Members bee3 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 Always a struggle for me Lee... but thanks. What do you think of this? We are kind of like the land and sea When waves reach the shore eventually A moment in the sun, we exist as one Before we're drawn to deeper water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 9, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 9, 2014 Always a struggle for me Lee... but thanks. What do you think of this? We are kind of like the land and sea When waves reach the shore eventually A moment in the sun, we exist as one Before we're drawn to deeper water That's cool. It's not clear you're being separated but I like it. The deeper water has a perilous sound to it. I like it a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 That's cool. It's not clear you're being separated but I like it. The deeper water has a perilous sound to it. I like it a lot. Hmmm... good point. Deeper water, I think, indicates a murky, gray, perhaps unhealthy type of thing... the ups and downs... going from a moment in the sun to a more dangerous place... that kind of thing. We'll see what others have to say, but I don't know that I want 'unhealthy' to come into play here. I still like the imagery of 'whitewater'. When a wave crashes... it's a violent thing... stuff is swirling, moving around... chaos. It's interesting... a moment in the sun (nice-nice) but in the chaos of the whitewater... ultimately falling apart. I don't know. I'm still working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 9, 2014 Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 White water is the winner here, don't let it go. Any reason why Phil's suggestion isn't doable? We are like the sand and the seaWhere waves reach the shore eventuallyFor a moment as one, we are then undonePulled apart in/by the white water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 9, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 White water is the winner here, don't let it go. Any reason why Phil's suggestion isn't doable? We are like the sand and the sea Where waves reach the shore eventually For a moment as one, we are then undone Pulled apart in/by the white water No reason... I kind of skimmed past it. Whoops. Pulled apart in the whitewater. Hmmm... maybe. I don't know if 'pulled apart' is quite dramatic enough or something. Can't put my finger on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Oswlek Posted July 9, 2014 Members Share Posted July 9, 2014 Torn apart? Thrashing about? Drowning in? Lost in the chaos of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 I just listened again this morning and realised I didn't pay proper attention to the prosody with my lyric suggestion.This works (if it appeals to you) We are kind of like the sand and seaThat meet upon a shore eventuallyFor a moment we are one and then we are undone Dragged apart in the whitewater Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousnessThe world is pushing us to be together love... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 Oh, yes, something very nice in the works here. A few tweaky comments: 1 - that little bit of whammy bend you're doing on the electric sustained strum at the end of phrases - I recommend you bend it just a bit more. It's such a slight bend, the ear has to decide if it's out of tune, or if it's bending. Don't think you want some big surf music bend of course, but just a bit more. 2 - love the double-track on the vocal. When you hit the chorus with the phrase "back and forth" I think you need a change in the panning and treatment of the vocal. Spread the vocal out more across the field and drop it back a tad into some more reverb or a little delay or something is what I'd suggest trying. Give the chorus more of a distinguished feel from the verses. Of course, you're adding a bunch of dreamier instrument sounds to get this effect in the chorus, but I think the vocal needs to be more distinguished there, too. Maybe a few more layers of vocals in the comp would do it, make it lusher and more chorusy, less forward. 3 - the chorus is too trebly overall to my ear. There's the bass working away down below, but it's under a ton of very strong treble sounds. Just tamp down the treble tones a tad, I'd recommend. looking forward to hearing more of this one...what a radio-ready voice you have, lawsame. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 One other little suggestion - The nice bass riff that drives the intro and the verses - you're hitting the kick on one and three pretty much all the time. (if you're hitting it more than that, I can't hear it, which comes to the same thing) I'd try the kick as One and Two and Three and Four and One and Two and Three and Four and One with the "ands" a little bitty bit late on the grid and lower in volume. Would add a bit of snap and drive, since the bass is hitting these "ands" a lot already. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 I just listened again this morning and realised I didn't pay proper attention to the prosody with my lyric suggestion. This works (if it appeals to you) We are kind of like the sand and sea That meet upon a shore eventually For a moment we are one and then we are undone Dragged apart in the whitewater Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousness The world is pushing us to be together love... Yes - this may work... but I think I may get nailed on prosody as the empahsis tends to fall on the word 'the'... Dragged apart in the whitewater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 Probably easily fixed by: Dragged apart in whitewaaaater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 10, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 Nat - thanks for the great feedback. I'm on the fence on the bends right now as I kind of like how they sound, but maybe I'll give it a try. (You're talking about the ones in the verses? I do it in the chorus as well, but with two guitars and panned hard... it's a technique I use a lot, perhaps too much, to make my choruses a bit more ethereal). I'll give the vocals in the chorus a shot... I kind of get what you're saying. I also have added a few ear candy type of things that may fill out that middle space and may take care of the treble thing you mentioned. And the bass drum. Yes! I absolutely was going to address the drums eventually... I always start with that straight, simple beat... If this one makes the cut, I'll have a real drummer on it, but for now, love the idea you put forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 10, 2014 Members Share Posted July 10, 2014 Always a struggle for me Lee... but thanks. What do you think of this? We are kind of like the land and sea When waves reach the shore eventually A moment in the sun, we exist as one Before we're drawn to deeper water I like this a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 UPDATED. Here is a more fleshed out version, albeit, still pretty rough... http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12852895 We've broken into two what once was oneWe've shattered all the joy that once was funYet every time I fall, you pick me up againBrush me off and send me packin'... Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousnessThe world is pushing us to be together... love We are kind of like the land and seaWhen waves reach the shore eventuallyA moment in the sun, we exist as oneDragged apart in the whitewater Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousnessThe world is pushing us to be together... love Perhaps it's time to swim for shoreForget about the things not worth fighting forNever mind the ups and downs and circling aroundTogether we are something better Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousnessThe world is pushing us to be together... love Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 11, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 Nat - I haven't addressed your comments yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 11, 2014 Members Share Posted July 11, 2014 Nat - I haven't addressed your comments yet. I've been thinking about your "bends". On this updated version where you have that little vocal bit layered over the intro, the bend at that point works pretty well as it's less exposed. And the bends in the chorus I never really noticed, being a lot more buried in all the activity. Bottom line I guess is that when these bends are very exposed, they draw undue attention, but when there's enough stuff layered on, they just sink into the background and do their etherealizing thing just fine. I do the etherealizing thing with electric guitar, too. My favorite method is to lay down an electric part with no bends at all. Then I record another track of electric playing just one or two notes that follow the original part, but I bend the notes with my fingers. Doing this I can vary the speed from just a slow single bend to any speed of vibrato I like (and can manage, technique-wise). This makes the ethereal effect a "played" effect and gives me a very expressive technique to mess around with (especially compared to just a set-in-stone effect like chorusing.) The idea is that it's not (very) noticeable that a second part is being played at all, but the effect is clearly heard. Not suggesting you do this (of course if you want to..) so I'm doing my characteristic OT drift, just guitar-player chatter. I got my idea from listening to Bill Frisell. Even playing solo electric, he has this technique of bending one note while another sounded note sustains, and it creates this lovely little wavy effect like his notes are leaves on a tree and a little breeze sets one delicately drifting. Stillness and motion all at once.. Here's the old pro at it, improvising Beatle tunes - [video=youtube_share;NO-1Euq2RBk] nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 12, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 12, 2014 UPDATED. Here is a more fleshed out version' date=' albeit, still pretty rough... http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12852895 We've broken into two what once was one We've shattered all the joy that once was fun Yet every time I fall, you pick me up again Brush me off and send me packin'... Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousness The world is pushing us to be together... love We are kind of like the land and sea When waves reach the shore eventually A moment in the sun, we exist as one Dragged apart in the whitewater Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousness The world is pushing us to be together... love Perhaps it's time to swim for shore Forget about the things not worth fighting for Never mind the ups and downs and circling around Together we are something better Back and forth we drift into each other's consciousness The world is pushing us to be together... love [/quote'] Wow. You really nail that BRIDGE! The lyric is fantastic. Even more though, as I sat waiting through the second chorus I wondered where you might go from here. I'm marveling at the keyboard prolonging my wait.:-) it's such a great delaying of what is to come. Almost a solo section in itself. Then later what I guess is a pre-chorus? I love the way your tunes don't lock themselves in to each section being the same. I haven't analyzed enough to know what part is what yet when it comes to that pre-chorus section but I absolutely love it. This is just great work Justin. Knowing what you do with live musicians I can only imagine how cool this one might turn out. Nice. Of course I've got a fever so... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oldgitplayer Posted July 12, 2014 Members Share Posted July 12, 2014 Fantastic - I love it - you are great - but ………..The only thing that struck me was that you do that amazing high register chant before you start singing V1, and I thought you might have used it again as backing somewhere in the verses mix. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2014 Thanks Lee and OGP. That chant at the beginning was GOING to make it back in the song at the end... but I haven't gotten to it yet then was thinking it might be overkill. I was thinking of a bunch if different voices doing it actually. Would be cool in a live setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted July 12, 2014 Author Members Share Posted July 12, 2014 Just a few kick drum tweaks: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12853464 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mbfrancis Posted July 12, 2014 Members Share Posted July 12, 2014 Wow, this really wonderful. Astonishingly good. Such great parts and flow. (The organ is so perfect, too.) Lyrically , I only I struggle with the awkwardness of "eventually" and "whitewater," but that;'s such a great verse it makes it worth it. One thing I would consider is losing the bar of G at the end of the chorus. Just go from F straight back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Just a few kick drum tweaks: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=12853464 That's dynamite! Love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wow, this really wonderful. Astonishingly good. Such great parts and flow. (The organ is so perfect, too.) Lyrically , I only I struggle with the awkwardness of "eventually" and "whitewater," but that;'s such a great verse it makes it worth it. I kinda like "eventually." It's off-kilter but it doesn't suck. The prosody is off on "the whitewater." That's the only line I'd change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted July 13, 2014 Moderators Share Posted July 13, 2014 Since there is discussion over possible words of concern, initially I had concerns about the word consciousness. Into each other's consciousness. As opposed to the more obvious 'into each others arms'. But I just want to say, once I heard it, it was beautiful. Whether intended or not, the play with expectations for a new, fresher meaning is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members nat whilk II Posted July 13, 2014 Members Share Posted July 13, 2014 That's dynamite! Love it! Yeah, that extra kick on the "and" makes you want to move, listening to it. Sounds like maybe you either tuned down or eq'd the kick or found a different sample - sounds deeper (not just louder.) I like this lower, thumpier kick a lot. Always a battle for position between the bass and the kick. You might eq up the bass in the 180-250hz range to get a little definition back on the bass. Or some similar trick. Lee will know more about tweaking bass in the mix than me.... And it sounds like you've lightly sanded off the excess treble. Yes, a lot smoother, easier to sink into, especially that super-nice chorus. nat whilk ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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