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Original Bands and Musicians: Are You Out There?


David Himes

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Man this is depressing. Thought things were better in the States. Here in Croatia the same thing is happening.Only there are not enough places to play and the audience kind of stopped caring for live music. You can play weddings but 99% it's degrading and the repertoire is awful. I manage sustaining myself by teaching, doing music for theatre performances and occasionally playing my original stuff as a solo artist. I don't have a label so I do everything myself. And its quite soul crushing. Especially after 16 years of trying and trying. When I visited Chicago a couple of times I was shocked to see the volume of sheer talent playing small bars for barely any money. Yet the myth about US and UK is still strong here in Croatia. Everyone thinks everything is better over there. Maybe the conditions in which you play are but money wise….I doubt it. The only thing is your audience is 300million +…could be. Here in Croatia the total population is 4mil so you do the math. I have no idea how this is supposed to work in the long run. The economy is so down and the state is so corrupted I don't see a way people would spend money on something art related. There are circles of colleagues which are small…but there is no community in a true sense of the word. So u just keep asking your self…What am I doing? Why do I even bother? Funny thing is , even if I could find a reg. job it would pay next to nothing. I recently decided to do a limited run on vinyl for my album and Im financing the whole deal hoping that Ill at least get back the dinero i invested. My wife and I are constantly talking about moving from Croatia….but where? Where do you go and expect you'd be making a decent living by doing what you love? I am not talking about fame hehehehe. Just work and feeling excited about what you do. Here's a live set recorded on a local radio show from a couple of months back. You can also find a small portion of what I did for the performance shows.

https://bebenavole.bandcamp.com

all the best

Adam

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The failure rate of any aspiring artist is the same as ANY business: 95%. Those aren't very good odds. And I hate to say this, but the number one reason businesses fail is because of management incompetence. Think about it: Other artists are successful out there. What is the difference(s) between you and them?

 

To increase your chances of success, you need to change your way of thinking, not the easiest thing to do. You need to let go of conventional wisdom, and what you've been told all this time. I wish I had time to coach all of you. As I keep saying, I'm not trying to cram anything down anyone's throat, but a lot of you really should read my book. For a FREE sneak peek inside, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KKF9Z2O

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At this point I'm hearing from various sources that focus should be to try and generate buzz and even $$ through social media - i.e. YouTube. Then your location is irrelevant. Has anyone tried doing this, maybe also leveraging something like FB advertising (I'm always shown FB recommendations for unknown original acts). Also what about Stage It? It's a site where original acts can do a live performance and folks buy tickets. Probably not really fruitful til you get the ball rolling, but I think this is where things are going. There is definitely an appetite for live performances on YouTube, from what I can see.

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I'd be interested in learning what you'd consider success in the music business from a musician/band perspective. I have a feeling that there are almost as many definitions of success as there are bands. I think way less than 5% of bands are "successful" -at least in my view.

 

The failure rate of any aspiring artist is the same as ANY business: 95%. Those aren't very good odds. And I hate to say this, but the number one reason businesses fail is because of management incompetence. Think about it: Other artists are successful out there. What is the difference(s) between you and them?

 

To increase your chances of success, you need to change your way of thinking, not the easiest thing to do. You need to let go of conventional wisdom, and what you've been told all this time. I wish I had time to coach all of you. As I keep saying, I'm not trying to cram anything down anyone's throat, but a lot of you really should read my book. For a FREE sneak peek inside, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KKF9Z2O

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I'd be interested in learning what you'd consider success in the music business from a musician/band perspective. I have a feeling that there are almost as many definitions of success as there are bands.

 

this is an important perspective. I'm in an originals band - we are weekend warriors, though, and it can be tough to get any movement. But, it's been over 10 years, and we're lucky enough to be able to play at least once a month, will be dropping our 4th CD, and have been able to work at a high enough level of quality to keep all of us - lifelong musicians - happy and eager to keep working at it.

 

It's helped to understand our area. We've made alliances with a few other original bands and those are great relationships to have. We help each other, promote each other and I always buy any CD of any local outfit that I find even marginally appealing. Their audiences are potentially ours, and vice versa, so it's always good to play nice with great bands. We also take care of the businesses that promote originals bands - occasionally buying drinks for fans and tipping well. So I feel that we can still do better, but I consider our music endeavors to be successful.

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Considering the state of the industry and the local scene, I stopped doing originals, just nothing in it for me. Would I sign with a label? No. Can I tour? No. Is there any reward for playing for free, or *gasp* pay to play? Nope. It's a dry well. I still write, and maybe someday I can become a youtube sensation, which sadly is far more probable than any other scenario, for anyone really.

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Considering the state of the industry and the local scene, I stopped doing originals, just nothing in it for me. Would I sign with a label? No. Can I tour? No. Is there any reward for playing for free, or *gasp* pay to play? Nope. It's a dry well. I still write, and maybe someday I can become a youtube sensation, which sadly is far more probable than any other scenario, for anyone really.

 

No offense, but aren't you around 40 years old or so? Nobody ever makes it in this business doing originals at that age anyway. That's nothing new.

 

Can probably count the number of people who got their first record deal and became successful after the age of 40 in the last 50 years on one hand.

 

I agree that it's probably much harder to make money doing originals today than in the past, but at my age, I don't think the current state of the industry has much at all to do with my individual chances.

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No offense, but aren't you around 40 years old or so? Nobody ever makes it in this business doing originals at that age anyway. That's nothing new.

 

Can probably count the number of people who got their first record deal and became successful after the age of 40 in the last 50 years on one hand.

 

I agree that it's probably much harder to make money doing originals today than in the past, but at my age, I don't think the current state of the industry has much at all to do with my individual chances.

 

 

Of course, but that goes back to "what is your definition of success?".. plenty of 40-somethings "make it" if you consider they are making a living on it. It's all about perspective, and what I was saying is that in "my" area, it's slim pickins no matter what age you are. The industry imploded, yes, but so did the general public. People no longer put enough of a significant value on original music, especially live original music.

 

I did hold back in one regard.. there are other avenues for people to make great money, such as writing for tv/film, commercials and jingles, and again, age has nothing to do with that. If anyone here is of appropriate age, talent, and good looks to make it "big" then I'd suggest that doing american idol, AGT, or any other reality show (go to CA and whore your talents), cause that's going to be your best shot.

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Of course, but that goes back to "what is your definition of success?".. plenty of 40-somethings "make it" if you consider they are making a living on it. It's all about perspective, and what I was saying is that in "my" area, it's slim pickins no matter what age you are. The industry imploded, yes, but so did the general public. People no longer put enough of a significant value on original music, especially live original music.

 

I did hold back in one regard.. there are other avenues for people to make great money, such as writing for tv/film, commercials and jingles, and again, age has nothing to do with that. If anyone here is of appropriate age, talent, and good looks to make it "big" then I'd suggest that doing american idol, AGT, or any other reality show (go to CA and whore your talents), cause that's going to be your best shot.

 

Yeah, if you're a good songwriter, then you can always try to sell your songs to younger performers or to be used in media where you're virtually invisible. That has always existed.

 

But as far as 40-somethings "making it" by performing original material? Especially if they haven't yet done so? I just don't recall ever seeing much of that happening. And I've been a fan of music and been working in the industry in one form or another pretty much my whole life. How much of people over 40 did you see making a living with their original music in any local music scene in the 1980s? I don't remember any of that happening. And certainly not in any genres generally associated with "popular" music. Some jazz cats or classical dudes or "world music" perhaps. But not rock, R&B or country.

 

Yes, the business has changed a lot and is tougher for everyone in many, many way. But it could be exactly the way it was in 1980 and your chances for not-yet-found success with original material if you're over the age of 40 would still be just as tough.

 

I would say if anyone here has a knack for writing catchy tunes that they think could make some money, then go to Nashville and whore your talents there trying to find some young hottie to sing them for you or go to LA and try to write jingles. But again, that's nothing new.

 

It's kind of a like a 50 year old chick trying to make it as a swimsuit model. Doesn't matter how hot she might be, there just isn't a market for it and the industry isn't looking to use you. And to the degree they MIGHT actually need a 50 year old swimsuit model, they're gonna call up Cindy Crawford or somebody else who's already been a name for decades.

 

But maybe there's a place for you designing swimsuits if you've still got an eye for modern fashion, perhaps?

 

It's not saying anything good or bad about either the performers or the industry, really. It's just the type of industry it is.

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I wonder how this band fits into this discussion. All I know is that I saw them in midcoast Maine this past summer while they were on tour. Their next tour was . . . Australia. I don't think they've had anything close to a hit record. They play mostly traditionals that I doubt most people recognize, so their originals fit right in. They sold a few CDs at the small waterfront restaurant and I really wish I'd had a chance to ask the leader how they made a go of it.

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Yeah, if you're a good songwriter, then you can always try to sell your songs to younger performers or to be used in media where you're virtually invisible. That has always existed.

 

But as far as 40-somethings "making it" by performing original material? Especially if they haven't yet done so? I just don't recall ever seeing much of that happening. And I've been a fan of music and been working in the industry in one form or another pretty much my whole life. How much of people over 40 did you see making a living with their original music in any local music scene in the 1980s? I don't remember any of that happening. And certainly not in any genres generally associated with "popular" music. Some jazz cats or classical dudes or "world music" perhaps. But not rock, R&B or country.

 

Yes, the business has changed a lot and is tougher for everyone in many, many way. But it could be exactly the way it was in 1980 and your chances for not-yet-found success with original material if you're over the age of 40 would still be just as tough.

 

I would say if anyone here has a knack for writing catchy tunes that they think could make some money, then go to Nashville and whore your talents there trying to find some young hottie to sing them for you or go to LA and try to write jingles. But again, that's nothing new.

 

It's kind of a like a 50 year old chick trying to make it as a swimsuit model. Doesn't matter how hot she might be, there just isn't a market for it and the industry isn't looking to use you. And to the degree they MIGHT actually need a 50 year old swimsuit model, they're gonna call up Cindy Crawford or somebody else who's already been a name for decades.

 

But maybe there's a place for you designing swimsuits if you've still got an eye for modern fashion, perhaps?

 

It's not saying anything good or bad about either the performers or the industry, really. It's just the type of industry it is.

 

Ahhh...to be young and naïve again!!!! [sigh]

 

Although you're accurate when you say age is a factor in "making it", I would also point out that the only ones nowadays that have truly "made it" by virtue of their wide acceptance, acknowledgement, and respect by all age groups are primarily in the older set of musicians. People like Eric Clapton, BB King, David Gilmour, Glen Frey, Don Henley...the list goes on. Have you ever stopped to consider what differentiates you and them?

 

It's called "paying your dues" my friend. And unfortunately for the youngsters coming into this business there hasn't been too much dues paying going on, which goes a long ways toward explaining the horrendous state of the current music business. Do you really think in 40 years there will be people admiring and respecting the artists of this current decade in the same way? If so, I'd say you're delusional.

 

At one time there was a filter in place. That filter, although it incorporated age as one of it's criteria, also included talent, skill, and originality. That filter has been reduced now to pretty much age. Anyone with a computer loaded with a DAW and some decent plug-ins can make a recording and distribute it along with a video on YouTube. You can call that artistic democracy. I call it havoc and chaos. Where exactly are you learning those necessary skills of stage production, vocal harmony, song dynamics, content creativity with no one to guide you? In previous generations "signing" with a record company actually meant something...and serious money was invested in you to provide seasoned professionals such as producers and managers to guide your career to success. It was worth it because you had clearly paid your dues and knew how to perform actual music that could differentiate you in the marketplace. THAT came from paying your dues.

 

You can always argue that at least now the market decides rather than a corporate entity. That would be true. And exactly how many people have you come across in the marketplace that can truly differentiate between a truly creative and unique sound, and just some more derivative pablum that's been spooned out by thousands of other bands?

 

There's a reason why original bands make no money. They aren't good enough. They aren't talented enough. They aren't skilled enough. Because they haven't paid their dues enough. So go ahead and dream of being the next David Gilmour, or Eric Clapton because you have age going for you. But my advise....don't quit your day job.

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Ahhh...to be young and naïve again!!!! [sigh] Although you're accurate when you say age is a factor in "making it", I would also point out that the only ones nowadays that have truly "made it" by virtue of their wide acceptance, acknowledgement, and respect by all age groups are primarily in the older set of musicians. People like Eric Clapton, BB King, David Gilmour, Glen Frey, Don Henley...the list goes on. Have you ever stopped to consider what differentiates you and them? It's called "paying your dues" my friend. And unfortunately for the youngsters coming into this business there hasn't been too much dues paying going on, which goes a long ways toward explaining the horrendous state of the current music business. Do you really think in 40 years there will be people admiring and respecting the artists of this current decade in the same way? If so, I'd say you're delusional. At one time there was a filter in place. That filter, although it incorporated age as one of it's criteria, also included talent, skill, and originality. That filter has been reduced now to pretty much age. Anyone with a computer loaded with a DAW and some decent plug-ins can make a recording and distribute it along with a video on YouTube. You can call that artistic democracy. I call it havoc and chaos. Where exactly are you learning those necessary skills of stage production, vocal harmony, song dynamics, content creativity with no one to guide you? In previous generations "signing" with a record company actually meant something...and serious money was invested in you to provide seasoned professionals such as producers and managers to guide your career to success. It was worth it because you had clearly paid your dues and knew how to perform actual music that could differentiate you in the marketplace. THAT came from paying your dues. You can always argue that at least now the market decides rather than a corporate entity. That would be true. And exactly how many people have you come across in the marketplace that can truly differentiate between a truly creative and unique sound, and just some more derivative pablum that's been spooned out by thousands of other bands? There's a reason why original bands make no money. They aren't good enough. They aren't talented enough. They aren't skilled enough. Because they haven't paid their dues enough. So go ahead and dream of being the next David Gilmour, or Eric Clapton because you have age going for you. But my advise....don't quit your day job.

 

Some truth to what you say, but those names you mentioned all first found major success in their teens or early 20s. Clapton was 20 when the Yardbirds had their first big hit with "For Your Love". Gilmour was 21 when he joined Pink Floyd. How many "dues" could they have possibly paid before then?

 

and, as talented as they are, if their lives had gone differently and they weren't able to find that early success and had been still trying to break through twenty or thirty years later? I seriously doubt we'd know who they are today, Regardless of how many dues they had paid beforehand.

 

I have no idea which, if any, of today's musicians will be talked about in 40 years. But as much as the "top of the heap" status for those names you listed has to do with their talents and skills, it's also just as much due to the fact that they play in an aging genre. Clapton was "God" 40 years ago, too. It's not that they've been around for 40 years that makes those guys the kings of the their genre. It's been the same set of revered names forever.

 

The biggest and most respected "big band" and swing artists all came from the 30s and 40s. (and all first "made it" when quite young, BTW. Benny Goodman had his first big hits in his early 20s. Artie Shaw when in his mid 20s ). But that's mostly a reflection of the popularity time period of the genre. That all the "Rock Gods" seem to be from the 60s and 70s isn't really surprising. That was rock music's peak of popularity.

 

I seriously doubt the Grand Old Masters 40 years from now are going to be guitar heroes. That was something for the prior generation. From today's era it will probably the producer types. More likely names like David Guetta and Calvin Harris will be the Clapton and Gilmour decades from now. But who knows the future?

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I think you miss the point. Yes, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Lennon/McCartney, Frey/Henley were all young when they burst big onto the scene. However, in spite of their young age they had already been performing 7 nights a week for several years...paying their dues nightly in various bars and smaller venues. In order to achieve that same level of performance experience at the rate most young folks are performing each week (especially if they are an all original band) they'd end up being 35 or 40. That type of musicianship, presence, proficiency and polish only comes from playing live and doing it a LOT. That's called paying your dues.

 

I'm not trying to make the point that there's a market for middle-aged performers to break it big in the music business. That's not even a possibility. It's a youth based market. But it does explain a LOT about the state of the music business built on young folks that haven't had to time to develop their skills.

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I think you miss the point. Yes, Clapton, Gilmour, Beck, Lennon/McCartney, Frey/Henley were all young when they burst big onto the scene. However, in spite of their young age they had already been performing 7 nights a week for several years...paying their dues nightly in various bars and smaller venues. In order to achieve that same level of performance experience at the rate most young folks are performing each week (especially if they are an all original band) they'd end up being 35 or 40. That type of musicianship, presence, proficiency and polish only comes from playing live and doing it a LOT. That's called paying your dues. I'm not trying to make the point that there's a market for middle-aged performers to break it big in the music business. That's not even a possibility. It's a youth based market. But it does explain a LOT about the state of the music business built on young folks that haven't had to time to develop their skills.
I really don't think that's it at all. It's just a different skill set involved today. If it were about being a guitar virtuoso, then that's what the kids would be doing, what the market would demand, and today's 20 year olds would have paid the same number of "dues" that Clapton had paid by the same age.

 

It's not 1974. We're 40 years past that. With all the technological, fashion and musical taste changes one would expect to happen after four decades. So little surprise the rules and expectations have changed.

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We just released our forst original CD about 3 months ago and it has done well in the local market. Getting local airplay and several stations and selling quite a few at shows. We have sold a few online, but most are bing sold at shows. A lot of our following now knows our original songs and the request them when they come out. It is very cool to see people on the dance floor singing the words to a song I wrote !

 

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I wonder how this band fits into this discussion. All I know is that I saw them in midcoast Maine this past summer while they were on tour. Their next tour was . . . Australia. I don't think they've had anything close to a hit record. They play mostly traditionals that I doubt most people recognize, so their originals fit right in. They sold a few CDs at the small waterfront restaurant and I really wish I'd had a chance to ask the leader how they made a go of it.

Cool band, but I would also like to know how they can afford to tour. Sounds like they got lots of crowd love at the end, so maybe they have a strong enough fan base to tour. You should drop them a line asking them how they do it. You might be surprised how many bands are happy to answer things like that. :)

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We just released our forst original CD about 3 months ago and it has done well in the local market. Getting local airplay and several stations and selling quite a few at shows. We have sold a few online, but most are bing sold at shows. A lot of our following now knows our original songs and the request them when they come out. It is very cool to see people on the dance floor singing the words to a song I wrote !

Cool, and congrats on your CD! Any links to any live footage?

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Cool band, but I would also like to know how they can afford to tour. Sounds like they got lots of crowd love at the end, so maybe they have a strong enough fan base to tour. You should drop them a line asking them how they do it. You might be surprised how many bands are happy to answer things like that. :)

 

Good idea. Never occurred to me that they'd be interested in discussing business with a stranger. They said they'd be back up here sometime soon (of course they all say that).

 

I think the big question is how do you get a fan base that generates that many youtube hits if you don't have a hit record. . . . especially outside your home base.

 

I suspect there's a lot to be learned by studying niche bands like this.

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Seems a lot of people who post on this forum are cover musicians. Just curious if any original musicians come out of the woodwork. Hopefully, I won't hear crickets. LOL Come out and play!

 

 

Back in the 1980's. I played locally with some guys, doing covers and originals. I co-wrote some songs with them, but had some of my own "batch" for my personal use.

Many of them later, used my copyrighted material and I had to get nasty with them about it. Some of them became popular in the region, and had to omit my music from their recordings, many got to the point of trying to "black ball" me locally.

But, it didn't matter to me because I moved to a major city, where it was a " what you know World" and not a nepotistic "who you know culture".

Many of them still have angst against me because I was so protective with my music.

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