Members arcadesonfire Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Are there benefits/drawbacks in sound quality or intonation or something between the different electric guitar neck scales? After playing my strat solely for years, I've returned to my Hamer Mirage, which has the Gibson-style 24 3/4 neck length. It's significantly easier to play funky chord voicings stretched across 5 frets. Doesn't make my hand sore like the Strat can. So why the heck did Fender use that longer scale? Did one come after the other? Are there benefits to a longer scale? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 You stumped me so I found this: http://www.guitarnoise.com/lessons/scale-length-explained/ I was going to say something regarding more treble and twang with Fender scale which is explained in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members t_e_l_e Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 first i thought, what a stupid question, then hm yes why is it real so? and the i read the link.... thx for the question and thx for the link with the insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Gibson Jazz guitars - the ones with the solid tops - generally have a 25.5" scale length. Perhaps Les Paul had something to do with the shorter 24.75" length found on the solid body and ES models. I noticed the PRS Custom 24 (which I always thought was designed to be a cross between a Les Paul and a Stratocaster) has a 25" length and I suspect that has to do with fitting the coils of the pickups under certain harmonic points on the strings in order to get strat type sounds. The two inside coils are in the same position harmonically as the strat bridge and middle pickups and were available in one position of the five-way rotary switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DonK Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 I'd always assumed it was a carryover from acoustic - and later, arch-top guitars - where a longer scale is associated with greater volume and projection, all other things being equal. Martin's dreadnought guitars use a 25.4" scale, whereas Gibson more often used 24.75". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Preacher Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 You stumped me so I found this: http://www.guitarnoise.com/lessons/scale-length-explained/ I was going to say something regarding more treble and twang with Fender scale which is explained in the article. Shorter scale guitars also have trouble accepting heavier gauged strings because the slackened tension causes wider vibration and fret buzz. Shorter scale guitars, though, tout that beautiful buttery tone which make Les Pauls and Jazz boxes such invaluable tools. My Jaguar says "whaa?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grantus Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Scale lengths have an impact on the sound of a guitar, of course, although there are a number of other factors as well. Regular-scale Fenders tend to have a snappiness to their sound, compared to a warmer sound of many Gibsons. Other factors are just as big or bigger, including the types of pickups. But neck scale does play a role. Beyond that, people have different sized hands or other factors that lead them to prefer one scale length (and neck shape) over another. I have small hands and prefer short-scale Fender necks. Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted November 17, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Ah, thanks Wankdeplank. As for the Jaguar, it seems to me that although they are bright, they have a really pronounced upper mid punch punch punch. They don't have the same presence as a strat or tele, in my experience. So i think they're bright because of the body wood (??), pickups, neck joint, and bridge, not because of neck scale. That link also explains why it's easier to bend on my Hamer than my Strat. Cool stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 The simple answer is that with the same gauge strings longer scale lengths have greater tension. That translates into both playability and sound issues - higher tension means harder to fret and bend notes, lower action with less chance of buzzing, less sharpening as you fret the string (meaning less compensation is required), and some people attribute a different sound (I've heard short scale described as "blusier", whatever that means). I object a little bit to the sentence in the quote where the source say "distance between frets is calculated by some logarithmic formula that I have absolutely no clue about" - for those of us who do build necks and fret boards that is a very important part of the design of a guitar. As we all know, our instruments are "evenly tempered" which means they play equally out of tune in all scales I don't think they are popular with electric builders (yet) but multiple scale, or "fan fretted", acoustics are becoming very popular with builders and players looking for the ideal tension in each string. I like long scale guitars - I down tune a lot and I also play a lot of slide - the additional tension is helpful for both. With an acoustic, long scale also helps move the bridge to a more central location on the top - think of the difference between hitting a drum head in the center and closer to the rim. And my favorite twelve string has a wopping 26-1/2 inch scale and is tuned to C# or lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members onelife Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 FYI, the even tempered twelve tone scale commonly used in western music uses a mathematical formula based on the 12th root of 2 which is approximately 1.059 This number is used in calculating the distance between frets which is directly proportional to the difference in pitch of the notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 Personally, I play both 24.75 through to 25.5 inch scales and don't really have a preference. I find it to have minimal affect on tone. For example, I had a short scale strat neck and when I put it on, the guitar sounded pretty much identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 File me under "dumb question- but let me look see- not so dumb after all". I knew there was something about Fender vs Gibson. Jackson vs Fender. And so on. But I never thought to think about the science behind it. Nice thread dude! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GAS Man Posted November 17, 2014 Members Share Posted November 17, 2014 "Twang" was indeed my first thought for the Fender 25.5" scale, but yet you can still get plenty of twang out of a short-scale Mustang, Jaguar or Duo-Sonic. Lot's of variables. Going "up a gauge" in string thickness is common on shorter scale guitars, but I have a Mustang that I've left with 9-42. I enjoy its uber-slinky feel when I pick up that guitar. I tend to go more by what my ears tell me a guitar needs for thickness of the strings. P.S. Has anyone else (besides me) noticed that Gibson is now putting lighter gauge strings on some of their LPs? 009, .011, .016, .026, .036, .046 Instead of .010, .013, .017, .026w, .036w, .046w Makes sense to me. Humbuckers pick up more energy than single coils, so the 10s where really not all that necessary, whereas conversely single coil guitars my get more sonic benefit from a slightly thicker gauge. Caveat: IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Steve2112 Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 When Malmsteen WANTS it...he can can some thick deep tones...with .008's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 You can have the best of both worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gardo Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 What if I just say there are different scale lenghts for different sizes of hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 18, 2014 Members Share Posted November 18, 2014 What if I just say there are different scale lenghts for different sizes of hands. The problem with that is that you need different size hands as you move up the neck. I always wondered how guys with big hands (like Bill Monroe) could play a mandolin - then I learned that each finger covers two frets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted November 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 hehe, i write science tests for a living. Physics plays a big part in my thinking about guitars, effects, mixing, etc. I just didn't know before if 3/4 of an inch really made that much difference in a guitar's tone. Looks like it does! I mean, SOUNDS like it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members arcadesonfire Posted November 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted November 20, 2014 You can have the best of both worlds Looking at that neck is making me dizzy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 21, 2014 Members Share Posted November 21, 2014 Looking at that neck is making me dizzy! Arcades, so called fan fretted or multi scale guitars are starting to catch on with acoustic players and seems to be a characteristic of "modern" acoustics. I don't see it as often with electrics - one reason might be the difficulty of bending. However a few people like Doolin, Novax and a couple more are making fan fretted electrics. If you want to test the theory that scale length changes the sound of a guitar it is pretty simple. If you have a 25.5 scale Fender the distance from the nut to the first fret is about 1.4 inches. If you tune down one semi tone to Eb and put a capo on at the first fret you should be back in concert tuning but your scale length is now about 24.1 inches - shorter than a Gibson. Your tension will be about 10 percent less (it changes with the square of the scale length). Play with your bridge pup (the neck one has moved slightly with respect to the vibration envelope of the string), but note that nothing else has changed - you are very effectively comparing a long scale guitar to a very short scale guitar. Do you hear any difference? Do you feel any difference? Does it play differently? It would be cool if someone did this and posted clips (tell me the string gauges and I'll calculate the tension) Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted November 21, 2014 Members Share Posted November 21, 2014 Personally' date=' I play both 24.75 through to 25.5 inch scales and don't really have a preference. I find it to have minimal affect on tone. [b']For example, I had a short scale strat neck and when I put it on, the guitar sounded pretty much identical[/b]. Surprising. I had a Washburn WM3 (short scale Strat) that I thought sounded like a cross between an LP and a Strat. Fatter sounding - no twang, not a lot of chime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members billybilly Posted November 21, 2014 Members Share Posted November 21, 2014 I can't say but it may have been your particular guitar. Mine was a MIA fender strat, I replaced the neck with a USACG short scale neck of the same material (maple) and as previously stated, it really didn't sound too different, which really surprised me. Could have been a one off, I'd have to experiment more with others to really find a conclusive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 21, 2014 Members Share Posted November 21, 2014 Neither Wank's or Billy's comments surprise me but I don't have any hard evidence to prove my beliefs that scale length has a big effect on feel and playability but very little to do with tone. The sound of an electric guitar is the sum total of all of its parts but I can't believe that scale length makes a big difference. Not true with acoustics where string tension and location of the bridge make a big difference. Try my little capo trick from the previous post - see if you can tell a difference in sound on your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wankdeplank Posted November 23, 2014 Members Share Posted November 23, 2014 Yeah, might have to try that one Freeman. Haven't spent a lot of time with a capo but when I have, I always felt that the capo itself changed the quality of the tone (not talking about key changes). The test I'd be more interested in is one involving a long scale and a short scale neck like Billy talks about. I'm guessing it's a nuance thing, but there nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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