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Casual analysis of QSC K-12


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Quote Originally Posted by agedhorse

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Agreed, generally, the execution is pretty poor on most units which often create artifacts that are as bad as the symptom that's being disguised. The exception to this was a couple of earlier Meyer products, and IIRC it had to do with crossover points and HPF.

 

I've really not heard any artifacts on my Behringer boxes

 

Now in a low end product where reliability may be a big issue (because of the product or the typical customer), it may be the least of the evils but probably not a feature a professional is looking for in speaker processing.

 

Not at all useful if you're always running them over subs. Occasionally useful if you are running them alone for an outdoor wedding where your main system is set up inside for the reception. Or for other fairly low volume situations where it just isn't worth setting up subs but you might be flickering the limiters a bit - walk-on/off music for a speaking event etc.
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Quote Originally Posted by Al Poulin View Post
Thanks for sharing Andy! If ever you get an NX55P in the shop and are curious, please see if you can provide us a graph for this speaker. I have always wanted to see one. I am almost certain the LF boost will be even more exagerated than what is in the K12's DEEP mode. It should have been made selectable in the NX55P just like in the K12. Even when I compared my 12'' NX55Ps to the Yamaha 15'' DXR15s with D-Contour engaged, the NX55P still provided as much deep low frequency out of the box! And it is easy to see the DXR15 is very strong in the low frequencies if you check out the frequency response charts supplied by Yamaha. Of course the Nx55P ran out of gas/excursion capability WAY before the DXR15, but still - that some serious LF for a 12'' cab.

Al
Al, you make me laugh sometimes. smile.gif You can't even remotely compare the K-12 and the NX55P; they work and sound completely differently. There is NO "bass-boost" on the NX55P,,,,, none,,,, zip,,,, nadda. Sure, you have a HPF (or a bass cut), and, you have the low shelving EQ, but that's it.

The K-12's DEEP* setting just sounds atrocious compared to an NX55P. The NX55p's vocal range stays clear no matter how you set the LF EQ. The K-12's DEEP* setting dramatically colors those vocals.

Al, with all due respect, you've really got to sit down and re-think how the NX55P works, and you'll have a much greater appreciation of what the speaker can and cannot do. You're continuous referral to "limiting early" tells me you're just not getting it.

Think of it's range as a moving bracket. That bracket can either include the low-end, or exclude it to varying degrees. The more low-end you include, the more overall output is reduced. That's the same with ANY loudspeaker. At least, Yorkville gives you that option, while most others don't. That's one of the reasons the NX55P is such a great speaker for the acoustic solo/duo acts; it gives you as much bottom as you want,,,, without adding subs. You can tweak it to your hearts' content, simply by using the on-board LF shelving EQ.

You've really got to compare the K-12's DEEP* setting; I think you'll be seriously turned off. As Andy said; it's useless.
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Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note View Post
Al, you make me laugh sometimes. smile.gif You can't even remotely compare the K-12 and the NX55P; they work and sound completely differently. There is NO "bass-boost" on the NX55P,,,,, none,,,, zip,,,, nadda. Sure, you have a HPF (or a bass cut), and, you have the low shelving EQ, but that's it.

The K-12's DEEP* setting just sounds atrocious compared to an NX55P. The NX55p's vocal range stays clear no matter how you set the LF EQ. The K-12's DEEP* setting dramatically colors those vocals.

Al, with all due respect, you've really got to sit down and re-think how the NX55P works, and you'll have a much greater appreciation of what the speaker can and cannot do. You're continuous referral to "limiting early" tells me you're just not getting it.

Think of it's range as a moving bracket. That bracket can either include the low-end, or exclude it to varying degrees. The more low-end you include, the more overall output is reduced. That's the same with ANY loudspeaker. At least, Yorkville gives you that option, while most others don't. That's one of the reasons the NX55P is such a great speaker for the acoustic solo/duo acts; it gives you as much bottom as you want,,,, without adding subs. You can tweak it to your hearts' content, simply by using the on-board LF shelving EQ.

You've really got to compare the K-12's DEEP* setting; I think you'll be seriously turned off. As Andy said; it's useless.
I did an A/B with a used NX55p against the other speakers in this range (PRX, DSR, KW, K) that I was considering.

It is a good speaker for sure; however, Al is correct. It doesn't get as loud, not even close.

I think that the NX55p is the one of the best speakers in this price range for a solo/duo act, but as a FOH top over sub, there are others that are much better suited.
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Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note View Post
Al, you make me laugh sometimes. smile.gif You can't even remotely compare the K-12 and the NX55P; they work and sound completely differently. There is NO "bass-boost" on the NX55P,,,,, none,,,, zip,,,, nadda. Sure, you have a HPF (or a bass cut), and, you have the low shelving EQ, but that's it.

The K-12's DEEP* setting just sounds atrocious compared to an NX55P. The NX55p's vocal range stays clear no matter how you set the LF EQ. The K-12's DEEP* setting dramatically colors those vocals.

Al, with all due respect, you've really got to sit down and re-think how the NX55P works, and you'll have a much greater appreciation of what the speaker can and cannot do. You're continuous referral to "limiting early" tells me you're just not getting it.
The bass boost I'm referring to is built into the NX55Ps processing. I know there isn't a switch for it, I really wish there was. That excessive low frequency processing is what makes the NX55P sound so deep and full out of the box. What you're hearing is NOT the speaker's natural response. I've owned the passive NX35s and you'd have to apply a very serious amount of LF boost to get them to sound as fat as the NX55Ps do out of the box. As for the limiting early, it might simply be the way Yorkville sets their limit lights to blink. I do reduce the lows on my NX55Ps to give them more output and they do get pretty loud, don't get me wrong - and I do often use them with the 100hz HP engaged, but they still just always seem to limit more quickly than my other speakers, that's all. I've got 5 other sets of active tops and although their output capability isn't noticeably much higher than the NX55Ps (once you reduce the lows on the Nx and/or apply the HP), I rarely ever see the limit lights of my other speakers blinking in higher output situations. They also ALL sound better than the NX55P once close to or into limiting... I've owned my NXs for over 6 years now and although they are still some of my favorite all around powered speakers, I think simply tweaking the processing on them would get them better overall performance. Just my opinion, of course.

Al
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Quote Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
I did an A/B with a used NX55p against the other speakers in this range (PRX, DSR, KW, K) that I was considering.

It is a good speaker for sure; however, Al is correct. It doesn't get as loud, not even close.

I think that the NX55p is the one of the best speakers in this price range for a solo/duo act, but as a FOH top over sub, there are others that are much better suited.
I agree OneEng, it doesn't get as loud as some of the newer offerings in the segment, but those others in turn, often don't go as low as the NX55P, and therein lays the trade-off. A prospective buyer has to understand that about the NX55P. For an acoustic-guitar type gig, where you don't want to carry subs, the NX55P goes a lot lower than most of the other 12" boxes I've listened to, and as we both know, that big "bottom" sucks up the most power. The NX55P goes -3dB at 45Hz, which is really low for a 12" box. How many other 12" boxes have you seen that go that low?

Another thing about the NX55P is that it sounds good right up to the point where the limiters engage. It never gets harsh when you push it, unlike some of the so-called "louder" boxes. "Loud" is good, but not when it starts to sound "bad" imo. The NX55p states quite clearly that it's a 125dB "continuous" box, with 131dB Max SPL, so of course, it's not going to be the loudest box out there. I'd also be willing to bet that those numbers are achieved only when the HPF is engaged.

In Al's case, he has stated quite clearly on several occasions, that he sometimes runs his NX55P "full-range", even when he's using a sub, because "he likes the sound". I always use the 100Hz HPF when running over subs (LS720P's). When I'm not using subs, I'll disengage the HPF, but also, I'll play with the built-in LF roll-off to get the tone/volume ratio that I like. The more I roll off those lows, the louder the box will go. If I need deeper lows, I'll roll back the volume. It's a trade-off. Try that with an RCF312a, or an EV SxA, and see if you can go anywhere near 45Hz. They can't do it.

I also never push the NX55P's beyond their limit. If I even think I'll be close to the ragged edge, and need ear-bleeding loud, I'll roll out my four EF500PB's and LS801P's.
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Quote Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
I did an A/B with a used NX55p against the other speakers in this range (PRX, DSR, KW, K) that I was considering.

It is a good speaker for sure; however, Al is correct. It doesn't get as loud, not even close.

I think that the NX55p is the one of the best speakers in this price range for a solo/duo act, but as a FOH top over sub, there are others that are much better suited.
I agree OneEng, it doesn't get as loud as some of the newer offerings in the segment, but those others in turn, often don't go as low as the NX55P, and therein lays the trade-off. A prospective buyer has to understand that about the NX55P. For an acoustic-guitar type gig, where you don't want to carry subs, the NX55P goes a lot lower than most of the other 12" boxes I've listened to, and as we both know, that big "bottom" sucks up the most power. The NX55P goes -3dB at 45Hz, which is really low for a 12" box. How many other 12" boxes have you seen that go that low?

Another thing about the NX55P is that it sounds good right up to the point where the limiters engage. It never gets harsh when you push it, unlike some of the so-called "louder" boxes. "Loud" is good, but not when it starts to sound "bad" imo. The NX55p states quite clearly that it's a 125dB "continuous" box, with 131dB Max SPL, so of course, it's not going to be the loudest box out there. I'd also be willing to bet that those numbers are achieved only when the HPF is engaged.

In Al's case, he has stated quite clearly on several occasions, that he sometimes runs his NX55P "full-range", even when he's using a sub, because "he likes the sound". I always use the 100Hz HPF when running over subs (LS720P's). When I'm not using subs, I'll disengage the HPF, but also, I'll play with the built-in LF roll-off to get the tone/volume ratio that I like. The more I roll off those lows, the louder the box will go. If I need deeper lows, I'll roll back the volume. It's a trade-off. Try that with an RCF312a, or an EV SxA, and see if you can go anywhere near 45Hz. They can't do it.

I also never push the NX55P's beyond their limit. If I even think I'll be close to the ragged edge, and need ear-bleeding loud, I'll simply roll out my four EF500PB's and LS801P's, because they're the right tool for that job.
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Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note View Post
In Al's case, he has stated quite clearly on several occasions, that he sometimes runs his NX55P "full-range", even when he's using a sub, because "he likes the sound". I always use the 100Hz HPF when running over subs (LS720P's).
Actually, I very RARELY use the NX55Ps with my 720P. Why? Because my smaller and lighter 310As or DXR8s actually sound better (and limit less than the NX55Ps) when used with my sub.

My NX55Ps are my go to speakers when I want full sound for small events without needing a sub. This is where they excel, and I use them quite often for these purposes and with great results. Also, as you mentionned for acoustic guitar/signer duo type applications where you want a nice and full sound. I know exactly what the NX55Ps can and can't do and never push them beyond that. They are great speakers, but are a little expensive at 2000$ a pair considering you can get the DXR15s for a few hundreds less...

Al
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Al, your story is changing over time. You used to say that you often ran your NX55P's full-range, even when using the sub, but that was long before you had the 310a's. (five years ago, when I was buying my NX55P's),

You've also stated on several occasions that your 310a's sound harsh when pushed, and that you "like" a lot of hi-end "sizzle" to your sound.

Question; do your 310a's go anywhere near as low as the NX55P's when used stand-alone?

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Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note View Post
Al, your story is changing over time. You used to say that you often ran your NX55P's full-range, even when using the sub, but that was long before you had the 310a's. (five years ago, when I was buying my NX55P's),

You've also stated on several occasions that your 310a's sound harsh when pushed, and that you "like" a lot of hi-end "sizzle" to your sound.

Question; do your 310a's go anywhere near as low as the NX55P's when used stand-alone?
- No, the 310As do not go anywhere near as low as the NX55Ps. Their low frequencies start dropping off quickly below 80hz naturally. The newer HD line has stronger deep frequency processing though, from what I've read. I only use the 310As stand alone for my old folk gigs, where they absolutely love the smooth sound and lack of strong deep bass.

- I've never heard an RCF speaker get harsh, so I really don't think I would make such a comment about my 310As. I was probably talking about my Wharfedale Titan 12As.

- I do appreciate some top end sizzle, as do most people, but not the point of the high frequencies being annoying. At higher volumes, I usually reduce the highs a little so as to have a well balanced overall sound.

- No full range speaker I currently own produces as much deep low frequency as my NX55Ps.

Al
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Quote Originally Posted by Bobby1Note View Post
Al, your story is changing over time. You used to say that you often ran your NX55P's full-range, even when using the sub, but that was long before you had the 310a's. (five years ago, when I was buying my NX55P's),
I guess that was a while back. Back then, I was using the LS700P as a sub. For some reason, the NX55Ps seemed to sound better full range, even with the 700P handling the low end. It had to do with the vocals or certain instruments sounding thin when the 100hz filter was applied, and maybe had to do with the 700Ps odd bandpass response. Not sure at this moment. I am sure I dialed back the lows though to take some stress off the tops. Even with the 100hz filter activated though, they ALWAYS limited with every kick hit of Thunderstruck. That is one song the NX55Ps do not like at all. To this day, I always notice the yellow lights when playing it at almost any party. Odd...

Al
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Al also points out a pertinent issue of cost. For less money you can get a DXR15 which goes as low (maybe lower) and will get louder.

Of course, there is always the convince of a 12 vs 15 to consider. Yorkville has done a good job creating a speaker with a niche that has maintained its commercial viability for quite some time.... Big, warm, clear, and small.

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