Members rsadasiv Posted July 17, 2014 Members Share Posted July 17, 2014 V1Past bright and friendly housesKept with love and careTo a red brick schoolhouseYou won’t find love thereClassrooms dark and catholicStacked with silent loadFacts taught with the stickDown Ravenhurst Road ChorusLeaning on the desktopDreaming in the classHolding on to what he’s gotA boy he grows up fastFilled with possibilityReady to explodeYou have to keep your powder dryTo survive in Ravenhurst Road V2The Fathers and the BrothersAll with Irish namesBelieving boys were born in sinThey plied their Jesus gameWith the Holy Ghost and MaryStanding in the lineWe mumbled meaning with their wordsAnd we served our time. ChorusLeaning on the desktopDreaming in the classHolding on to what he’s gotA boy he grows up fastFilled with possibilityReady to explodeYou have to keep your powder dryTo survive in Ravenhurst Road BridgeNow the school has goneIts ghost haunts me no moreBut the scars remainFrom all those lessonsTaught behind closed doors V3 Solo ChorusBless me now my fatherDown on Ravenhurst RoadBless me please for I have sinnedDown on Ravenhurst RoadAre you in heaven?Are you in hell?I really don't knowI charted a courseAnd followed the pathThat led far from Ravensworth Road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 17, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2014 THAT's interesting! Taking that slant on the last chorus... hmmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hmmmm…….. a few things to respond to and tidy up.I'm a bit busy today, but I'll give it some heart-power later today. Nice input from Ram, but it's not where I'd personally want to go content-wise. It would obviously need to be sung facetiously, and that could be hard to pull off in a full-blown final chorus. It also makes the song very long. I'll check in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 Can't open Soundcloud with my browser, so I can't comment on the music, but the words are certainly not too much for a pop song! I hear a lot of pretty raunchy stuff. This isn't. It's pointed, but that's what makes it good. The words work. You don't tell too much, you don't tell too little, and you manage to collapse a bunch of years into a few thoughtfully crafted verses. What strikes me about a lot of song writers is the lack of attention crafting. A good idea is just a good idea. Making it rise from the page takes both ability and effort. High marks. Del Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 PS - While I'm hanging out here, anyway, thought I'd share. Here's a ballad of mine that's also about a street, that also uses the repeating punch line device, and that isn't a love song. The theme is different (an adult's purgatory versus a child's hell), and there isn't much else in common - except, I hope, attention to crafting. http://www.thefullertons.net/uploads/1/3/1/2/13125528/02_down_on_the_avenue.mp3 "Down On the Avenue" Your shadow crossed the doorway,a cool breeze drew you in,all my best-laid plans for vanishingsuddenly wore thin.I'd pass up the daily doubleto show with someone new.Beats sifting through the detritusdown on the avenue. The barkeep sleeved by sawbuck,you accepted my largesse,I stood you for a couple,here's to looking up your address.Next time you're in the Mermaid Barand find me beached here, too,remember: things have worked out worsedown on the avenue. All that I won at strip pokerI lost to bathtub gin.The floater in my waterbed said,"Let's drink to what should have been."There's many ways to spin the bottle,and I've toasted quite a fewbetween the straights and narrowsdown on the avenue. The ghosts were driving Rollses,the dogs and cats spoke Dutch,the bums were quaffing Remy'swhile the alderman chewed his crutch.Memphis Minnie mixed Manhattans,Lana Lang was in the loo,Hedda Hopper was heisting hubcapsdown on the avenue. You answered every questionI'd lacked the wits to ask.The barkeep ascended from the underworldwith a candle and a cobwebbed cask.In the quavering, wayward mirror,our eyes met, two by two.You were talking about a deal gone baddown on the avenue. Del Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 18, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 18, 2014 Nice work, Delmont. Love the guitar, Knopleresque. The vocal is very cool . The whole band vibe totally works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 "Down On the Avenue" Your shadow crossed the doorway, a cool breeze drew you in, all my best-laid plans for vanishing suddenly wore thin. I'd pass up the daily double to show with someone new. Beats sifting through the detritus down on the avenue. The barkeep sleeved by sawbuck, you accepted my largesse, I stood you for a couple, here's to looking up your address. Next time you're in the Mermaid Bar and find me beached here, too, remember: things have worked out worse down on the avenue. All that I won at strip poker I lost to bathtub gin. The floater in my waterbed said, "Let's drink to what should have been." There's many ways to spin the bottle, and I've toasted quite a few between the straights and narrows down on the avenue. The ghosts were driving Rollses, the dogs and cats spoke Dutch, the bums were quaffing Remy's while the alderman chewed his crutch. Memphis Minnie mixed Manhattans, Lana Lang was in the loo, Hedda Hopper was heisting hubcaps down on the avenue. You answered every question I'd lacked the wits to ask. The barkeep ascended from the underworld with a candle and a cobwebbed cask. In the quavering, wayward mirror, our eyes met, two by two. You were talking about a deal gone bad down on the avenue. Del Nice. A bit of Dylan with a Tom Waits chaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 Nice. A bit of Dylan with a Tom Waits chaser. Would love to hear this with a melody, very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 Question: These lines you've rewritten are hard to sing. They don't feel right rhythmically. To a red brick schoolhouse You won’t find love there Does "Victorian" on its own, the way I had to put it, does that feel like awkward syntax or is it rhythm issues here? Schoolhouse certainly clears up any confusion right off the bat. And I can make it work in the phrasing, I'm just curious as I sort of became fond of the little bounce of VIC-tor-ee-un. The 2nd line there, "you won't find love there". That spot has been difficult. Everything that needs to be said feels clunky in its rhythm. "You won't find love there". I'm not really sure where the stresses might be in that line. It's a soft line in a pointy spot. KEPT... with love-and-care STACKED... with si-lent-load ALL with I-rish-names These all have a BOP! buh-duh-duh dum 'You won't find love there' is fine, but not in a spot that requires that pointed rhythm. EAT... ing toast-and-jam SUCK... ing on-her-toe PULL... ing on-its-tail KEPT... with love-and-care STACKED... with si-lent-load ALL with I-rish-names That's why I threw together the admittedly awkward phrase, "No one noticed the children there". (no one) NO(ticed)... the child-ren-there Note al the buried syllables I needed to make that close to working. And it really doesn't work, I know. Past bright and friendly houses Kept with love and care To a red brick schoolhouse HUSH(ed) in qui-et-pray'r Hushed in quiet prayer In need of no repair (The smell of) children in the air (No sound of) children in the air Dark quiet in the air Addressing these points you have raised: 1. Yep - I agree with keeping 'Victorian'. Once 'small' is deleted, the line feels OK. (use red or small but not both words) 2. I'm having no trouble singing 'You won't find love there'. I'm not sure how you're doing it but I'm doing it in the same way as the other lines you have highlighted. We really need to keep this meaning, and not be overly Pattison about it. KEPT... with love and care YOU … won't find love there So here is where we are up to: V1 Past bright and friendly houses Kept with love and care To a red brick Victorian……..To a small brick Victorian (alternative) You won’t find love there Classrooms dark and catholic Stacked with silent load Facts taught with the stick Down Ravenhurst Road Chorus Leaning on the desktop Dreaming in the class Holding on to what he’s got A boy grows up fast Filled with possibility Ready to explode This boy kept his powder dry In Ravenhurst Road V2 The Fathers and the Brothers All with Irish names Believing boys were born in sin They plied their Jesus game With the Holy Ghost and Mary Standing in the line We mumbled meaning with their words And we served our time. Bridge Now the school has gone Its ghost haunts me no more The scars that build our character Sometime open doors Chorus Leaning on the desktop Dreaming in the class Holding on to what he’s got A boy grows up fast Filled with possibility Ready to explode This boy kept his powder dry In Ravenhurst Road Happy tracking ………….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 18, 2014 Members Share Posted July 18, 2014 I still think "Past bright and friendly houses" is a problem. It starts the song off on too wimpy a foot for me, and I think nailing the opening downbeat would give it more bite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 18, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 18, 2014 . KEPT... with love and care YOU … won't find love there Red brick Victorian was works very well! Nice. OK, just to be clear, I swear I don't care about any Pattison stuff at this stage. I speaking specifically practical. I absolutely agree we need that meaning. I'm on board with you 100%. And yes, the way you've stressed the... YOU … won't find love there ...works out in syllable count. But unfortunately it sounds dorky as hell. The sound of it. Not the words or syllable count. The stress of YOU is absolutely unnatural in that cadence. The word "love" in the previous line is in the perfect spot to roll over the 16th note phrase. That soft "v" lovin-care. Now compare "find'-love". That hard "d" is completely different. And makes the vocal sound... dorky. It is, as Justin O once said, like a speed bump. I hope I'm being clear this is not any sort of assessment on the words themselves. This is strictly about the ability to present them. To perform them. however! I'm going top try to see if I can change the cadence for that line to accommodate those words. I'll try. But it's gotta flow or something's gotta go. I think I can make it flow. I'll stay in contact regarding this cause I get your concern. But be aware, I'm following your point completely. I get what you're saying. And that line is very much a different beast as a sung line to that cadence. So I'll change the cadence and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 19, 2014 Members Share Posted July 19, 2014 OK - I now understand the problem (phew - it can be tough working with pros). I've played with a few alternatives that are the opposite of love, and this is what I've got: V1Past bright and friendly housesKept with love and careTo a red brick VictorianPacked with cold despair Classrooms dark and catholicStacked with silent load Facts taught with the stickDown Ravenhurst Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2014 OK - I now understand the problem (phew - it can be tough working with pros). I've played with a few alternatives that are the opposite of love, and this is what I've got: V1 Past bright and friendly houses Kept with love and care To a red brick Victorian Packed with cold despair Classrooms dark and catholic Stacked with silent load Facts taught with the stick Down Ravenhurst Road Bingo!!! I like that for a lot of reasons. I think the word despair as a rhyme is great and additionally it suits the mood of those verses. I'm digging it Mr. Phil! How do you feel about it? I also dig the packed/stacked rhyme. In other news: I'm tracking guitars to get my mind out of the lyric for now and it's coming along swimmingly. I've got a drippy psychedelic filtered guitar part that plays atmospheric fills, very un-guitar like, in the verses. Think faux Pink Floyd here. It also stacks in the chorus nicely. And since my buddy Jeff is gigging so much lately I'm taking a stab at a Paul/Taxman-like maniac solo. That too is un-guitar like. :-) and unfortunately very un-Paul like as well. Doing my best to get that Vox squank distorted thing going. Chuck Berry on meth. With the beefed up courses and solo section you haven't heard yet the rock guitar solo fits a lot better than it might at first seem. We'll see. And thank you very much for playing ball on that line. You are a gentleman and a scholar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 19, 2014 Members Share Posted July 19, 2014 Yep - I'm happy with the change, so goferit. I thought the packed / stacked might give it some extra bite.Most of what goes on in your head musically goes over mine, but I always love the final outcome. You speak another language. Chuck on Meth………here's an anecdote……..My Buddy Denny whom I have previously mentioned - his band opened for the Stones on their Oz/NZ 1972 tour so he got to jam with Mick Taylor and a fairly non-functioning Keef at that stage of his career. Anyway, when Chuck came to Oz in the 70's he only ever travelled with a suitcase and guitar. The local tour promo people were expected to find backing musicians for him with the expectation that they all knew and could play Chuck's catalogue. So Denny got to be his backing guitarist on his tour here. He has a few tales to tell about Chuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 19, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 19, 2014 That's a fantastic Chuck Berry story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted July 19, 2014 Members Share Posted July 19, 2014 Would love to hear this with a melody, very nice. Me, too! To steal a line from Walt Kelly, I carry a tune like a concealed weapon. =O] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted July 19, 2014 Members Share Posted July 19, 2014 The local tour promo people were expected to find backing musicians for him with the expectation that they all knew and could play Chuck's catalogue. So Denny got to be his backing guitarist on his tour here. He has a few tales to tell about Chuck. Yup, in "Hail, Hail, Rock 'n' Roll," Berry talks about only playing with pick-up bands. That's great, because it opens a door for folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 20, 2014 Members Share Posted July 20, 2014 Me, too! To steal a line from Walt Kelly, I carry a tune like a concealed weapon. =O] There is a Soundcloud link of the preliminary ideas in the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted July 23, 2014 Members Share Posted July 23, 2014 There is a Soundcloud link of the preliminary ideas in the OP Yeah, I know. My browser can't open Soundcloud, so I can only imagine. =O[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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