my MD421. My opinion - stick with the Sm57 - it is working fine - right? Save your money for the new PA. If it's not broke - don't fix it, and don't spend money on things that are "maybe" going to be a "little" bit better - even if YOU actually DO hear the difference (which I doubt) - your audience (I would say) definately will not. Save your money for spending where it will really make a difference. I would say that if he has feedback issues, this is a worthy upgrade (considering it is only $100.00). If he is trying to get better sounding guitar from it, then I agree. Save the money and get better speakers for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 15, 2012 Members Share Posted October 15, 2012 Feedback is also related to the gain of each mic, so unless the guitar amp is super tiny or way low on stage, I would not expect feedback to occur because of the guitar amp mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 15, 2012 Members Share Posted October 15, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse Feedback is also related to the gain of each mic, so unless the guitar amp is super tiny or way low on stage, I would not expect feedback to occur because of the guitar amp mic. When I get some guitar feedback it's usually because it's such a high gain tone and too loud that the guitar itself is feeding back, and not the mic/gain itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 15, 2012 Members Share Posted October 15, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 When I get some guitar feedback it's usually because it's such a high gain tone and too loud that the guitar itself is feeding back, and not the mic/gain itself. Yes, and this is completely independant of the mic being used or even the PA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.