Audition train wreck

[rangefinder]

So I meet a guy a couple of weeks ago who's looking for a lead singer for his band. I hung out with the guy for a while, and let's just say was not real impressed with anything he had to say. But I figure "screw it", I'm still trying to get started so I'll learn a few songs and see what happens.

 

I show up to the audition tonight, and it turns out the band isn't much of a band. It's more some random guys he threw together, along with a few ideas for some songs they might want to do at some point. The drummer wanders in half an hour after I get there and lights up a bong right away. The bass player shows up another 30 minutes later... without his bass.

 

They decide they want to run through the songs anyway without the bass... but they haven't really learned them. Then they say my mic is too hot, and turn me way down... you know, the guy they're trying to audition.

 

I do what I can, but I basically suck, because THEY basically suck.

 

So, I wasted two hours. Oh well.

 

My question is... should I just go with my first instincts with this sort of thing? In other words, if I meet some dude and he doesn't seem to have his {censored} together in general, should I just stop there and not mess around with further discussions/auditions? Or have some people managed to be pleasantly surprised when the first impression turned out to be wrong?

[wesg]

I like to ask questions about gig and rehearsal schedules. The answers, and how they are delivered, can be illuminating.

[wades_keys]

"My question is... should I just go with my first instincts with this sort of thing? In other words, if I meet some dude and he doesn't seem to have his {censored} together in general, should I just stop there and not mess around with further discussions/auditions? Or have some people managed to be pleasantly surprised when the first impression turned out to be wrong"

 

The question is: Who are YOU? What do YOU bring? If you know the answer to this question, then you are already associating with people on your level.

 

If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. So: either up your game or up your references. Once that's done, you won't waste your time on "jams" or "concepts"; rather you'll make your services available to working bands.

[rangefinder]

The question is: Who are YOU? What do YOU bring?

 

I have those answers, thanks.

 

If you know the answer to this question, then you are already associating with people on your level.

 

I don't see how this follows, especially because my level is "nowhere" at the moment. I don't really want to associate with people at my level. I want to learn how to effectively associate with people who are already "somewhere".

 

If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.

 

Well, I was usually the smartest person in the room when I was at Harvard, so I'm pretty much always the smartest person in the room when dive bar musicians are involved.

 

So: either up your game or up your references. Once that's done, you won't waste your time on "jams" or "concepts"; rather you'll make your services available to working bands.

 

Working bands don't want my services, because they are already working. I need to find bands that WOULD be working IF they could find a front man. This was not one of those bands. I suspected as much, but wasn't sure. I'm looking for insights on how to judge these sorts of things more effectively... from someone OTHER than wades_keys, who I am about to put back on "ignore".

 

[Dave69]

Ooooo....kkkk........so you come here to ask for advice....then get pissy or defensive when pretty damn good advice is given? Hmm.....am I missing something?

[wades_keys]

Dude, look. I'm not the one slumming with wannabe's that can't even put together a setlist. I've got no problem asking myself: "Who are You". I've got no problem stepping back from a situation that I'm not qualified to be a part of. I know where I stand, and I have the results that back that up.

 

So again I ask: Who are you? Can you play? What do you bring? And how come no one is calling you to be a part of what they do? Go ahead and be bitter all you want my brother, it's no sweat off of me. I'm just putting my money where my mouth is.

 

Get your name out there: go to open mics (as I have). Network (as I have). Establish a reputation (as I have). And you will not have these issues. Last week I didn't have a band, this week I have three gigs. And what are you doing this week besides wasting time with dudes that don't even have a band? Am I superior? No. But seems to me I'm a little further along than you.

 

But, by all means: CARRY ON.

[BlueStrat]

You know, when I was younger, I might have checked my first impressions at the door and gave them another shot. But that was then, this is now. I started playing in bands in 1971 when I was 16 years old. Its now 2014 and I'm rapidly approaching 59 years of age. And if I've learned anything, it's 1) first impressions regarding organization are generally correct, and 2) life is too short to wast time on these kinds of things.

 

Look, you were scheduled for an audition. These guys thought they were ready to audition someone, not knowing a single song, not showing up with a bass, not honoring the time you set aside to show up and try out. Everything about these guys screams assclownery. I wouldn't go back and I wouldn't give it a second thought. Determine what your standards are and stick to them. I wish I'd have done that in the past and regrettably, I wasted way too many years trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. We get what we settle for. I just wish I'd have figured that out a lot earlier.

[SpaceNorman]

When you're responding to folks looking to audition musicians - especially if it's for an unknown act who's current lineup are unknowns as well - the reality is that it's a crap shoot at best. The one thing I try to do is have a substantive telephone conversation with whoever I'm in contact with - before I'll commit to investing time and energy in an audition. There are a number of things I look to find out during that phone conversation. Things on my list to find out include the following:

 

• What is the band's instrumentation - and a little bit about the musicians that play them (age, gender, where to they live, do they have day gigs - and if so, doing what)?
  
• What type of material does the band play (or plan to play)?
  
• What is the band's PA situation?
  
• Has the band played out yet? If so, where?
  
• Does the band have any firm bookings the schedule? If so, when and where?
  
• When (how often) and where does the band plan to play? (I'm looking for specific venues)
  
• What's the story on rehearsals? (Where, when, how often, etc.)
  

 

Armed with the answers to those questions - I can make a pretty good assessment of whether there's hope that I'm a possible fit. All kids? Living with their parents? No day gigs? Minimum wagers? Playing / planning to play lots of screamo, hard rock, death metal, etc.? Lots of yesses and I know I'm not interested because I'm not a good fit. No sense wasting their time or more importantly, mine.

 

Depending on how consistent and more importantly, how realistic the answers to those questions are - will give me a pretty good sense of whether or not the guys have a clue. No PA and no reasonable plan for one? Limited playing experience but planning to book the "A" rooms in town? Playing/planning to play a hard rock playlist - and talking about restaurant gigs? Again, no sense wasting my time - I've been around the block enough to be able to spot unrealistic aspirations when I hear 'em.

 

If it seems like there's a potential for a fit - and I like what I hear in terms of the other stuff - I'll risk the time and energy it will take to audition. If the audition goes well, I like what I saw and if I get invited back .... I'll invest in a couple of practices. At this level, there are no contracts and I ain't getting "married". If I'm not happy with the progress the band makes - and/or what I see as the reasons holding the band up - I always have the option of not coming back.

 

Sure - I've been fooled by folks during the telephone interview - only to find out that situation wasn't anywhere near how it was billed. But, hey, that's the risk you have to take if you're an unknown considering an unknown act made up of unknown players. Even auditions for situations that ended up being out of the questions have the potential to be worthwhile. On more than one occasion - I've went on auditions where the band and/or the situation was way off the mark in terms of what I was looking for - BUT happened to meet somebody who I would consider working with in the process.

[wades_keys]

"We get what we settle for"

 

That is the bottom line. And it's true not only for those we interact with or want to, but ourselves and our commitment to the craft. How do you think those clowns got that way in the first place? By settling for not disciplining themselves to really learn the art and craft of performing music. No way these guys read music. No way they have formal training. No way they put in the hours required. Have you? Have I? Believe me, I have lot's of work to do. I saw a few cats this weekend on the main stage that woke me up. Always seems to work out that way, just when I get the big head.... So keep improving. Use the bench time to better yourself, stretch out, take stock, listen to recordings of yourself, take inventory.

 

Or stay bitter and hope things come to you, and wonder why nobody calls you or drops your name as a recommendation. You can do it if you commit to it: anyone can.

[wades_keys]

When you get to a certain level, the people you deal with will expect to hear and see clips of you performing on a stage, and you will expect the same. They will tell you about upcoming gigs, how long the band has been together, and what is expected. I've been caught with my pants down on that deal just recently. Blew a chance to audition for someone y'all have heard of because I didn't have my {censored} together. I'll be ready next time, and I at least have a good reference that could pay off down the road. I wasn't ready to move to the next level: didn't quite have it. Close, but no cigar. I'm cool with that, only because I know that to honor the profession I need to commit a little more fully to overcoming some of my weaknesses. I've got a few of em under control already: overplaying is happening less frequently, technique is much better, less pain; stage presence much improved, ability to retain much improved. I still have a ways to go on some other areas, and will probably wind up taking pro level lessons sometime this year to push it to the next level. I am serious about music and what I do...are you? It pays to know where you are and find people that are on that wavelength, seriously. Good luck.

[modulusman]

Just remember to walk softly and carry a big pair of subs.

[wades_keys]

And don't play country on a graphite neck bass I lost out on my big audition because I don't have a doghouse LOL. I'm gettin one this year, Lord willing.

[joshmac]

Whoa, this forum is actually getting interesting. I'm back hehe.

 

 

[joshmac]

My input: trust your first instincts. If there are a lot of redflags, and if you cannot see yourself spending a lot of time with these guys, i'd bail before any commitment is laid down. I have no time for people who are not professional.

 

[MDLMUSIC]

I went to a band audition a few weeks ago. The drummer and bass player said they wanted to put together a classic rock trio, and since that's what I had done before I moved from California, it seemed it would be a perfect fit. I knew things were not going well when the bass player brought his whole giant rig to play in the drummer's basement, schlepping it up and down a narrow stairway. Then when we started discussing songs we hit an artistic impasse. No matter what song I suggested, they either didn't know it or refused to play it, saying it was "overplayed". So I started naming bands..."How about Steppenwolf? Magic Carpet Ride? Born to be Wild?" No, the only song they wanted to do was some obscure B-side that I had never heard. So we parted ways and I'm still trying to get something started. Can't see spending practice time debating which songs should or should not be worked on.

[wesg]

I hate playing Classic Rock B-sides. I play Classic Rock because I can and people like the songs. If I wanted to be all artsy, I could go back to not making any money on the originals scene. If I really want to hear obscure B-sides from 30-year-old records, I can always download them. The first thing I ask when somebody suggests a song these days? "Was it a hit?". You better tell me yes, or you're going to have a hard time getting my buy-in.

[wades_keys]

I always expect an audition songlist, or at the very least a complete setlist, prior to going to an audition. That eliminates the issue of deciding what songs to play. But: I play bass....I've noticed with guitar that sometimes the guitarist is a big part of the song selection process, whereas bass players tend to just go with whatever the singer and guitarist want to play.

[TIMKEYS]

Its can really be a tough road when you are out doing start up band auditions. I did a lot of them when I was on the comeback trail after years out of bands. My only advise is to take em as they come and try to get the background on who they have and what their past music experience level is with bands. If it sounds interesting go give it a shot. One thing that ran common in the mulitiple start ups I checked out was that you knew on session one that there was either potential or it was just going to be jamming with some people. If they were decent guys that I liked I would do more sessions just to play and gun my chops with other musicans. When something more interesting came up , I would move on. It was a process I knew I was going to have to go through getting back in the saddle and I just made the best of it. Met some nice people, had some fun and made the transformation from a guy working on getting back into bands to a guy who can get asked to just go play a show when provided a set list and key sigs and hit stuff cold in a live setting. You do what you have to do to get where you want to go.

[Easy Listener]

That's really good advice. My weakness is seeing diamonds in the rough when what I'm actually looking at is a lump of coal. I've learned that when it looks like coal, it almost certainly needs a lot more time and pressue to be a diamond. More than I'm ever going to have the time or inclination to apply.

[nchangin]

typical bs'er that got you in the door, but your from harvard so your probably not a good bs'er cause your just so darn smart so I can't say it takes one to know one. Live and learn from it. The more bs it sounds like tends to be more of a pile of fresh steaming bs.

 

Yes you should have went with your first instincts. Especially anyone that's get's stoned or drink before they play, there is a reason why law enforcement doesn't allow people to drive cars under the influence - it's because they can't drive effectively. Same thing with an instrument, especially drums.

 

As I always don't burn bridges in any professional relationship but at the same time sometimes if you are in a profession and you hang out with the "bad crowd" you can get labeled that way. (the guy that plays with bad bands)

[wades_keys]

I hate playing Classic Rock B-sides. I play Classic Rock because I can and people like the songs. If I wanted to be all artsy, I could go back to not making any money on the originals scene. If I really want to hear obscure B-sides from 30-year-old records, I can always download them. The first thing I ask when somebody suggests a song these days? "Was it a hit?". You better tell me yes, or you're going to have a hard time getting my buy-in.

 

Amen to this. But I guess this speaks to getting paid and having viable gigs moreso than personal preference. Some cats won't play music they "don't like". Sometimes that works in terms of getting and keeping gigs, but my experience has been that most times it doesn't.

[nchangin]

 

Amen to this. But I guess this speaks to getting paid and having viable gigs moreso than personal preference. Some cats won't play music they "don't like". Sometimes that works in terms of getting and keeping gigs, but my experience has been that most times it doesn't.

 

Amen Amen. Sad but true seems to roll that way.

[wades_keys]

Really good advice here, and this is why I asked "Who are you"....not to confront you but to get you to take an honest inventory of where you are musically, what your skillsets are, and what you can or should do to up your game. Gotta make your bones somehow. I got my break by playing in basement bands with better more experienced players.

[Lee Knight]

I don't know of any musician who isn't a waste of time not having some sort of proof that he/she isn't a waste of time. A video, recording, whatever. The idea of having to travel and setup gear just to find out they're a waste of time is... uh... a waste of time. So...

 

...to the OP, it's probably pretty clear to you now that you should just ask to hear/see something before you even consider getting together. I love the drummer/bong image. That cracked me up. The bassless bass player is pretty awesome as well. I think I might've been doing the "exit-stage-left" at that point

[dan88z]

I'd have left when the bass player showed up late with no bass... I can forgive the lateness, maybe he got a flat or something, but no instrument? Gone... Though we did audition a drummer one time who forgot his cymbals. He played his butt off without them and we hired him.