Members whinersmusic Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by Anderton And what have I ever said that would cause you to infer that? ... Thanks .. I also indicated it could be me and maybe it is! Obviously no one else is uptight about it so let the trend support a thumbs up for this aspect. Glad you went the extra mile and I can't argue with data. I go back to the statements about reviews and how to take out what you can from them. I don't mind being perceived as somewhat of a devil's advocate or off the mark (not to say I don't believe what I've already said). I don't think the unit is a waste of cash at all but, at the same time, it has a few disappointments. Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whinersmusic Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by Anderton Regarding Whinersmusic...after reviewing his posts, he said in order to avoid distortion he’s setting his vocals so that he just tickles the green LED, because otherwise he gets clipping when the harmonies come in. Just want to add I've varied the levels from hot to not so hot and the best rendering comes from tickling the green - true on both the VL 4 and 2. I would love to go hotter but can't, it seems, for peeks distortion when the harmony kicks in. So, yes, that would account for some of the hiss. I think my post on what I shoot for on levels is self explanatory and probably couldn't be argued with. Just the subjective nature of my ear is where you would seemingly catch me and perhaps what I'm freaking out about as "distortion" is just mixer overload though I can't believe I'm that stupid. I do find I have to get the green strong for the guitar and that is not distorting at all so go figure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by whinersmusic Thanks .. I also indicated it could be me and maybe it is! I don't think it's you, I think it's a misadjustment somewhere in your system. Try boosting the input and turning the vocal and harmony controls way down, and report back if that helps reduce the hiss issue. Good luck! Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Angel Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Anderton,Thanks for going the extra mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whinersmusic Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by Anderton And what have I ever said that would cause you to infer that? I just realized that on my post it had "so you think hiss is ok for recording". Yikes! I had thought I wrote "so you think the hiss is ok for recording?" Meaning the hiss from the unit isn't enough of an issue to prevent good results. Really wasn't my intention to imply that anyone would think hiss is good for recording. So, Anderton, you never did say anything to cause me to infer that and sorry for the typo. I'll also try going line out as opposed to XLR out from the units given that anything from balanced to unbalanced cables to line level variances from the XLR vs. the line outs could be an issue. I have a 16 board firewire ALESIS unit that was $680 and some change that is quiet and distortion free on mic direct in so I don't think it's my gear per se. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Omaha Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by whinersmusic Thanks for this. So you think hiss is ok for recording? Though your clips sound fine I'm not sure I can agree that it passes the test as a unit you could rely on for recording. Recording is a non-issue for me, but I do think there is a reason this is called the Vocalist Live...it was made for live work. Generated harmonies in a studio environment make little sense to me. I really think DigiTech is going to have to add midi to have the unit really take a hold of the market. Here's the thing: The whole concept behind this box is simplicity. Everyone, my self included, can look at this and say "it would be better for me if it had this feature or that". In my case, I wish it had a straight (unprocessed) "vocal out" jack so I could run clean vocals to a monitor. But if you take my feature, and your's and Dick's and Harry's and Jane's and John's, add them all to the box, it stops being simple. And at that point, you may as well buy something else. Another guy in my band has the TC Helicon. Side by side, my take is that the Helicon might have slightly better tone, but at an enormous cost in terms of usability. The VL4 you can plug in, and immediately start getting workable harmonies right out of the box. Try that with a Helicon. NFW. It is interesting to note that if you search for "Digitech" at www.musiciansfriend.com and sort the resulting products by popularity, the VL4 is on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fuzzball Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Obviously the item is selling well since you have to wait forever to get one.This thread and the V2 unit thread have both been very helpful and informative. Before this I was sure to get a TC Helicon....now my head is spining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 About that "Hard Day's Night" example...try playing a Csus2 (or maybe a Cadd9) instead of a Cmaj, and you should get the G no matter how you sing. Basically, if the note you're singing is in the chord and the harmony note you want is in the chord, you're pretty sure to get that harmony note. In this kind of situation, you can think of your guitar as the "user interface" for making sure you get the notes you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by whinersmusic I just realized that on my post it had "so you think hiss is ok for recording". Yikes! I had thought I wrote "so you think the hiss is ok for recording?" Meaning the hiss from the unit isn't enough of an issue to prevent good results. Really wasn't my intention to imply that anyone would think hiss is good for recording. So, Anderton, you never did say anything to cause me to infer that and sorry for the typo. Well, it's funny how one word can make such a HUGE difference! Okay, now what you said makes a whole lot more sense!! Do keep us posted on your progress with chasing down whatever the problem might be. If you've experienced a problem, it's almost certain someone else will experience the same problem and you might be able to save them a lot of hassle. I will say the VL4 gets a "clean bill of health" here regarding noise and distortion, so unless your unit has a defect, you should be able to enjoy the same level of performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Musicman~ Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Originally Posted by jerrye Freakin' bummer. I just lost my interest in the 4. I was hoping and expecting this P correct - MusiQ integration. I use a TC Helicon for pitch correction, and after experimenting with the parameters, I make the best of my shredder guitar player's voice. The problem is that using chromatic is often not good enough, and I use a FCB 1010 midi pedal to change keys, live, between songs and even mid song. BTW, using P correction in the woodshed gives me quicker feedback than does a recording, as far as whether I'm on pitch. I then try to adjust my vocal instrument according to things learned from voice lessons. Thanks to all who've written about this gear. That's a shame Jerrye. I ordered my VL4 today (I can always return it) and I am hoping it can do half the things I can do using my FCB1010 and the digitech Studio vocalist. The pitch correction feature should help avoid the 'swooping' effect. In the Studio Vocalist, there is a selection of 'smooth' which gives the 'swoopy' sound or 'step' which gives the clean neat harmonies. What amazes me is that my model has been taken 'off the market' for some time now and Digitech is re-inventing the wheel. If the VL4 only had midi, it would be the ultimate machine, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Musicman~ Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by orbm1 Hey guys... can anybody upload a video or audio file to see/listen the vl4 in action?? Mine is backordered and I would like at least to see it in action. Thanks Omar Try this link http://www.youtube.com/user/TommieD1 He is in another forum (Bose ) and the Vl2 and 4 are topics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members m1westwood Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 All,I have been following the wishes for Midi on the VL4 - well I have some interesting news for you. My wife threw away my Musician's Friend Catalog, much to my chagrin, when I heard they were still honoring the original price. So I ordered another - hoping it would be the old one. Unfortunately, they sent me the September rendition with the full 499 price tag. The funny thing is, when the Musician's Friend September issue arrived, they made a mistake and claimed that the VL4 also has Midi inputs for Keyboard Players :-) Maybe they are throwing it in as a bonus.Anderton, thanks for all the clips. If you get a chance to do a few more with Pitch Correction, and hearing the guitar I would appreciate it. The a capella certainly did give us an great feel for what the unit puts out - but I am also interested in the chords being played to get the sound, and the timing of the chord changes - my fear is I may have to attack chord changes earlier than I might be used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whinersmusic Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by Omaha ... Here's the thing: The whole concept behind this box is simplicity. Everyone, my self included, can look at this and say "it would be better for me if it had this feature or that". In my case, I wish it had a straight (unprocessed) "vocal out" jack so I could run clean vocals to a monitor. But if you take my feature, and your's and Dick's and Harry's and Jane's and John's, add them all to the box, it stops being simple. And at that point, you may as well buy something else. Of course you are absolutely right but DigiTech is on the cusp of a total package that could virtually satisfy all with just a few more tweaks. The VL 2 is the simple beast without question. As soon as DigiTech got into pitch and patches etc etc on the VL 4, they opened the door on refining the unit to meet more needs. If they are smart, they will think about advancing the concept and it wouldn't have to take away from the KISS principle. From the trail here, there is a clear wish (and disappointment at the lack thereof) for midi and also straight vocal out. That's not a huge wish list. The challenge is to add it without adding "fat" to the unit. Of course, we'll have to pay more for it but that's a fair trade. So, I'd say wish away ... and let them know via these kinds of forums what we're looking for. How else will they hear from the users? (I guess there are other ways too but this is a good one at any rate.) I imagine they are a bit ahead of us in developing further. Originally Posted by Omaha It is interesting to note that if you search for "Digitech" at www.musiciansfriend.com and sort the resulting products by popularity, the VL4 is on top. This is great and suggests they have a live one on their hands. Nice addition to the info here. No doubt it must be satisfying to the developers at DigiTech even if we are jawing a bit about this and that ... never hurts to know you did something that catches on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arizona Ken Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Thanks Anderton. I was Googling around earlier this week and ran across the Pro Review Site and the discussions on the VL2 and VL4. I have spent the last few days going through the posts. This forum has done a great job in reviewing this unit. I'm just a hobbiest, but have sung for a long time, and have played guitar for a number of years. The VL4 looks like a great unit to have fun with.I just got "in line" at MF to get one of the units when they get in.How fast can you toggle the voices on and off? What could be fun is to do a "call and response" song with the "chorus" (like in the gospel setting) responding to a lead voice. Do the pedals seem sturdy enough to take that kind of repeated use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whinersmusic Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by Arizona Ken How fast can you toggle the voices on and off? What could be fun is to do a "call and response" song with the "chorus" (like in the gospel setting) responding to a lead voice. Do the pedals seem sturdy enough to take that kind of repeated use? You can do this really fast - it works great! I do this all the time and no issues except for your timing on the foot on and off so to speak - it's all on you to get it right but the unit works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Musicman~ Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by Arizona Ken Thanks Anderton. I was Googling around earlier this week and ran across the Pro Review Site and the discussions on the VL2 and VL4. I have spent the last few days going through the posts. This forum has done a great job in reviewing this unit. I'm just a hobbiest, but have sung for a long time, and have played guitar for a number of years. The VL4 looks like a great unit to have fun with. I just got "in line" at MF to get one of the units when they get in. How fast can you toggle the voices on and off? What could be fun is to do a "call and response" song with the "chorus" (like in the gospel setting) responding to a lead voice. Do the pedals seem sturdy enough to take that kind of repeated use? I think the harmony pedal can be set so the harmony stays on as long as you hold the pedal down. This way you are saving and extra 'step.' (no pun intended ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members terrasini74 Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 i don't know whether or not this has been brought up, but when you choose to harmonize a 3rd above, it sometimes goes up a 4th when using musicIQ. For example, when i sing an F# with a Bmi chord, the unit chooses a B instead of an A. Even when i play a Bmi7, the unit still chooses a B. It's not the end of the world, but an actual 3rd above an F# is very pleasing to the ear even when sung over a Bmi chord. And some songs require it. To overcome this problem, i turn off the MusicIQ and choose a DMa scale for the hamornies. When this is done, it will always choose an actual 3rd above. Unfortunately, if the song requires a key change, then this option isn't practical since you'll have to push the key change button with your finger during the song, unless you play barefoot and can click the key change button with a toe. Does anyone know how we can always get an actual 3rd above when using MusicIQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members whinersmusic Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Originally Posted by ~Musicman~ I think the harmony pedal can be set so the harmony stays on as long as you hold the pedal down. This way you are saving and extra 'step.' (no pun intended ) This is an option for sure and works even better for this type of thing (quick harmony on and off) The actual lock on and off isn't really that much slower though - the issue I've found with the lock on off is that you can lose track whether you are on or off. The hold down for harmony feature is a can't screw it up thing because "if your foot ain't on the pedal ... harmony ain't on". The expression pedal option also works for this - the only thing here is that the harmony level is also set by the pedal ... so bringing the pedal all the way up brings on your harmony on as well as to the max harmony level. So, you've got the three choices if you want 'em - have to program the expression pedal for each patch though since the programming isn't designed (in this area) to go across all the patches. The harmony hold down on the switch does go across all the patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Arizona Ken Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Thank you for the prompt replies!Arizona Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ~Musicman~ Posted September 29, 2007 Members Share Posted September 29, 2007 Originally Posted by terrasini74 i don't know whether or not this has been brought up, but when you choose to harmonize a 3rd above, it sometimes goes up a 4th when using musicIQ. For example, when i sing an F# with a Bmi chord, the unit chooses a B instead of an A. Even when i play a Bmi7, the unit still chooses a B. It's not the end of the world, but an actual 3rd above an F# is very pleasing to the ear even when sung over a Bmi chord. And some songs require it. To overcome this problem, i turn off the MusicIQ and choose a DMa scale for the hamornies. When this is done, it will always choose an actual 3rd above. Unfortunately, if the song requires a key change, then this option isn't practical since you'll have to push the key change button with your finger during the song, unless you play barefoot and can click the key change button with a toe. Does anyone know how we can always get an actual 3rd above when using MusicIQ? Bummer! Maybe check your pitch correction settings or the other related settings. (Mine is in transit ) It could be that your voice is is off enough to qualify as a 'G.' In the IQ mode, try playing a chord and sing the scale (doe, ray, me...) and see how well it tracks the third above harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lhoard Posted September 29, 2007 Members Share Posted September 29, 2007 Originally Posted by Keithos28 Congrats on the $20 discount. I got mine [VL4] two weeks ago; after waiting since June. Had to use 'strong arm' tatics; i.e. 'Can I talk to your supervisor' etc..'This is impacting my Job, soon I'll have to sue' ...only joking did'nt go exactly that far ! This was to Musicians Friend; finally [they said] I seemed to somehow have jumped to the top of pile, or thereabouts. Be Firm and agressive; make threats 'from now on I'll buy everything from George's Music'........good luck.... Musicians Friend put the big one to me (I posted in the VL2 section about it). I picked my VL4 up today at my hometown music store. I'm looking forward to seeing what it's made out of. I have previously owned the TC Helicon Voice Works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Angel Posted September 29, 2007 Members Share Posted September 29, 2007 Ihoard, Keep us posted regarding your thoughts on the VL4.By the way, I remember reading what MF did to you. Not cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members minstrel29 Posted September 29, 2007 Members Share Posted September 29, 2007 Can't wait to get mine.Just curious...anybody try this with say a flute or a trumpet instead of the vocals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hubcaps Posted September 29, 2007 Members Share Posted September 29, 2007 Hi,My VL4 was delivered this week and I reckon the MusicIQ works very well !!.I wanted to check the harmony using the Eaglets 2 preset so I turned the guitar level down to zero and recorded the VL4 output on my fostex VF160. I found that some guitar was still audible behind the recorded vocal. I first thought that guitar signal was bleeding through from the VL4 guitar input and being subjected the the preset FX but found it was the accoustic sound from my Telecaster bleeding into the mic itself.....Panic overThe VL4 replaces my original 90s Digitech Vocalist Performer and now in-song key changes are no problem.I have to admit that the Pitch Correct feature was a major consideration in the purchase........!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Anderton Posted September 30, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 30, 2007 Originally Posted by terrasini74 i don't know whether or not this has been brought up, but when you choose to harmonize a 3rd above, it sometimes goes up a 4th when using musicIQ. For example, when i sing an F# with a Bmi chord, the unit chooses a B instead of an A. Even when i play a Bmi7, the unit still chooses a B. It's not the end of the world, but an actual 3rd above an F# is very pleasing to the ear even when sung over a Bmi chord. And some songs require it. To overcome this problem, i turn off the MusicIQ and choose a DMa scale for the hamornies. When this is done, it will always choose an actual 3rd above. Unfortunately, if the song requires a key change, then this option isn't practical since you'll have to push the key change button with your finger during the song, unless you play barefoot and can click the key change button with a toe. Does anyone know how we can always get an actual 3rd above when using MusicIQ? Singing an F# over a Bm chord and getting the B rather than the A is reasonably common as it's most often the "correct" harmony. However, I'm a little surprised you get the A when playing Bm7 because I seem to remember trying that and got an A. Perhaps this is a situation where the "memory" works against you instead of in your favor...but also check the levels of the guitar going into the unit, because if the signal is not strong enough, the highest notes (which in this case would define the harmony you want) are the first to get lost as they have the least amount of energy. If that’s not the problem, then you can always use musIQ-Alt mode. This will generally give you the A even over a Bm chord. Incidentally, you don't need to push the button with your hand while you're playing; whether musIQ is on or off can all be stored in the presets (something I use to advantage quite a bit!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.