Members bee3 Posted July 13, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Since there is discussion over possible words of concern, initially I had concerns about the word consciousness. Into each other's consciousness. As opposed to the more obvious 'into each others arms'. But I just want to say, once I heard it, it was beautiful. Whether intended or not, the play with expectations for a new, fresher meaning is wonderful.Thanks Lee. For me, that's the crux of the song right there... kind of the initial spark for the song. The stretching of the words 'each others consciousness' across a half tempo chorus is what started the whole thing. Also, it started as a sort of thing about my wife and I... We met in first grade at age 6, went on to high school together after she had moved away for 7th and 8th grade... Used to see each other around town after college... met for drinks a couple of times in our mid 20s... Always drifting in and out of each other's lives. Of course, I had to invent the verses which aren't applicable at all to our situation. But hey, that's art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 14, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 14, 2014 I kinda like "eventually." It's off-kilter but it doesn't suck. The prosody is off on "the whitewater." That's the only line I'd change. That was a calculated risk... I knew it would be off in that spot... but recorded it anyway. I like the whitewater reference enough and am thinking of leaving it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Latest version: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12856606 So the chorus has been rubbing some folks in a not so good way. And not just one or two people, but the majority of people. Interesting because I really love it the way it is, but I have to at least recognize that it may be subpar. I don't know... to me, the slow chorus IS powerful. Thoughts? The chorus is to drawn out vocally it's like i want to finish the line of for you... 'Back and forth' is OK but then stop singing then, there's a point where you can sing part of the next section 'we drift into each other's' stop again and finish that line on 'consciousness', I tried it and do think it works. If i get a chance I'll give you a demo of what I mean, although I think you have an idea. Definitely try a repetitive guitar riff though. This is a good listen except that I would prefer in the Chorus that the ending of both lines, pick up speed---as in too long a slowdown. Back and forth we drift--now pick up the speed-- into each other's consciousness The world is pushing--now pick up the speed- us to be together... love I can't tell you how much I love Anabella's idea. It never would have come to me, but once I read it I knew it was dead on. This is how to do it: (1:02) Back... and... forth... we... (1:07) driftintoeachother At 1:07 land on the concluding chord that you hit at 1:15. Cut out all the stuff in between and turn around and head into the second half of the chorus right there. The next line works as well but it needs to hit the first down beat on a different word. You sing it like this: (1:17) the world... is... (1:20) PUSH Instead, deliver it like this: (1:17) Oh.... the (1:20) WORLD is pushing (1:24) ustobetogether Then, draw the line out with a repeat of that jammed bit, like so... (1:17) Oh.... the (1:20) WORLD is pushing (1:24) ustobetogether.... (1:29) ustobetogether.... love Of course, the second "us to be together" doesn't hit the transition chord, it repeats the musical phrase from the prior five seconds, holding things up for a hair before resolving back to the verse. I am 100% convinced this would sound awesome. If you can't get it from this, pass along the chords and I'll try to record a quick live demo of what I'm saying. The melodic lead into the chorus was steaming full ahead...the chorus, as good as it is, is a bit of an energetic loss of steam. But, that may just be me. The second time around, into the chorus, I was mentally ready and anticipating the turn; and, it seemed more natural. I'm also with Tom about the chorus. I mean, it's very good for what it is. But, I don't like it as the chorus for this song - I really don't like it. I'm aching for a chorus in this song that rocks and moves me after the killer lead-in. This chorus disappoints me. I know this chorus is made with the "drift" vibe in mind, and I appreciate the artistry of it. But, I still don't like it. The slow down at the bridge works great for me. But, not in the chorus. Really cool feel on this one throughout. The verses we're real catchy as well. I'd have to agree with some of the other commenters, I was ready to hear the chorus take advantage of the build up leading up to it and explode, instead of slow down and chill out. Like Hobo said, it's a really cool sound in its own right, but I was expecting a different sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 FWIW, I vehemently disagree with those that think the half-time start of the chorus is a problem. That strikes me as first-time-surprise feedback. My issue was based on listening 4-5 times, where I felt like it mined that melodic motif a little too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 FWIW, I vehemently disagree with those that think the half-time start of the chorus is a problem. That strikes me as first-time-surprise feedback. My issue was based on listening 4-5 times, where I felt like it mined that melodic motif a little too much. Yes, yes... still awaiting your rough demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Foose31 Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 This is really great, bee...love every part of your song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Latest version: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12856606 So the chorus has been rubbing some folks in a not so good way. And not just one or two people, but the majority of people. Interesting because I really love it the way it is, but I have to at least recognize that it may be subpar. I don't know... to me, the slow chorus IS powerful. Thoughts? Now that you've gathered the quotes on the chorus, I do see what folks mean, but I still very much like the chorus and I hope you don't ditch it. I'll venture these ideas, 'cause if that many people are commenting, it would probably be wise to do some tweaking. It's all in the transition from the last bar or two of the verse - the big buildup on 8th notes - to the half-note pulse of the chorus. Here's some ideas to tweak that transition so that folks maybe won't get that abrupt downshift feeling and spill their coffee on the car seat... 1 - the simplest thing is that the first note of the chorus on "Back" needs to be a big splash that fulfills the 8th-note run up, just like a kid running and jumping into the pool. I mean following this metaphor pretty literally. The run up on 8ths, then a very short gap (kid in the air) then the big splash which in the song of course means a cymbal crash. What you've got is a whole lot of cymbals ramping up in the 8th-note runup, so there's not much room left for a big splash. So dial back the cymbals on the run up for starters, maybe use a less sloshy sound, too. Then the crash on the downbeat of the chorus will satisfy expectations and "make more sense" to the audience. 2 - what about the "very short gap" in my metaphor? Well, one idea would be to alter the drums on the last verse bar before the chorus so there's a clear snare hit on 3 and 4 which clues the ear that the song is not going to keep running at the 8th note pace. And if you also dial back or even drop the cymbals in that last bar past the hit on 3, you've created a connector between the 8th note buildup and the big crash into the chorus. You could flam the snare on the 3 and 4 - an old trick, right? 3 - I like that little drum fill earlier in the verse right after "pick me up again" but I think it's also a bit out of place in the overall arc of the verse. It also seems to hint at "busy drum to come in the chorus" which is part of the expectancy package, but it won't be fulfilled. I'd alter that little fill to something with fewer notes and also emphasize the hits on 3 and 4 so that is echoed in the last bar before the chorus per the above. The song construction does buck ear expectations to some extent. Which is great IMHO. It's fresh, it's inventive. That's one thing Lennon/McCartney were so brilliant at - highly contrasting sections in their tunes - but they managed to transition between the sections so well that it totally worked. It's something I work towards all the time in my songs - making big contrasts work in one tune. Probably also comes from having listened to so much Beethoven in my young days. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Great suggestions Nat! Thank you! I'll give them a try... if only I had a Ringo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Some great feedback here. I totally agree with Martin that the G move at the end of the chorus doesn't feel necessary, I'd like to hear it just going straight from the F to the verse. I also totally agree with Nat about the drums right before the chorus. Some snare and less crash (saved for the downbeat of the chorus) would make that feel much smoother. Something neither mentioned is that fill right at the end of the song, which I'm really hoping you replace. I get what you are going for, but for me it doesn't quite work. BTW, despite my comments about the chorus, I'm really envious because it has an Alice in Chains vibe that I've tried for many times but never quite captured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 15, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah... haven't nailed that ending yet. I'll try Martin's suggestion as well. Will it work though? Because I'd then be going from the F at the end of the chorus to the F to start the verse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Maybe a quick G on the 4th beat of the measure just before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 15, 2014 Members Share Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah... haven't nailed that ending yet. I'll try Martin's suggestion as well. Will it work though? Because I'd then be going from the F at the end of the chorus to the F to start the verse. I'm sure you can come up with a solution. Maybe stop the bass and have a riff...or Justin's suggestion (passing chord back to where you were). One thing: Do. Not. Lose. Half. Time. Chorus. Maybe at the end you have a freak out and have a double-time chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 So... some great feedback on another site. I'm going to try and clean this up a bit without sacrificing my half-time chorus entirely. I think this feedback along with Nat's and it'll be pretty nice. But... won't know until I try. You said you were open to ideas. So, I listened some more and realized it's not the progression of the chorus at all and it's not so much that the chorus slows down after the lead in that's bugging me, but more that the slow down lasts too long. So, now I'm thinking you can perhaps have a killer chorus and the best of both worlds, pleasing all listeners - me included. Keep everything the same for the first half/first line of the chorus, including the slowdown and half-time swaying vibe. But then, keeping the guitars, singing, etc. the same, kick the rhythm up to double that time with kick/snare drums and a faster bass like in the verse and rock it a bit for the second half/second line, which will then blend right into the rhythm of the faster chorus outro provided by the rhythm electric guitar. Stop the second-half chorus drums (maybe with a crash hit) and slow the bass back down to how it is now when you sing "love" ending the second line, and then let the tambourine and the faster solo rhythm electric guitar carry the chorus out like they do now. Am I explaining this so you get what I mean? LOL Anyway, I think Ican hear it that way, and I think I think it sounds great! Plus, think how well it would work with the lyric that way. The more easygoing "back and forth" and "drifting into each other's consciousness" expressed in the first line fitting so well with the slower pace in the first half, and then the more energetic notions of being pushed together and of love being expressed with an arrangement behind them that's pushing the rhythm with more energetic drums and bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Foose31 Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 One thing: Do. Not. Lose. Half. Time. Chorus. I agree. I really like the chorus the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I was pondering the chorus this morning and I came up with an idea that I think sounds great.... and lets you keep the music exactly as is. ...........................(1:02) BACK... and... forth... we... (1:06) driftintoeachother (1:09) Oh.... the (1:10) WORLD... is... push... ing... (1:15) us.... to... ge....ther ...........................(1:19) BACK... and... forth... we... (1:23.5) driftintoeachother... {echoes}... (1:28) love It may be a while before I can upload something, but I can PM you my phone number if you want the idea sooner. The dots in front of the "Back" lines are just trying to format so the bold word of each lines corresponds with the first downbeat of Dm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 OK - I've done some chopping and editing. Now, bare in mind, this is pretty rough... I'd have to re-cut many of the guitars and bass to really make this work. But take a listen and let me know if you think it's even remotely close to actually working. I have my opinion on it which I'll share after I've heard from some of you. http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12858687 Some of the changes include: Nat's ideas with the drums leading up to the chorus. HoboSage's idea to add double-time drums in the second half of the chorus. Martin's idea to get rid of the G chord at the end of the chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 The drums leading into the chorus are a total home run. Grand slam even. I'm not feeling the double time drums in the chorus. The F idea will work, it just needs a transitional riff or chord. Listening again.... Maybe the double time could work if you retracked the vocals to pick some of the drive? And I think I like the F better than the original even if it stays as is. BTW, do you want me to send the PM? Oh, and you might want to update the thread title that there is a new version. EDIT again... it sounds like you haven't gotten to the last pre-chorus perc fill. Or is that how you plan on it being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'm happy to listen to any idea you have... so if you can PM, please do. And yeah, probably just didn't get around to changing up the percussion fill on the last pre-chorus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 I'd keep the chorus half time, maybe save normal time that for the *last* chorus, on a second repeat of it? Where did the instrumental before v2 go (after the F), liked that - love those sloppy punk-y chords. I like how you added the G on the second time, chorus gets a little longer each time, love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 The instrumental? That's where I cut the G chord out. Didn't add anything to the second chorus... that basically stayed the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 The instrumental? That's where I cut the G chord out. Didn't add anything to the second chorus... that basically stayed the same. After ch1 you hit he F but then go right into v2. I really like that punk-y groove (F-A?) with the sloppy chords. Maybe it wasn't there before. After ch2 you go F and then G, and I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Ha. Oswlek keeps saying that it was your idea to cut that second chord out at the end of the chorus. So I tried it. I'm not a huge fan if the edit to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 It was Martin's idea. From post #46. One thing I would consider is losing the bar of G at the end of the chorus. Just go from F straight back. Personally, I dig it, it just needs a connective riff. Did you get the PM with my phone number? I'm still here, but I'll be heading home in about an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 16, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Martin must be smoking the funny stuff while his family is away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 16, 2014 Members Share Posted July 16, 2014 Oh, yeah, the changes in the drums in the verse leading up to the chorus I like a whole lot. And I'm also not sold on the double-time drums in the chorus. But you know what might work for drums in the chorus? Go back to that fill you had in the first verse (the one you changed per my suggestion) and use the unchanged version in the chorus maybe a couple of times. At least hearing it in my head that seems to work. keep going...not much longer... nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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