Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 15, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 15, 2014 I meant overall. Cool. I'm not used to showing something so stark but I like that for the most part. Still, there are bits that seem to need the build of a drum fill. I'm almost toying with the idea of using some EDM style snare rolls etc. Right now it is Americana I suppose, but it never really set out to be that. Someone mentioned Peter Gabriel and honestly, that's the sort of perspective I'm taking with this. I want electric guitar, more drums, ear candy but not of the sort I typically go for. As I mentioned in the previous thread, I'm trying to approach this one a little upside down from my norm. For better or worse. I'm frightened almost of OGP's reaction... Phil? We still friends? / ^ : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 I love it all, musically. Fantastic! This is the 100%t real deal. Mind ye, I think the lyric still needs a little tweaking so that everything lands in the proper musical pocket you've constructed, but I'll leave that up to Phil. AMAZING WORK! ... wow ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm frightened almost of OGP's reaction... Phil? We still friends? / ^ : Hey don't be frightened of me - I'm a ********************cat. Of course I'm not having a negative reaction. (Ha! - this is an edit in parenthesis - the robo-censor didn't like the word that represents the feline of the species - your friendly purring domestic Moggie. Obviously a vulgar word in the US of A). I think the music is really good and as LCK points out, the lyric isn't all in the musical pocket - but that's easily fixed by yours truly. BTW - it's morning over here so all the 27 posts happened while I was sleeping. Sure, the music has a distinct American flavour, but what does that matter? The story could have unfolded in any catholic school either side of the Atlantic. Production wise, the chorus vocal is loud and clear, but the verse vocals are mostly buried in a mid-rangy mix - but you'll find a way to deal with that. I did find it interesting that the lyric has it's own rhythm, but you chose not to use it. When you first put your hand up to do the music, I thought great, but after a couple of days I thought, 'I wonder what I would do?' So I picked up the wood and steel and the chorus melody and chords fell into place immediately. When I first posted the lyric, you may recall that it was just the 2 somewhat sombre verses. Upon your suggestion to possibly take the song in a direction that included how I might have moved on from those days, I went down a positive track with the chorus and outro. Think Ian Anderson / John Lennon on the verses and Elton John on the chorus. So musically I have arrived at a different concept altogether. (Which is to be expected). The main thing is - I think your music is great and I will massage the lyric to improve the prosody. Your vocal will sound better once you've got this to work with. Love working with you Lee. Always feel free to do what you want - I'm not precious about anything - It's the journey that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yay! And of course I was aware of your Oz sleeping habits but the tension was mounting. I'm going to let you do your thing on the lyric before I track any more vocal stuff. Tonight, if possible, I'll try some drum and guitar stuff. Whip up the bridge too. So, should I get rid of the voiceover lady at the top? It's just a silly thing that may be detracting. Thoughts anyone? Foose likes? Justy O doesn't? Any others? Phil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I wasn't the one who said he didn't like the voice over.... but now that you mention it. BTW, I stumbled on this song this morning and it immediately struck me as the attitude that I want to hear from your vocal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbloXQeuNCc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I love v1. c1 is good but I'm not totally feeling it - it doesn't have a traditional "chorus lift" and "xxx road" is a very common lyrical construction - Steve Earle's Copperhead Road is running through my mind but there are many others. I'm not a big Mumfords fan, but the banjo imparts a definite flavor and it fits well into that genre (which is pretty popular these days. I think I like the lyric better on the page than I do in the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Mumford are one of those bands that became so big so fast, people revolted against them. I still think they have a distinctive, cool sound... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 Marcus Mumford is a very talented guy who will most likely stick around long after the & Sons thing dies down. But I'm wondering what everyone hears in this that's anything like them. It's fine but I certainly don't hear it. I'm not going for that sort of neo-folk/pop thing in the least. I'm going to have to work harder to make the distinction clearer I think. Ram, I've got zero issue with the title and hook phrase. This is the name of a school I believe, Phil? Either way, be it a road or a whatever, I like it. Strawberry Road (Sam Phillips), Tobacco Road... there's plenty. Why should we stop? Regrading the lift for the C1. I agree. I held off on the ear candy and reserved ti for C2 but will start earlier I think. I do like that it's not my typical routine though. I need to take that further AND still get it to lift like a pop song as well. Point taken. Listen to C2 and in the left channel there's what appears to be a high string patch. That's me singing falsetto and then distorting it. I think more of that stuff will help lift the thing. Make the chorus SOAR. Pull out the tricks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Funny, I wasn't even aware of all the Mumford stuff going around with this song, I merely posted that as an illustration of the vocal vibe I was looking for. It was pure coincidence that it happened to be that band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ah! Got it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would like to hear more of the personal angle in the lyrics. I'm not getting direct insight to the anger. Lots of us went to schools, public and parochial, where we suffered swats and sermons and so on, but not everyone came out with huge anger at the end of the experience. Using myself and my experiences as an example....teachers and preachers quite often have a marked tendency to assume that their students/congregation are in need of a shake-up, as they are dull and unresponsive to the lesson at hand. Just like coaches who assume the mass of non-athletes are lazy and soft and need a few extra laps to show them what it means to be tough, etc. Well, a lot of kids and congregations are lazy and unresponsive to the lessons and sermons, I have to admit. BUT - in every crowd, there are some few who are very sensitive, very imaginative, very responsive, and the "shake-em-up" treatment, especially in a religious context can just decimate the sensitive few. While the average person sits through the sermon going on and on about sin and judgement, remaining pretty unruffled and thinking about lunch to come later, the sensitive type is shaken to the core. That was me. It's one message to say "I don't like these people" - it's another message to say "what these people did made me feel this way". The latter is, to me, far more interesting. I'm not getting that latter kind of insight so far from the tune - more of the former. Also, one little thing. The "Irish" reference....is that absolutely necessary? Does it possibly tap into something rather left alone?? Just think about it.... nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would like to hear more of the personal angle in the lyrics. I'm not getting direct insight to the anger. Lots of us went to schools, public and parochial, where we suffered swats and sermons and so on, but not everyone came out with huge anger at the end of the experience. Using myself and my experiences as an example....teachers and preachers quite often have a marked tendency to assume that their students/congregation are in need of a shake-up, as they are dull and unresponsive to the lesson at hand. Just like coaches who assume the mass of non-athletes are lazy and soft and need a few extra laps to show them what it means to be tough, etc. Well, a lot of kids and congregations are lazy and unresponsive to the lessons and sermons, I have to admit. BUT - in every crowd, there are some few who are very sensitive, very imaginative, very responsive, and the "shake-em-up" treatment, especially in a religious context can just decimate the sensitive few. While the average person sits through the sermon going on and on about sin and judgement, remaining pretty unruffled and thinking about lunch to come later, the sensitive type is shaken to the core. That was me. It's one message to say "I don't like these people" - it's another message to say "what these people did made me feel this way". The latter is, to me, far more interesting. I'm not getting that latter kind of insight so far from the tune - more of the former. Also, one little thing. The "Irish" reference....is that absolutely necessary? Does it possibly tap into something rather left alone?? Just think about it.... nat whilk ii Well... there are two things going on here. What I spoke about, and what Phil wrote about. When I read Phil's lyric, it makes total and clear sense to me. It never mentions anger. I mentioned anger. I believe the lyric works very well as is. I'd love perhaps some of the prosody issues to be cleared up (or not cause I'm not sure what others are hearing), and hell, if it ended up better, re-written. Sure, why not. But I don't see it as lacking or needing a personal angle. The lyric says what it needs to say. For me at least. Phil may feel very different. I'm not suggesting it can't improve. I just don't see that sweeping need for the types of explanations you mention above. Sorry. How do others feel about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Foose31 Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 nat, i think your looking way to deep into the lyric. I think it's great and expains it all as is. Also you wrote, Also, one little thing. The "Irish" reference....is that absolutely necessary? Does it possibly tap into something rather left alone?? what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 nat, i think your looking way to deep into the lyric. I think it's great and expains it all as is. Also you wrote, what does that mean? Simple - does the lyric communicate dislike for the entire Irish people group or not? I'm not pronouncing that there was any intention along those lines, but I'm suggesting that it could be interpreted that way, so it's something to think about. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Well... there are two things going on here. What I spoke about, and what Phil wrote about. When I read Phil's lyric, it makes total and clear sense to me. It never mentions anger. I mentioned anger. I believe the lyric works very well as is. I'd love perhaps some of the prosody issues to be cleared up (or not cause I'm not sure what others are hearing), and hell, if it ended up better, re-written. Sure, why not. But I don't see it as lacking or needing a personal angle. The lyric says what it needs to say. For me at least. Phil may feel very different. I'm not suggesting it can't improve. I just don't see that sweeping need for the types of explanations you mention above. Sorry. How do others feel about that? Ok, I've made an error here - I read Phil's first post of the lyrics, not his updated posts - and I thought the C2 section was your addition. Since you mentioned anger, and I mistakenly thought the C2 section was your own addition, I was looking for some insight into your own anger. But I said basically the same thing way back in my responses to Phil's original thread on this - that I would like to see a more personal angle. Since I thought (wrongly) that you were doing some re-writing, I pushed the same angle your way. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ok, I've made an error here - I read Phil's first post of the lyrics, not his updated posts - and I thought the C2 section was your addition. Since you mentioned anger, and I mistakenly thought the C2 section was your own addition, I was looking for some insight into your own anger. But I said basically the same thing way back in my responses to Phil's original thread on this - that I would like to see a more personal angle. Since I thought (wrongly) that you were doing some re-writing, I pushed the same angle your way. nat whilk ii I see. I realize it may have been a mistake to speak too much on my feelings for the topic. I do want to be sure to have a certain taste of anger or resentment in the music and performance. Just sort of bubbling under the surface... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 It wasn't a mistake for me. I wouldn't have decided that the vocal needs more oomph if I hadn't known what you were going for. That's the point, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I see. I realize it may have been a mistake to speak too much on my feelings for the topic. I do want to be sure to have a certain taste of anger or resentment in the music and performance. Just sort of bubbling under the surface... Nah, I am very interested in what motivates people, so I appreciate the personal talk. Well, some people can get too personal for the BBS format, but a dribble here and there keeps things interesting, makes me feel like I have some facsimile of virtual/real community here, rather than just jousting avatars. Especially since this is songwriting which entails a lot of self-revelation intentional and otherwise. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 So, should I get rid of the voiceover lady at the top? At first I was like, whaaat? But it sort of grew on me. I'd keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I haven't followed the whole thread, but I agree with Nat about the personal impact/resonance and I think that would lift the chorus as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 16, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2014 Perhaps, Phil? ^^^ I'll see if I can brainstorm a bit in the morning as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 17, 2014 Members Share Posted July 17, 2014 Sorry, I'd like to interrupt this vibrant discussion to call something out: Regrading the lift for the C1. I agree. I held off on the ear candy and reserved ti for C2 but will start earlier I think Wait, what? Why in God's name would you *ever* - ever! - withhold ear candy?? Ever? This is like a Bizarro Brill Building... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 17, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2014 Sorry, I'd like to interrupt this vibrant discussion to call something out: Wait, what? Why in God's name would you *ever* - ever! - withhold ear candy?? Ever? This is like a Bizarro Brill Building... Because that's what you do. You just invent more and more. :-) but let me step back a bit here. I'm quite fond of stacking up the ear candy and making my tracks very dense. But a few thoughts from Stickboy had made me reconsider and try to pare down and make something a bit more sparse here. So it is a bit of a learning curve for me to go so naked. But! I'm only taking my first break right now from tweaking this into something a bit more substantial. Mistake number one I discovered about two hours ago, was because it is so sparse I can mix up the key elements a lot louder than I typically would. There is a very cool hand drum and Indian tambourine bit that I use in the chorus that is mixed way back. I'm now mixing it way up. The acoustic guitar in the verses was mixed back to blend as part of the rhythm section. I'm getting ready to go back in and reconsider it's EQ and mix it more in your face. I'm thinking about some of the recent hip-hop/pop mixes I hear. Very few elements mixed boldly. This is something Craig/Stickboy has been using to his advantage in his particular style quite effectively. He's been very subtly suggesting the same for me lately. I'm learning. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 17, 2014 Members Share Posted July 17, 2014 Just how do you regrade a lift? Is that part of the Dorian scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 17, 2014 Members Share Posted July 17, 2014 Continuing my rant from yesterday... We need to get Stickboy back in here regularly. Let's go raid his Facebook page. WHO'S WITH ME???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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