Members Vito Corleone Posted March 3, 2014 Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 Since we have the capability, I thought I'd record the next few gig in multi-track and see if there's anything we can use for a video demo we need to put together.Started working on some rough mixes from the gig last night just to get familiar with the program. Don't know if I'll use anything from this track and I just slapped the audio onto the video from my cheap vidcam (DEFINATELY not the video we'll be using), but it's fun to play around with. Any experiences, tips or suggestions anyone can share for mixing live multi-track audio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted March 3, 2014 Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 I haven't mixed it with live video recording, but I've recorded friend's bands. Personally like to record the 2nd or 3rd set when the band is fully warmed up and not exhausted. I've got 16 tracks available through my Alesis Multimix16 firewire mixer. (Can also record L/R out as two additional tracks, but those are combined and not solo tracks.) There are better newer tools to do this with now, but I'm fine the way things are. (All the equipment is already paid for.) I've been using Cubase for a DAW. (Only on the Mac now.) I haven't seen if I can do all the recording to my MacBook Pro's internal drive after upgrading to a Momentus XT hybrid hard drive. Previously I recorded to a daisy-chained firewire drive. (Never could get that to work on a PC laptop. Firewire daisy-chaining works fine on a Mac.) Practice helps a lot. Don't get carried away with effects. (Record dry if at all possible.) You will get better with practice. Make sure that the speakers or headphones you're using when mixing are as flat as possible. Reference monitors help a lot here. Good headphones also help. If you're used to adding some bass or switching the Loudness switch on, you'll need to get used to hearing things flat instead. If you don't, the mixed down recording will probably sound good on some speaker systems and bad on others. I have this problem with my current docking station and computer desk. My powered speakers are no where flat enough. I did better with ear buds in an open restaurant. (Go figure.) Now on your recording, it sounds like there might be too much bass. (Through those speakers that need a serious upgrade. I also hear bass very well and don't like excessive bass and I also play bass. Go figure.) Would have been nice to have a more realistic piano sound. (I didn't find it convincing as a real piano.) Better keyboards are nearly indistinguishable from a real piano when running direct into a recording channel. Don't know what you're playing, but it probably would be better direct. I'm guessing either a mediocre amp or a mic on an amp. I don't own an amp that does it justice live, but direct, my Roland RD-300GX is extremely good while providing sounds that one normally never expect from an electronic keyboard. (Put the headphones on and just step on the sustain pedal. On my keyboard, you hear all the strings ring. I had to test it against my piano teacher's Steinway Grand and yes, that is exactly what happens with a $60K instrument when you step on the sustain pedal without playing any notes. I'm assuming the bass was a direct in. Very clean and nice sounding. (Maybe some compression there?) And I do love that song. Been a while since I've played it, but it's a winner for slow dancing. (Thank you Etta!) I also usually normalize every track down about 4 db before mixing down. It's just become a habit for starting to work on a recording. I've also come to the conclusion that I don't like doing this very much. Easier to handle in small doses. Try to attack a single song in a sitting. Take a break before going on. Evaluating every track on a recording is time consuming. It can easily take an hour. (I find myself getting bored with listening to the same song 20+ times in a mix down. Don't forget to take breaks!) I also like the recording sounding very live. Minimal processing helps here. Don't try to do too much. (K.I.S.S rule.) I don't like mixing reverb and delay in the same recording. It can be done, but can take a recording from sounding a bit live to sounding too over-processed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted March 3, 2014 Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 My eight piece act has been been futzing with board recording from the Presonus 24 channel board we use. It's purely audio at this point - but here's a link to a few of the better live recordings we've recorded at a gig back in early January. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bu23kh7jyciv0f3/Hw1CfmlCiWIt's rough ... but certainly a pretty good representation of what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeeU 22 Posted March 3, 2014 Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 Dave, I can't give you much advice on the multi tracking as I haven't done much of it myself. But some for some off topic constructive criticism. You need to improve your lighting cues. I know you are working on an in depth lighting plan possibly using ableton, etc. This is such a beautiful song, but the "disco" lights flashing are working against you for creating the mood you want create. It would be the musical equivalent of Yngwie Malmsteen dropping sixty second guitar solo into the song. Do you currently have the ability to easily switch you lights to a static scene for some of your softer songs? A cool blue wash across the stage with you lead girl highlighted in a bastard amber set up as a static scene would be a huge improvement. By the way, you guys sound great as usual. I might steal your girls just wanna have fun medley as we'll. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 3, 2014 Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 Here's a few songs I recorded multitrack with my SL24.4.2 I know little of how to use a DAW, so I basically played it back through the board and mixed it "live" down to a stereo 2 track. It is what it is. Not bad for online, FB etc.http://soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/authority/s-XaMK3http://soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/beer/s-0UPGIhttp://soundcloud.com/the-band-wolf/rainy/s-iQMSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 WynnD wrote:I haven't mixed it with live video recording, but I've recorded friend's bands. Personally like to record the 2nd or 3rd set when the band is fully warmed up and not exhausted. I've got 16 tracks available through my Alesis Multimix16 firewire mixer. (Can also record L/R out as two additional tracks, but those are combined and not solo tracks.) There are better newer tools to do this with now, but I'm fine the way things are. (All the equipment is already paid for.) I've been using Cubase for a DAW. (Only on the Mac now.) I haven't seen if I can do all the recording to my MacBook Pro's internal drive after upgrading to a Momentus XT hybrid hard drive. Previously I recorded to a daisy-chained firewire drive. (Never could get that to work on a PC laptop. Firewire daisy-chaining works fine on a Mac.) Practice helps a lot. Don't get carried away with effects. (Record dry if at all possible.) You will get better with practice. Make sure that the speakers or headphones you're using when mixing are as flat as possible. Reference monitors help a lot here. Good headphones also help. If you're used to adding some bass or switching the Loudness switch on, you'll need to get used to hearing things flat instead. If you don't, the mixed down recording will probably sound good on some speaker systems and bad on others. I have this problem with my current docking station and computer desk. My powered speakers are no where flat enough. I did better with ear buds in an open restaurant. (Go figure.) Now on your recording, it sounds like there might be too much bass. (Through those speakers that need a serious upgrade. I also hear bass very well and don't like excessive bass and I also play bass. Go figure.) Would have been nice to have a more realistic piano sound. (I didn't find it convincing as a real piano.) Better keyboards are nearly indistinguishable from a real piano when running direct into a recording channel. Don't know what you're playing, but it probably would be better direct. I'm guessing either a mediocre amp or a mic on an amp. I don't own an amp that does it justice live, but direct, my Roland RD-300GX is extremely good while providing sounds that one normally never expect from an electronic keyboard. (Put the headphones on and just step on the sustain pedal. On my keyboard, you hear all the strings ring. I had to test it against my piano teacher's Steinway Grand and yes, that is exactly what happens with a $60K instrument when you step on the sustain pedal without playing any notes. I'm assuming the bass was a direct in. Very clean and nice sounding. (Maybe some compression there?) And I do love that song. Been a while since I've played it, but it's a winner for slow dancing. (Thank you Etta!) I also usually normalize every track down about 4 db before mixing down. It's just become a habit for starting to work on a recording. I've also come to the conclusion that I don't like doing this very much. Easier to handle in small doses. Try to attack a single song in a sitting. Take a break before going on. Evaluating every track on a recording is time consuming. It can easily take an hour. (I find myself getting bored with listening to the same song 20+ times in a mix down. Don't forget to take breaks!) I also like the recording sounding very live. Minimal processing helps here. Don't try to do too much. (K.I.S.S rule.) I don't like mixing reverb and delay in the same recording. It can be done, but can take a recording from sounding a bit live to sounding too over-processed. Thanks for a suggestions. Mixing multi-track audio for myself is something I've never actually done before, so it'll be a work in progress for sure. The bass and keys are both direct in, and yes I added some compression on the bass. (neither has any stage volume at all other than a wedge monitor that the guitarist uses since he refuses to use in-ears) I probably should back off the compression a bit if it's noticeable!And yes, I agree the bass is too loud and the keys probably need to come up. I tend to over-shoot on bass when mix sometimes. A preference can easily turn into a fault. I need to watch that.As far as the piano sound goes? Actually the grand piano sounds I use on the Kronos are pretty solid. As good as any workstation piano out there, I think. If it doesn't sound authentic, I'll chock that up to the player. lol. I'm running direct, so I can't use that excuse! As far as playing the song goes, I'll say that this song is a bit of challenge for me because I'm using a piano/strings layer patch and the strings really carry the track (more so than the piano, IMO) on the Etta James version which we're going off of. So I'm kinda of mentally caught between do I play the piano part and let the strings follow along? Or do I play the string part and let the piano follow along? The end result being that I'm kind of just caught between the two and not nailing either part. So I've gotta get more solid on where I'm going with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 WynnD wrote: I also usually normalize every track down about 4 db before mixing down. It's just become a habit for starting to work on a recording. I've also come to the conclusion that I don't like doing this very much. Easier to handle in small doses. Try to attack a single song in a sitting. Take a break before going on. Evaluating every track on a recording is time consuming. It can easily take an hour. (I find myself getting bored with listening to the same song 20+ times in a mix down. Don't forget to take breaks!) I also like the recording sounding very live. Minimal processing helps here. Don't try to do too much. (K.I.S.S rule.) I don't like mixing reverb and delay in the same recording. It can be done, but can take a recording from sounding a bit live to sounding too over-processed. Yes, pre-preparation of the tracks in essential. Normalizing them all first is a good suggestion. I hadn't thought of that. I wasn't expecting (but am pleased) that all the tracks came to me "dry". I was wondering what I'd do if a track had been recorded with too much reverb on it or some such. Apparently, unlike the two-track mixdowns of the live shows the soundguy has been giving me before, when you set the board (Behringer X32 in this case) up for multi-track they record "pre" any processing. Or it gives you that option, anyway. But that means I have to go through and set up any compression, reverb, EQ etc on each track. Because it's all from the same gig, the setting are pretty going to the same for every song. Learning as I go. Like I said, this is my first complete hands-on experience with a DAW, so just learning everything I can do with it is the first trick. Fun stuff though. I don't really mind listening to the same track 20 times. Having that much free time is another issue though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 3, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 3, 2014 Nice tips, Lee! Thanks a bunch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 4, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 4, 2014 Here's another attempt at another song. More going on with this one. Tried to use some of the suggestions here. Vocals are still kinda "murky", I think, but part of that is probably because the vocal tracks are a bit of a mess to begin with since all the live PA and stage volumes are being picked up there too as well?Getting better at it though I think. Fun stuff. Don't think I'd wanna do it for a living like Lee Knight, but I have a good time playing with it! Can't wait to start shooting some real video though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted March 5, 2014 Members Share Posted March 5, 2014 guido61 wrote: Since we have the capability, I thought I'd record the next few gig in multi-track and see if there's anything we can use for a video demo we need to put together. Started working on some rough mixes from the gig last night just to get familiar with the program. Don't know if I'll use anything from this track and I just slapped the audio onto the video from my cheap vidcam (DEFINATELY not the video we'll be using), but it's fun to play around with. Any experiences, tips or suggestions anyone can share for mixing live multi-track audio? I've done lots of live multi-track recording. However, I would say record a few shows 2 track from the board as well as with some good ambient mics plus your camera. Find the good takes for the minute of each song you need, edit all the audio in to taste so you get the room, the crowd etc...and do it that way. If you can play and your PA is set well, you won't need it all multi-tracked and tweaked (or need to go in and recut parts which is the only reason you really need to multi-track record your show). I found recording the band over a weekend direct off the board and camera and maybe a stereo ambient source was sufficient to make really good sounding live EPK pack stuff. If I were trying to make a live album or DVD however, I would multi-track it, tweak in studio then Mix. So it depends on what it's for but generally, live off the board will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted March 5, 2014 Author Members Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah, I know multitrack is overkill for a demo. Mostly this just because I want to learn how to use the DAW. And, since recording multi track really isn't much harder than recording two-track, then why not? I'm only going to be using 4-5 minutes at the most anyway. So mixing those few bits isn't going to be that big a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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