Genevieve Knows - Lyric in #48, Final mix (I think) in #85!

[LCK]

Fabulous. Really inventive stuffy, lyrically and musically. I love it!

[bee3]

Really good lyric and piano playing....The chorus is great...the bridge is good. The last word "care" was off a bit. Overall I like this very much. You have it crafted really good. The verses, melody wise, just lag a bit behind the chorus which is very good. I guess to me or imo the chorus is really strong and the verses not so much. The last sung word in the verse could use a directional change to get a better transition to the chorus.

 

jmo

 

I disagree with your...er... opinion... I think the verses are plenty good. They just are completely overshadowed by the killer catchy chorus. I can't wait to hear those runs in the verses with a full-band treament. Powerful stuff.

 

Bridge works just fine. A little awkward on that second line, but I'm sure that'll clean up nicely when you properly record it.

[mbfrancis]

I disagree with your...er... opinion... I think the verses are plenty good. They just are completely overshadowed by the killer catchy chorus. I can't wait to hear those runs in the verses with a full-band treament. Powerful stuff.

 

Bridge works just fine. A little awkward on that second line, but I'm sure that'll clean up nicely when you properly record it.

 

 

Thanks guys. In fairness, the verses are supposed to be mellower than the choruses, it’s supposed to be a more restrained delivery to emphasize the lyric…a rationalization maybe, but there you go. But they definitely don't pop the same way.

 

Listening back to this I am going to change the order to:

• Ch2
  
• Solo
  
• Bridge
  
• Drop verse, restate 1^st line of v1
  
• Jump to Pre-Chorus “and everynight’s a blur”
  
• Modulation, slow chorus, a tempo, end.
  

Although it’s already 3:15, way too long…

 

[Oswlek]

I love this song, but I don't like the bridge very much. For me the earlier version was fine. Perfect, even.

[mbfrancis]

I love this song, but I don't like the bridge very much. For me the earlier version was fine. Perfect, even.

 

Ugh, ok - let me record it in the new order, maybe you'll change your mind. I definitely didn't think the first version was...enough.

 

[tbry]

 

I disagree with your...er... opinion... I think the verses are plenty good. They just are completely overshadowed by the killer catchy chorus. I can't wait to hear those runs in the verses with a full-band treament. Powerful stuff.

 

Bridge works just fine. A little awkward on that second line, but I'm sure that'll clean up nicely when you properly record it.

 

Well, I think we agree...I said that the chorus was great, and yes the verses a little over shadowed, or to that affect. I am absolutley sure that when he puts the full band arrangement to it it will all be awesome.

[LCK]

 

 

Thanks guys. In fairness, the verses are supposed to be mellower than the choruses, it’s supposed to be a more restrained delivery to emphasize the lyric…a rationalization maybe, but there you go. But they definitely don't pop the same way.

 

Listening back to this I am going to change the order to:

• Ch2
  
• Solo
  
• Bridge
  
• Drop verse, restate 1^st line of v1
  
• Jump to Pre-Chorus “and everynight’s a blur”
  
• Modulation, slow chorus, a tempo, end.
  

 

Although it’s already 3:15, way too long…

 

I don't know what this ^ means. Particularly, what does "drop verse" mean? I don't like the sound of that. I really like your verses.

[mbfrancis]

 

I don't know what this ^ means. Particularly, what does "drop verse" mean? I don't like the sound of that. I really like your verses.

 

 

Haha, it just means I think I'm going to repeat the start of v1 after the bridge before going to last chorus. I think I will at least.

 

 

[mbfrancis]

OK here 's a first stab at a recording for this. Lyric here.

 

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12965756

 

* The entire arrangement (esp drum machine) is a placeholder – may throw the whole thing out. This was mostly to block out all the tempo changes and flow. The crazy ritard before the last chorus is hard to program right.

* This was my first recording with new mics/preamps. Whether I keep them or not, I’m *very* happy with the piano, acoustic guitar and bass (new Mustang short scale) recording. This is a big deal, as some of you know.

* I’m not crazy with the vocal sound, which is much more detailed now I think. I just hate my voice here. Maybe LeeK can weight in – is this recorded well? Sounds abrasive to me. (I’m squashing it w an 1176 plugin which smooths it a bit, plus notching a bit at 2.5kz). Maybe I’m not used to what my voice sounds like. Maybe I had an off day vocally – they were certainly out of tune.

 

Let me know what you think – does this work? My gut I just to do this straight 60s, but I think it has more potential than as a period piece. This needs to be, just, better. Would love any/all feedback...I’m way too close to it. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

[Lee Knight]

Cool!!! (I think you mean #58 not 48 in your thread title?)

 

So... the bridge. GREAT. For me, I love it. I do think you might consider trying a different feel here though. These are fresh ears hearing your tune after a long break and when the bridge hits, the melody and chords are great. But the stop and stop open feel, though discreet from the rest of the tune, still has the same general qualities. Personally, I'd go with a 16th note hihat and bring a feel of busy rushing through the rest of the instruments, as opposed to the take-a-breather like feel you have now. Just a thought. It's good though.

 

Is that really a bass guitar playing? It sounds freaking great! Like a sample, in a good way. If you wake up tomorrow and find your bass missing I didn't steal it. Great playing. Awesome tone.

 

The vocal sound. I hear you. An 1176 limiter is really known for bringing edge and honk. It's an aggressive sound. And the your voice doesn't have any unpleasent edge, you do have a proclivity for a bit of resonance just below that edge range. 700-1k. I wouldn't choose a Urei 1176 for this type voice. L2A. You want warmth. Or... a Wave C4 on Pop vocal setting. Do you have any Multi Band compressor? That can do wonders for voices that pop out at certain frequencies.

 

Your stylized vocal takes are golden and I would never suggest you change your presentation for technical reasons. So you have to bend the tech to your voice. When you sing,, "...knoooows...." those resonances pop. C4 or the like is great for this. note: I don't have a C4 but I do have the Mastering version, the Phase Linear Multi Band. So I copied the settings from the C4 on a youtube presentation to a preset and whenever I run into this issue you're having I actually print the file through the plug first and be done with it. Then I eq and compress to taste.

 

Or... once again, 'll suggest trying the different patterns. Assuming I understood your issue with the vocal correctly, you now can focus on that 700-1k range, and while auditioning the patterns listen for that range to be softened.

 

Or... and this is a real crap shoot, try a real close up lips on screen version in cardiod to bring some proximity effect. The boosted low end, which your voice could use a little of, might balance out that honk. Then again the resonance might be exaggerated. I kinda don't think it will but look for it.

 

Great work Martin!

[mbfrancis]

Hey Lee – thanks for generous feedback. Question…regardless of performance, do you think the vocals are recorded well?

 

On the bridge, I could see a scene change: multi-part oohs and it switches to jangly electric guitars, dunno.

 

Bass is DI into the ISA One with an FMR RNLA squashing the hell out of it on the insert. Minor EQ to roll off highs and carve room for kick. So glad you dig it.

 

On the 1176, I A/B’d it on/off and it was warmer, smoother, maybe I didn’t notice the honk. Don’t have an LA2A plug, but I have a multiband. Another thing I’ve done is use a de-esser, but just set it on a lower frequency (usually 2.5k), kind of the same thing.

 

I can try getting up on the mic (AT4050) – it’s weird, I have literally on the lowest gain setting on the WA12 (+29db). Are you suggesting I try Omni and Figure 8 as well? One thing that is *not* an issue really is sibilance. Without compression its perfect, with compression I have to de-ess a bit. The only places where sibilance is weird is where I forgot to exclude it from pitch shifting.

 

Thanks again!

[Lee Knight]

Yes I'm suggesting you try the Omni and figure 8 patterns. What I believe is happening is the cardioid pattern of the mike is accentuating certain frequencies and your voice. The Omni setting can be extremely flat and open sounding assuming you don't have a bad room tone that it might accentuate. Using patterns is a great way to find all the little niches your mike can fit into. Of course for the close-up idea you'd want to stay in cardioid to bring on some proximity effect. Actually try the figure 8 for this close up to and see what it brings you. I forget if the 4050 has a pad on it, if so engage it. Does the Focusrite have a pad, you could try that as well. Either or I mean. If there's no pad available consider buying an in-line pad. They're cheap and very useful.

[Lee Knight]

One more thought. What interface are you using? I assume you're using the line input after your preamp on the interface? You don't want to be going into a mic input after you've already amplified it with your preamp. It may be a switchable input and left on mike without your knowledge. Verify that for sure.

[mbfrancis]

Cool…mic on cardiod, pad engaged on mic, gain on Warm Audio WA12 all the way down, pad on pre *not* engaged, going directly into line input on interface bypassing pre.

 

WA12 has a “tone” button which gives it some mojo (changes impedance), I never thought of adding pad and cranking gain a bit - I've been struggling with gain staging and just wanted a conservative, true recording. Supposedly WA12 is an API style pre, so let me know what works for you.

[oldgitplayer]

I can't comment on the recording and production other than to say everything sounds fine to my low-tech ears.

I really like the song. The unexpected ascending chords are great. It sounds 60's but the vocal is delivered in more of a late 70's Elvis C feel.

It all hangs together well.

[Lee Knight]

Cool…mic on cardiod, pad engaged on mic, gain on Warm Audio WA12 all the way down, pad on pre *not* engaged, going directly into line input on interface bypassing pre.

 

WA12 has a “tone” button which gives it some mojo (changes impedance), I never thought of adding pad and cranking gain a bit - I've been struggling with gain staging and just wanted a conservative, true recording. Supposedly WA12 is an API style pre, so let me know what works for you.

 

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why you'd have overload problems. Not that I hear any btw. The 4050 has a -10 pad. The Warm has a -20 pad. Try that instead. Also, my API has a 2:1 switch that may be similar to your tone switch. My 2:1 adds another round of windings to the output transformer and does kick up the outgain accordingly. Try it in and out and note output levels.

[mbfrancis]

Oh I'm not overloading anymore at those settings I think,how does it sound to you? Just wondering if I engage the preamp pad and drive it some more do I get any mojo.

[Lee Knight]

Oh I'm not overloading anymore at those settings I think,how does it sound to you? Just wondering if I engage the preamp pad and drive it some more do I get any mojo.

Ah! No it sounds great. I thought you said you're having an issue with it overloading. But it sounds fantastic, as I mentioned I didn't hear anything wrong with it. So yes I'm with you now, engage the 20 DB pad on the mic preamp a fire and crank it up! Disengage the Mike's pad though. Unless it overloads the front end it in a ugly way. No, it sounds freaking great. I think I'm trying to help with the nonexistent problem. :-)

[mbfrancis]

Oh cool, I'll try it. I just listened to it like 10x in the car and I think Im just not used to hearing my voice this clearly. I could definitely work on my delivery, I probably wasn't in the best voice. Also dynamic EQ, ha.

[mbfrancis]

Here's another mix with a de-ess set for 2.5Khz, which the harshest frequency.

​http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12966259

[stickboymusic]

I totally love this

 

Have a listen to this

 

http://picosong.com/f77w/

 

Its not perfect but it may give you an idea of some frequencies to look at. The vox could probably do with a little more bottom end (as lee is suggesting)

 

I have boosted 90 Hz by about 3db Q1 This is adding a bit more warmth in

I have cut 730 hz by 2.5db Q3.7 getting rid of some mids

I have put a high shelf at about 4K and 2.5 db (this is maybe brightening the vox a little too much?

I have cut 1.5k by 4db Q32 to get rid of some honk

 

Obviously its not ideal as its affecting the whole mix but might be worth looking at?

[bee3]

Hey Martin - a lilttle late to the party here - I'm not going to comment on the mics and stuff, just the song in general:

 

- Still LOVE this song

-I think the chorus need a little something more in there... it's a bit stark. Maybe some oohs... maybe some Hammond? That's what I'd do.

-Bridge is cool. Piano solo is really nice... just the right mix of laid back and funky.

-I do think there a few rough spots with the vocal. Throwing some backing vocals in there may help... it's not terrible by any stretch, but it's so bare right now that every little thing stands out.

-Listening again now and I think I hear some organ in there? It's pretty low in the mix.

 

Fantastic song Martin.

[rsadasiv]

OK here 's a first stab at a recording for this. Lyric here.

 

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12965756

 

* The entire arrangement (esp drum machine) is a placeholder – may throw the whole thing out. This was mostly to block out all the tempo changes and flow. The crazy ritard before the last chorus is hard to program right.

* This was my first recording with new mics/preamps. Whether I keep them or not, I’m *very* happy with the piano, acoustic guitar and bass (new Mustang short scale) recording. This is a big deal, as some of you know.

* I’m not crazy with the vocal sound, which is much more detailed now I think. I just hate my voice here. Maybe LeeK can weight in – is this recorded well? Sounds abrasive to me. (I’m squashing it w an 1176 plugin which smooths it a bit, plus notching a bit at 2.5kz). Maybe I’m not used to what my voice sounds like. Maybe I had an off day vocally – they were certainly out of tune.

 

Let me know what you think – does this work? My gut I just to do this straight 60s, but I think it has more potential than as a period piece. This needs to be, just, better. Would love any/all feedback...I’m way too close to it. Thanks!

 

 

 

 

Dynamite song. The piano and bass sound great. Play around with the vocal mic/signal chain as mentioned above - remember this is part of the fun of new gear!

[Lee Knight]

Ignore my comments on the bridge. It's great.

 

Stick, nice job. Yeah, dipping that 700 and 1.5 really is the trick. That's exactly what I was hearing.

 

AND.. Martin, one reason you've having issues with this is simply because the vocal is VERY LOUD. It really is. It deserves to be. but you might make your life a little easier by bringing it down just a bit. Dip those mids in the spots Stick did, maybe compress it a little harder or add a second, different, additional compressor set to just take a dB off at the peaks. You're gold!

[mbfrancis]

​Thanks all, feedback very much appreciated.

 

Stick, thanks so much for EQ, sounds really great. You’ve tweaked the original (vs the second version), so that makes it easier to replicate. (Any chance you could take a screenshot of the graphic curve?...I don’t think Q values are universal. If you can, just email.) I would definitely rather have a universal EQ setting than fiddle with dynamic EQ or multi-band compression. That said, I don’t know if any EQ is going to change how I'm delivering "anyone can SEEEEEE."

 

Lee's right that it's loud for now (esp bridge), but that's because I want to hear it clearly. Maybe I'm imagining it, but I *think* w/ the new gear I've never heard my vocals this clearly, so it's forcing me to be more fastidious in the editing, pitch correction, etc. I want it loud for now. If it's good it shouldn't be painful, right? (Fun fact - I was struggling w inconsistencies in the sibilance, sometimes perfect, sometimes almost distorting, until I realized it was the pitch correction that was messing it up. Which means I have to go through an un-shift all the ess and shhh sounds - fun.).

 

Re: arrangement, I am leaning in one of three ways: 1) garage rock, almost Black Keys-type messy thing w/ distorted drums, 2) 60s chamber pop Left Banke-type w/ strings and harpsichord solo, or 3) One Direction style pop. #3 would be hardest, #2 easiest, #1 is where my heart is I think. It would be very easy to flesh this out with straight standard 60s pop instrumentation (kind of where it's going), but I think it needs more. Dunno.

 

Thanks again everyone, stay tuned.