Members OneEng Posted October 27, 2012 Members Share Posted October 27, 2012 The band consists of:2 vocalist (thinking of adding a 3rd)2 guitars1 bass1 drummer (vDrums)I currently have a MixWiz, TC Electronics M-OneXL, Presonus ACP88 (only used for bass right now), ART HQ15 equalizer, and a furman wired IEM system.With my move last year to powered speakers (Yamaha DSR112's over PRX618S-XLF's), the biggest and heaviest piece of gear we have is the instrument rack!Here was my thought:Move to a SL 16.0.2 and get each band member to get an iPOD Touch (or iPhone) for monitoring.This would GREATLY reduce our PA size and setup time. I have looked into the specs on the SL and here is what I have found as disadvantages:There is no Aux send/return. I think this means I can't use my M-OneXL, so I am concerned about the quality of the verbs on the SLThere is only a pseudo 3 band PEQ on each channel vs the pseudo 4 band eq channel strip on the MixWizLosing 4 XLR inputs (12 from 16)In addition to the weight and size, one current issue is the rack I currently have only allows the MixWiz to be in the folded position making it very difficult to plug in the XLR's at the gig (laying the rack on its face makes this better).In all fairness, I don't use that many channels on the MixWiz, and since it doesn't have any stereo inputs, I use 2 channels just for an iPod for break music (vDrums do wonders for your channel input needs).The advantages of moving to the SL would be:Much smaller and lighterMuch faster to setup at the gig (with integrated IEM setup being wireless)I could probably just about pay for it with the sale of all my existing instrument rack gearI realize that simply going to the SL16.4.2 would eliminate all of my issues, but it would be a much larger format mixer, and it is considerably more expensive.What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 27, 2012 Members Share Posted October 27, 2012 With only 4 aux outs, people would be sharing IEM mixes. I say go for the 16.4.2 it will cost a bit more but it gives you 6 aux outs, it's rack mountable, I believe it has 2 aux ins, and 16 XLR inputs. Buy once, cry once instead of trying to make the wrong tool work for you. Don't get me wrong, I love my 16.0.2 for small gigs, but I can get away with 4 aux outs with the gigs I use it for... Also, you'll need a comp as well. I picked up a Mac mini for $400 that works fine with it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 27, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 27, 2012 With only 4 aux outs, people would be sharing IEM mixes. We all currently have the ability to have independent mixes. 3 of the 4 current members are running the mix flat (only what is coming out the mains).... so even 2 mixes would do. I do like the idea of having 4 auxes, but presently, I really only have 4 since 2 of them are dedicated to efx (onboard, and M-OneXL). Also, you'll need a comp as well. I picked up a Mac mini for $400 that works fine with it... Good point. I need to factor that into my costs.I think the thing I am most concerned about is the onboard efx. The M-OneXL is quite good while it has been my experience that the MixWiz on-board efx are .... OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dedmeet Posted October 27, 2012 Members Share Posted October 27, 2012 Also, you'll need a comp as well. I picked up a Mac mini for $400 that works fine with it... Although having a computer hooked to the SL is convenient, it is certainly not necessary for the mixer to function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 27, 2012 Members Share Posted October 27, 2012 I wouldn't worry about the quality of the effects on the SL, they are certainly useable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted October 28, 2012 Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Check out the mackie dl1608 and see if it meets your needs... Pretty frigging slick mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 28, 2012 Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Originally Posted by dedmeet Although having a computer hooked to the SL is convenient, it is certainly not necessary for the mixer to function. I was thinking, if they want to use the QMix app...Also, the iPod or iPhone does not become the in ear wireless monitor. The QMix App controls the Aux Mix it's assigned to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 28, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 I was thinking, if they want to use the QMix app...Also, the iPod or iPhone does not become the in ear wireless monitor. The QMix App controls the Aux Mix it's assigned to... Yea, that is a good point. If I don't have a computer connected, how will I get the in-ear RF signal out? I wouldn't worry about the quality of the effects on the SL, they are certainly useable. Thanks Andy. Are they better than the efx on the MixWiz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted October 28, 2012 Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Without the computer, you simply take a line from each aux out into the wireless transmitter for the IEM's. Then you press the aux 1 button on the StudioLive and set the persons mix. Press aux 2 and set the second persons etc etc. no computer needed, you can do it from the mixer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 28, 2012 Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Switching over might reduce your PA size, but I'm not sure about set up time. Interfacing with computers and iPod phones... might not always be straight forward. And if you were using your rack as the mixer stand, you will now need a table.However, gear purchases keep this forum alive (well almost) so I say go for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 31, 2012 Is there any way to get the wireless out of the SL without a computer? Perhaps a Firewire to Ethernet adapter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted October 31, 2012 Author Members Share Posted October 31, 2012 Originally Posted by StratGuy22 Without the computer, you simply take a line from each aux out into the wireless transmitter for the IEM's. Then you press the aux 1 button on the StudioLive and set the persons mix. Press aux 2 and set the second persons etc etc. no computer needed, you can do it from the mixer... Except I don't have wireless transceivers. I wanted to use iPod Touch or iPhones as the receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 31, 2012 Members Share Posted October 31, 2012 Originally Posted by OneEng Is there any way to get the wireless out of the SL without a computer? Perhaps a Firewire to Ethernet adapter? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 2, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2012 Originally Posted by RoadRanger Nope. Now that I think about it, there is no way since the interface to the mixer is simply firewire. All the logic is on the computer program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted November 2, 2012 Members Share Posted November 2, 2012 +1 on the advantages on the 16.4.2 Our gig over the weekend used a 16.4.2 and a 16.0.2. The 16.4.2 has the 4 sub groups (we ended up using some groups for front fills). Sometimes we use up a sub group for our subs instead of burning an aux. I can't remember but I believe there's more missing from the 16.0.2. (Haven't used that one much at all). No GEQ on the auxes right? Something to that nature. Or there was only one GEQ and it wasn't assignable like the 16.4.2. (correct me if I'm wrong on this I didn't really use it) That brings me to a question. When we use a sub group fed subs (we had different crossover models), how close does the crossover point need to be? We ended up leaving it at a point where it seemed like the mains were crossed over lower than the subs. But that's where it sounded best..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Originally Posted by BlueGreene That brings me to a question. When we use a sub group fed subs (we had different crossover models), how close does the crossover point need to be? We ended up leaving it at a point where it seemed like the mains were crossed over lower than the subs. But that's where it sounded best..? This is why using the proper equipment is recommended by the pros here, that way these questions and problems become non-issues.The answer is "it depends". Do both crossovers have the same filter type, slope and alignment? How about passband gains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Originally Posted by OneEng Except I don't have wireless transceivers. I wanted to use iPod Touch or iPhones as the receiver. Nope. It doesn't work that way. You can control the mix of each instrument with QMix, but they don't act as receivers. They don't pass any audio on their own. You still need an IEM setup..You don't need a comp, but you will an IEM setup for each band member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Seriously... Check out the DL1608. Uses an iPad with no external computer. Also at this point no iPhone/iPod touch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 I like the DL 1680. It has replaced my beloved Mix Wiz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Same. It's replaced my mixwiz, and a whole slew of outboard gear. Plus it replaced my yorky m810 which I used for smaller events that had less space for gear. Sounds great, is tiny, and easy to use. Plus it's 16 channels and 6 auxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted November 3, 2012 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 sigh...I have three issues I am trying to get around here. The first one is that my instrument rack is heavy. The second is that my current rack has my mix wiz inputs all facing down and is difficult to setup. The third is that setting up our IEM's takes longer than I would like since i have 4 people that each get a pair of cat 5 cables going to them. I have issues with cheep cat5 cables messing up, and being a tangled mess.I really like our FOH sound with the mix wiz and my M-OneXL, but the above issues are a pain.Here is what I currently have in the rack and how I am using it: MixWiz folded in down position Art HQ15 which is barely used now that I have active speakers (mostly for the low and high shelf filter) Presonus ACP88 (used only for the bass guitarist since my drummer uses vDrums) Furman HDS6 wired IEM send TC Electronics M-OneXL for reverb efx Furman power conditioner with rack lights An old rack mount CD player I no longer use I was originally thinking that I could simplify this rig by going with a digital mixer; however, if going with a SL means that I have to also have a computer, wireless router, and iPad touch(s) for every member, then it is going to be quite an overhaul.Perhaps I could simply get a new rack and replace some of my old antiquated rack gear with smaller stuff... then get better cat5 cables and bundle them to make them easier to work with If someone would make a digital mixer with an integrated wireless bridge to a set of monitoring smart phones, they would really have something there. This should require VERY little additional circuitry in the digital mixer. Perhaps I should change my career and design digital mixers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jlb Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 I hear you. My outboard rack weighs in at over 150lbs. Great stuff in there, high end dbx gates/compressors ect. Much like you rig. Today's show I will be able to pack my small system in my 4 Runner leaving my trailer behind.The DL has lightened my load considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members hemismith Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Originally Posted by OneEng Perhaps I should change my career and design digital mixers Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted November 3, 2012 Members Share Posted November 3, 2012 Originally Posted by OneEng If someone would make a digital mixer with an integrated wireless bridge to a set of monitoring smart phones, they would really have something there. Latency in the smart phones is WAY too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueGreene Posted November 8, 2012 Members Share Posted November 8, 2012 Originally Posted by agedhorse This is why using the proper equipment is recommended by the pros here, that way these questions and problems become non-issues.The answer is "it depends". Do both crossovers have the same filter type, slope and alignment? How about passband gains? I honestly didn't know anything about them. I just played around with them until it sounded right to my ears. I just tried to stay away from EQing it as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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