Working with singers in my area is a nightmare

[etcetra]

I've been getting called to sub quite often lately, and it seems like I am having a lot of problems working with the singers on the gig. The gigs I am getting subbed are supposed to be jazz gigs, playing standards at a restaurant or hotels, and if I am actually working with a singers who are singing jazz standards, I have no problem doing those gigs. The problem is that most singers in the area seem to sing all sorts of non-jazz materials for the gig and most of them don't even bother to respond when I ask for a set list. I usually have to message them 3-4 times to get a setlist and if I am lucky I will get the set list couple of hours before the gig. They don't have music with them either. I've done enough gigs that to know that some pop/oldies tunes are considered "standards" here for jazz lounge gigs("Stand by me", "Close to you" "feel like making love" "killing me sfotly"..etc"), but asking me to do cover of Celine Dione, Lorde, or "Smooth operator" on a short notice without music, is frankly ridiculous IMO. It's not unusual to walk into a gig only to find out half of the set list are pop songs, and it can be very different depending on the singer. The other musicians are quite sympathetic, but that doesn't change the fact that I look back in front of the audience and the venue.

 

I was just wondering whether it's like this working with singers in other parts of the world. When I used to live in LA, I've met my share of bad singers, but most working singers had their S&*t together in terms of giving musicians set list/music etc. I even met singers who have told other inexperienced singers that if you want to work as a singer you need to have your own charts ready to give to the musicians. My friends played in top-40 band and as far as I know, they all had charts/set lists figured out beforehand, and anybody who is subbing aren't required to learn the entire set off records either.

 

Also, what are your expectations about getting/giving some kind of music for your gig? For me I make it a point to have sheet music ready for musicians, especially if the music is not standard material and/or it requires very specific things as an ensemble. I understand this may be different depending on the kind of music you play but I almost never expect musicians to learn the music from the records.

[SpaceNorman]

I do a bit of sub work with various bands around town - but none of the "accompanist" work that you've described. Virtually all of my work is in the pop/rock/variety genre. My experience and expectations regarding charts and sheet music is the exact opposite of yours. I expect that I'll be provided with a setlist of song titles that will be played - as well as the key (or my preference - the "first chord" for each tune). It's rare (if ever) that I get real charts or sheet music to work from. The bands that "have their stuff together" will provide me with electronic copies of original recordings ... but more often than not, YouTube ends up being my source for that as well.

 

Maybe jazz gigs are different.

[etcetra]

SpaceNorman

 

I think that's understandable as long as you are given enough time to learn the songs. My question is, what is your typical role as a kb player for those gigs? I am guessing the necessity for written parts depends largely on the complexity of the music. If I am just learning chords, couple of hits and maybe small keyboard riffs here and there than it's reasonable and I've done that for non-jazz gigs. But I've also had gigs where I had to play the original horn/string parts on my RH and comp with LH on Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson tunes, and I was given a proper chart for that. If I had to transcribe all 30 songs on my own for that gig, that would have been too much work for what it I was getting paid.

 

For me I was taught that you have to have your charts ready for other musicians, and IMO it's more efficient that way. You don't run the risk of other people learning things wrong as long as your chart is correct, and if there is something funny the chart is always there as a reference. From my experience, having people learn their own parts by ear usually leads to people having different (mis)interpretations about the form, chord, hits and other stuff.

 

As far as working with these singers are concerned, it wouldn't be such a big problem if they bothered to respond to my message and give me a setlist within a reasonable time...and it bothers me that all the sudden it's my problem for not knowing the tunes in their set list, when a good portion of their songs are not really standard material for that type of gig.

[sventvkg]

iPad, chart program. Call em up as needed. It's all out there and easily accessible with today's technology.

[etcetra]

Yea, I've been using irealbook and it has been very helpful, but it's still less than ideal to go into a gig without knowing the set list. The problem with those programs are that 1)Charts are not always accurate 2)Reading down chords makes for a really boring rendition of a song, unless other band members know the tunes enough to guide me through the hits and stuff 3)Not all songs have charts, especially when people call out Chinese/Japanese/Korean pop songs on a gig. 4)You are at the mercy of your internet connection.

 

Personally, I make it a point to give a set list/audio/charts at least week before the gig.

[nchangin]

Your a keyboard player right? I find that most keyboards seriously annoy me when they lace every song with it when there are no keyboard parts. Wing it. Improvise. If your a self taught musician can't you go by ear or feel?

 

Yes it sucks but your doing fill in work there has to be some expectation that you don't know all the songs?

 

On a side note we had a jazz bass player fill in for our bass player that decided to quite last minute, he said he was 100 % jazz but could pick it up quick. He was terrible and didn't know any of the covers, never came back. Maybe top 40 isn't your gig? It seems you know the jazz standards, very possible that bar band player doesn't know the jazz stuff either?

[etcetra]

Well, the thing is, I was specifically called to do a jazz gig, not a top 40 gig, so it was a big surprise when I saw the singer's set list. I really don't have any problem faking songs as long they aren't too complex, and other members in the band are backing me up. I've had to learn songs like "every breath you take" with no rehearsal and I pretty much had it in 1-2 chorus but there was a guitar player on that gig, and he was very helpful. It would have been much tougher if i was the only instrument playing harmony with no help from the band. Now that I thought about it, in a lot of these cases, there was a change in the singer in the last minute, and no one bothered to notify me about the change and the set list.

 

Either way isn't it pretty common sense for whoever is hiring you to sub to give you a set list prior to the gig? Top 40 covers pretty vast repertoire of music, and like you said, I don't think subs are expected to know all the songs in your set list. Which is all the more reasons to give your sub a setlist before the gig. I've subbed for top 40 gigs here and there, and I really haven't had much problem with them as long as I got set list in advance.

[SpaceNorman]

... My question is, what is your typical role as a kb player for those gigs? I am guessing the necessity for written parts depends largely on the complexity of the music. If I am just learning chords, couple of hits and maybe small keyboard riffs here and there than it's reasonable and I've done that for non-jazz gigs. But I've also had gigs where I had to play the original horn/string parts on my RH and comp with LH on Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson tunes, and I was given a proper chart for that. If I had to transcribe all 30 songs on my own for that gig, that would have been too much work for what it I was getting paid.

 

Virtually all of my sub work is with lower end cover acts who cover what I consider typical variety band material. Speaking in very general terms - I typically already know 40%-50% of the tunes on most of the playlists I get (the typical Brown Eyed Some Kind of Wonderful Tonight Mustang Sally sort of stuff...). There's another 20%-30% of the list that are tunes that I've heard by have never played. Then finally, there's 20% of the list that are truly new material. Aside from maybe a ballad or two that a band may have learned from sheet music - I can't remember ever having been given a proper chart.

 

I assess the list as a whole to determine what I need to work on ... then put together a plan of how I'm going to prepare that takes how much prep time is available - and then do the best I can.

 

For me I was taught that you have to have your charts ready for other musicians, and IMO it's more efficient that way. You don't run the risk of other people learning things wrong as long as your chart is correct, and if there is something funny the chart is always there as a reference. From my experience, having people learn their own parts by ear usually leads to people having different (mis)interpretations about the form, chord, hits and other stuff.

 

Clearly, you do a lot more reading than I do. Although I do create what I refer to as a "chart" - that I maintain in OnSong for every song I learn - my charts are NOT true charts and would be pretty much useless to anybody else. I'd describe them as "reminders" about the chord structure of the various sections of a song. I don't try to chart song format at all.

 

While I understand the logic behind "have your charts ready for others...." - that assumes that a player is concerned about making sure they can be "replaced" by a sub at the drop of a hat. That certainly is not a focus of mine! Nor does it seem to be a focus for any of the folks I've subbed for.

 

In the end - I get what I get in terms of playlist, assess how to best invest the time I have available to prepare ... and then give it the best I can.

 

As far as working with these singers are concerned, it wouldn't be such a big problem if they bothered to respond to my message and give me a setlist within a reasonable time...and it bothers me that all the sudden it's my problem for not knowing the tunes in their set list, when a good portion of their songs are not really standard material for that type of gig.

 

My only observation here would be to point out that it's only "your problem" if you let it bother you as such. I learned long ago that as long as I can look myself in the mirror and say I honestly gave it my best - I'm happy. To me, "giving it my best" means that I reached out to whoever my point of contact is to ask for setlists, etc., that I didn't squander whatever available time to prepare, that I showed up sober and as ready to play as I could, etc. If the band that hired me to sub didn't get me a list until the last minute, didn't tell me the keys / first chords ... I still do the best I can given what resources I can muster ... but, I certainly don't beat myself up over their failures. As long as I feel I gave it my best - I'll sleep just fine.

[etcetra]

Thanks, I agree with you about the whole not letting it get to you part. I played a gig like what I described last night, and while there were several embaressing moments of train-wreck, I really don't think there was whole lot I could have done. I got the set list in the afternoon so I did what I could to listen&learn the music, and get sheet music from internet, but that isn't going to change the fact that singer called out wrong keys, wrong tempo, or other musicians making mistakes on changes and the gig being sloppy in general.

 

As far as using sheets are concerned, I really don't want to change musicians on the fly either, but I've had that happen so often that I figured it's best to create an environment where someone competent enough can fill in and read through the music with no rehearsal(i still would prefer having a rehearsal beforehand though). I guess it really depends on the gigs and the situations. I've had situations where I had 10 min to run through new songs before the show, and I had no problem with them because the bandleader gave me a very clear chart.

 

Also when you do sub work,do you usually do rehearsal before the show? Lately I am starting to think rehearsal are necessary even if you think you know the songs well enough, because bands don't necessary play the songs like the recording. People might have different ideas about intros&endings and things can become very sloppy very quick, especially if you are playing with people you haven't played before. For example last I played "georgia on my mind last night" and the version the vocalist referred to me was the original ray charles version, so I figured it was going to be a ballad. .but the drummer counted it off as a medium swing tune, so there was a confusion between the rhythm section as to whether the chords should be stretchted twice as long to accomodate the tempo(otherwise the lyric/melody will go really fast and sound weird). At the very least, it would have been helpful if the band sat down and talk through the set list 15min before the gig.. but that didn't happen because people were coming late to the gig

[SpaceNorman]

When I take on a sub gig - I let whoever is hiring me know that I'm willing to do ONE rehearsal to prep for the gig. I'm usually pretty adamant about the ONE rehearsal thing. (You gotta manage "expectations" to avoid conflict with the occasional "rehearsal fiend" that you come across.) I occasionally make exceptions ... if the band is exceptionally hot, the gig $$$s are real good, etc. Sometimes I'll suggest having the guitar player stop by my place and run through material in an "unplugged" setting. But in the big scheme of things - getting me to do more than 1 rehearsal for a sub gig is pretty rare.

 

I can empathize with all the stuff you've mentioned about wrong keys, wrong tempos, guys showing up last minute, tunes played radically different than the original, etc. - and have been part of my share of train wrecks for all of those reasons. However, I work really hard to NOT let that stuff get to me. My rationale is pretty simple. Basically, my take is that it's unreasonable for anybody to expect a sub to walk in and cover a night's worth of material with little or no rehearsal - and do it perfectly. Regardless of what a band leader might wish for from a sub - the reality is, you hire a given sub because you feel that he/she is the person who's best suited to cover the gig given the circumstances (the material being played, the amount of prep time available, what other subs are available, the $$$ involved, etc.) Expecting perfection in a situation where subs are involved is simply not realistic. It's unreasonable of a band leader to expect that of a sub. It's unreasonable for a sub to expect that from themselves.

 

As a sub - I prepare as best I can (given what information I'm provided (i.e., setlist, info about keys/first chords, charts, etc.) and the amount of time available to me). I show up on time, sober and ready to play - and with as positive an attitude as I can muster. I pay attention and listen to the best of my ability. I stick to the musical equivalent of the "hypocratic oath" which states you'll "do no harm" (translated: I simplify and/or lay out when I'm lost ...). If/when a train wreck occurs - I do everything I can to forget about those notes as soon as the song is done - and focus my attention on the next notes I'm gonna play (nothing moves a performance from iffy to outright dung as fast as a band that lets mistakes they've already made color the material they've got left to play!).

 

At the end of the night - as long as I can look at myself in the mirror and honestly say I gave it my best - I walk away as happy as I can be under the circumstances. I don't beat myself up about how much better the night's performance might have been had the band I'm subbing for given me more time, better information, more rehearsals, etc. I studiously avoid diving into the world of could'a, should'a and/or would'a.

 

Being a good sub is all about finding a way to fit into the environment you're working in - and finding a way to make a contribution to the music being made at that moment. You can't do that when you're sweating about any/all the challenges to that might be keeping you from doing it the way you perceive as right.

 

 

[Old Fart Rocker]

Working with singers in ANY area is a nightmare!