Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was checking out corporate/wedding bands in my area and it ranged from Swiss to Sharp cheddar!!! NO ONE was undeniable. NO ONE was the deal...chops, feel, show, list, look..Some were ok... No one made me say He'll yea!! Even the top bands..I'm shocked..Discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 sventvkg wrote:I was checking out corporate/wedding bands in my area and it ranged from Swiss to Sharp cheddar!!! NO ONE was undeniable. NO ONE was the deal...chops, feel, show, list, look..Some were ok... No one made me say He'll yea!! Even the top bands..I'm shocked..Discuss? A few years back when we decided to get into doing the corp/wedding thing, the level of cheese I saw on Gigmasters was one of the things that convinced me that "yes! even WE can do this!"The main thing I saw was how dated a lot of the bands looked and sounded. So I went with a rock-band attitude-with-classier-trimmings approach and it seemed to work and create a niche. In the last couple of years I've seen a lot of other bands do similar things as more and more people seem to be giving up on the bar/club scene as they are getting older.But yes, the bar is not all that high. The bands aren't that good, the promos aren't that slick. It doesn't take that much to stand out above the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 sventvkg wrote:I was checking out corporate/wedding bands in my area and it ranged from Swiss to Sharp cheddar!!! NO ONE was undeniable. NO ONE was the deal...chops, feel, show, list, look..Some were ok... No one made me say He'll yea!! Even the top bands..I'm shocked..Discuss? Your comments surprise me in two ways. First - I'm surprised about what you feel you didn't see. Second, I'm a little surprised by what you apparently didn't see in what you actually saw. First, let's talk about what you feel you didn't see. Musicians who are THE DEAL don't work the corporate / wedding band market. I'd equate looking at Gigmasters thinking you might spot the deal with going to the home decor department at your local Target store thinking you might spot a truly valuable piece of fine art. It's a nice thought - but why you'd think you were going to see the deal by looking at corporate/wedding bands on Gigmasters is a surprise in itself. Now let's talk about what you apparently didn't see in what you actually saw. If the bands you looked at are in fact some of the top Corporate/Wedding acts in your area (note that that is definitely not a given - since pretty much everybody on Craigslist claims to be a premiere act) ... you were looking at bands that have managed to assemble, package and successfully market some of the most commercially viable local acts in your area. While you certainly weren't looking at players who qualify as the deal - it is safe to say they were most likely very competent musicians with decent chops, competent vocals - and a relatively high degree of professionalism - playing material that audiences have shown a willingness to pay for. It's highly unlikely you're going to see the deal playing in corporate/wedding acts - but, if you're looking at bands that are truly successful in the corporate/wedding scene dismissing them as not being good simply isn't giving them the credit they're due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SeniorBlues Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 I don't disagree with the premise of the question. This is a separate point, but when I auditioned with a wedding/events band several years ago I was disappointed to find that they weren't nearly as good as their promo material. They featured "Nowhere to Run" carried by a strong bass track played by a guy who hadn't been with the band in years. So I take all those tracks with a grain of salt.More to the point, fairly or not, I've found that virtually all of the Gigmasters (or similar) bands I've heard sounded "polite" rhythmically. It's as if a serious grooving band would be too oppressive in some way, But you all have probably heard a lot more of this type of act than I have, despite my age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Maybe I didn't make myself clear Norman. I'm not referring to individual elements or players because there were some decent players but the overall product they put out was not good by and large. Mostly schlocky non-soulful delivery of songs just cheesy for the most part amateur production, etc certainly nowhere near the level I would put out or of a bank like guido linked one time called Tainted Love which to me represents the minimum level in my my opinion one would need to be as an act to command high dolllar corporate gigs. I understand that my standards are high and most likely higher than most. How ever I figured they were other musicians out there who shared my standards but I've come to find that my partner Mark and I are the exception rather than the rule. There tends to be a lot of laziness and a lot of excuses with musicians whether then someone who strives for greatness, anyway that's what we've seen from the individual level even up to them moderate to mid to higher and corporate markets for bands. All the better for someone who wants to come in and kick the **** out of it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIMKEYS Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 sventvkg wrote:Maybe I didn't make myself clear Norman. I'm not referring to individual elements or players because there were some decent players but the overall product they put out was not good by and large. Mostly schlocky non-soulful delivery of songs just cheesy for the most part amateur production, etc certainly nowhere near the level I would put out or of a bank like guido linked one time called Tainted Love which to me represents the minimum level in my my opinion one would need to be as an act to command high dolllar corporate gigs. I understand that my standards are high and most likely higher than most. How ever I figured they were other musicians out there who shared my standards but I've come to find that my partner Mark and I are the exception rather than the rule. There tends to be a lot of laziness and a lot of excuses with musicians whether then someone who strives for greatness, anyway that's what we've seen from the individual level even up to them moderate to mid to higher and corporate markets for bands. All the better for someone who wants to come in and kick the **** out of it!!! you have any footage up of the event band you are working with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SpaceNorman Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 sventvkg wrote:Maybe I didn't make myself clear Norman. I'm not referring to individual elements or players because there were some decent players but the overall product they put out was not good by and large. Mostly schlocky non-soulful delivery of songs just cheesy for the most part amateur production, etc... From that perspective, I'm not surprised - because from that perspective you're really assessing the quality of the video you've seen - and not necessarily the bands themselves. Lot's of factors come into play when you're talking about a video - including song selection, the bands' experience in front of a camera, the "weirdness" associated with getting pumped to play for a camera - while standing what often ends up being a relatively brightly lit room with either no crowd, or maybe a staged crowd. Last but certainly not least - budget. Getting a good video is definitely NOT easy. Alot of what you see on Gigmasters certainly doesn't put the bands performing in them in their best light. Lots of bands that are good live - just don't have the budget, experience and/or access to expertise to create a good live video ... and end up with a "flat" performance filmed in a "staged" video shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 The band I'm working with is on there and are one of the top bands in the area both or bookings and sound. They have their small issues (not that diverse or deep of a song list) but we've got 5 singers, great production and talent up the arse. That said, it's not my band and certainly not what I'm ultimately planning on putting out. We're putting together a show entirely synced together and tight. Tracks, video, lights, moves on stage. A whole show. But that's down the line:) We are getting new pictures and a video soon and when it's done I'll link it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Sven... It's not a lack of talent and effort that plagues bands to attain that level. It's a lack of investment money. Let's be honest... for the product you imagine you want to put out there... and what it will cost to produce it will amount to a large sum of money for any band. I looked into LED fabric and the mimimum cost was $8-10K just to start with 5'x7' curtains. Tracking alone with the right equipement can cost a few $thousand dollars... lighting and visuals $10K-20K minimum... you have to pay the players... you have to transport... and you have to travel, b/c let's face it, how many $10K and up gigs exist within 200 mile radius of any city. Tons of money needs to go in to marketing. These bands require full time effort yet in many cases there isn't enough calendar bookings to maintaing a full time schedule. In most cases I see one bandleader who owns the production and then hires the players. These are not bands, these are acts. They are managed as such. In many cases the people running the production are earning more than the people performing on stage. I see the top event bands in the Northeast with big wholes in their calendars. It's well know what their minimum rates are to get or change a booking, but it's also well known that many of these bands will play for less just to keep working, How many gigs do you need to play before you recover $30-50K of investment? 6 months... one year? We just reinvested $3000 back into the band and we're lucky to have 30% of our calendar filled... and we are not on the level you've described. I think the reason you don't see many bands reaching for that brass ring is b/c there isn't as much money minues the expenses to gain as you might think there is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 What you're seeing with Gigmasters generally is the 2nd tier (and lower) bands trying to book themselves. While I could point you to a couple of exceptions, for the most part a band like Tainted Love isn't going to use GM because they don't have to. They've got every agency in Northern California working overtime to keep them booked. As far as the quality of the overall products--most of these guys are weekend warrior types just trying to be the best band they can be and, speaking as one myself and not trying to make excuses, but...there really is only so much time bands like this can put into group rehearsals and performances. And at some point those limitations are going to show Speaking of Tainted Love, I went to check out those guys a few weeks ago (playing at a casino showroom where they sold probably 500 tickets at $25 a pop --- really? For a cover band???) and they are an outstanding band. Top of line presentation from top to bottom at all levels. And yes, they used some tracks. Though not a lot. Not on every song and nothing more than some extra keyboard parts and some percussion. Some synth bass. But this band -- both in terms of quality and draw -- are the result of a dozen+ years of constant gigging and being on the scene. And I'm pretty sure they all are doing this full time. While it's certainly POSSIBLE you could the right group of talented and dedicated players and be able to put out something at that level in 6 months, I don't think it'd be easy or likely. And like Norman said, a lot of these bands are probably better than their promo indicates. So many bands--especially those doing it themselves and especially older guys-- don't really have a clue about how to put together a promo pak thats relevant and competitive for 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 guido61 wrote:What you're seeing with Gigmasters generally is the 2nd tier (and lower) bands trying to book themselves. While I could point you to a couple of exceptions, for the most part a band like Tainted Love isn't going to use GM because they don't have to. They've got every agency in Northern California working overtime to keep them booked. As far as the quality of the overall products--most of these guys are weekend warrior types just trying to be the best band they can be and, speaking as one myself and not trying to make excuses, but...there really is only so much time bands like this can put into group rehearsals and performances. And at some point those limitations are going to show Speaking of Tainted Love, I went to check out those guys a few weeks ago (playing at a casino showroom where they sold probably 500 tickets at $25 a pop --- really? For a cover band???) and they are an outstanding band. Top of line presentation from top to bottom at all levels. And yes, they used some tracks. Though not a lot. Not on every song and nothing more than some extra keyboard parts and some percussion. Some synth bass. But this band -- both in terms of quality and draw -- are the result of a dozen+ years of constant gigging and being on the scene. And I'm pretty sure they all are doing this full time. While it's certainly POSSIBLE you could the right group of talented and dedicated players and be able to put out something at that level in 6 months, I don't think it'd be easy or likely. And like Norman said, a lot of these bands are probably better than their promo indicates. So many bands--especially those doing it themselves and especially older guys-- don't really have a clue about how to put together a promo pak thats relevant and competitive for 2014. Right..Good points and I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Those are some big numbers!! I have about $11,000 Invested in my light rig, not counting the laptop, and using 4 used Martin Minimac profiles. It looks great!! Like others have said, weekend warriors who happen to have a sound guy (me) in the band, so we use my rig, and it sets us apart from other bands. Them:http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/997D397B-4028-4EE2-B749-802284B97561-4571-000002B064AE2DEE_zpsca374e47.jpg Us:http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/0440C08B-37ED-48CC-8F7A-33FD49A9F611-4571-000002B06F67B7A1_zps9de960cd.jpghttp://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/46979C7E-DAF0-469F-99B3-0411C39BE5F2-1376-000000B37ECB127A_zps115cbbbc.jpg The only problem is we can't use haze in some of the venues so we only use the basic backlinehttp://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z398/robare99/2F873EE4-2C65-4B4A-8B53-542E9DE408E4-9286-000006728CE92D01_zps447dff93.jpg We make some decent coin but nothing like the $3k- $5k/gig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 Well grant I totally see that myself, hence the replication and system come into play. I you have a bunch of shows going on regionally for $1500 it's obviously better. If you can get said act out on a few cruise ships all the better:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 20, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 We played a show 4 hrs North in Washington IN 2 Sats ago and made $2200 plus 3 hotel rooms at Holiday Inn express. They Loved it and they were selling tickets for $15 at the door. We had it packed and they booked us 2 more times this yea. But even this band does a few lower paying club shows here and there in the slower season. Nature of the beast I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted February 20, 2014 Members Share Posted February 20, 2014 sventvkg wrote:If you can get said act out on a few cruise ships all the better:) Are many/most cruise ship bands operating at a higher level of sound/show quality than what you find from the better bands on GM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wheresgrant3 Posted February 21, 2014 Members Share Posted February 21, 2014 sventvkg wrote: Well grant I totally see that myself, hence the replication and system come into play. I you have a bunch of shows going on regionally for $1500 it's obviously better. If you can get said act out on a few cruise ships all the better:) I hate to say it... because you always want to think that bringing the show up a notch will pay off dividends down the road, but the fact is I rarely see a band that invest heavily in the show move from $1000 to $3000 a show in the blink of an eye. The reason being the established bands have the tesitmonials, the experience and the reputation to compete against. There are a handful of bands in my market that when you mention the name the immediate perception from anyone's mouth is they are the best band for any event. I'm sure my previous band benefitted from that on a local level for many years. If you plan to make some serious investments as a startup band you'd best be prepared to have a 5 year plan. That's what it appears to me how long it takes a band to establish a binding reputation among agents, bookers, club managers and event planners... and those are really the gatekeepers for the best paying gigs. I think many bands don't invest in that much b/c they don't know whether they will last that long.... and the ones that do don't plan on the competition lasting that long. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted February 21, 2014 Author Members Share Posted February 21, 2014 Guido, the ship band I was in was better than the GM bands I've seen for sure but I suspect the quality varies depending if it's an American Cruise line or European or Asian Greek etc. I can definitely see the benefits of a standard system across the board say On all carnival ships for instance. My thinking is the money would not be fantastic but if you have 10 bands going at the same time and it was a steady contract it could be profitable. Also with the plug and play system I'm developing I could change players in and out after one or two months instead of the standard six-month contract that the musicians usually have to sign. Having done a lot of ships I see a huge advantage in being able to switch out players because for personal reasons and other reasons it's hard to keep players lockdown on a ship for six months, and even harder to get good players because they don't want to be away from their families that long. This way I could attract better players to go out for one month of the time than the younger less experienced less skilled musicians you tend to have to get. Another advantage is a lot of ships already provide front of house sound so you don't need to bring that just your stage gear and whatever you're running the show with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted February 21, 2014 Members Share Posted February 21, 2014 How much are the musicians getting paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.