Yamaha CP50 Stage Piano - Now with Conclusions

[Anderton]

The key to making backing tracks are the 100 drum phrases supplied with the CP50, so you can just call them up for a particular Performance, hit Play, and go. These are short phrases, so you'll now have a chance to hear all of them.

The CP50 has eight phrase categories:

 

• Rock/Pop

 

Ballad

 

R&B/Hip-Hop

 

Dance

 

Classic R&B

 

Country

 

Jazz

 

World

 

I just went into the Song Setting area, hit Play, and changed phrases on-the-fly so you could hear them play as one long file and get a feel for the different phrases. I didn't always switch exactly on the downbeat, but I wasn't going to do them over and over again until I got it right (sorry) - this is a Pro Review, not a recording session for Quincy Jones!

Anyway, these are recorded dry with no processing, EQ, compression, reverb, etc. A little processing can make a big difference, but I figured you'd want to hear the raw sounds so there would be an "even playing field." Ready? Let's listen to the first four categories.

[Anderton]

...and because there can only be five attachements per post, I've divided the eight groups of phrases into two sets of four. So, here are the final four sets of phrases.

[Anderton]

Okay...we've heard some of what Yamaha does with the factory performances, let's see what it's like to put together your own. This will also make a good lead-in the various effects blocks.

Remember that with the CP50, you can have two separate parts. We'll create a performance with nylon guitar in the left split, harp in the right, and an overlap in the middle where they both play.

The procedure isn't complex. You hold down the Left part button, hit Voice, then browse among the various voice options. I figured that looking through the Guitar voices would probably be the best shot for finding a nylon string guitar...indeed it was. Of course, I could cheat and look at the Data List, but part of this is checking on the "intuitive factor."

I then repeated the same procedure to find the harp, which was in the strings section. One data wheel lets you scroll through the voice categories rapidly, while another selects a voice within that category.

Once you have your voices selected, then it's time to go to town with editing. You access the variable parameters with page left/right buttons. Here are some of the options:

 

• Volume

 

Pan

 

Reverb send

 

Transpose (up to plus/minus two octaves)

 

Detune

 

Pitch bend range

 

Alternate tuning (six in addition to equal temperament)

 

Primary (root) key for the alternate tuning

 

Part mono/poly

 

Velocity depth

 

Velocity offset

 

Portamento on/off (yes, it can be polyphonic)

 

Portamento time

 

Portamento mode

 

Filter cutoff

 

Filter resonance

 

Amplitude envelope attack

 

Amplitude envelope decay

 

Amplitude envelope release

 

Hi/Low note limit

 

...and seven different options to enable response to incoming MIDI data, like continuous controllers, sustain, volume, pan, etc.

 

So far, this is all pretty obvious...the effects are less so, not because they're confusing, but because they offer a lot of parameters. This is why we'll deal with them separately.

Meanwhile after setting up the sounds you want, then it's just a matter of doing the usual "hit store - find the memory location to which you want to save - 'Are you sure' - hit enter" type of routine. Of course this is a review, not a manual, so I'm not going to get into EVERY detail, but suffice it to say it wasn't hard to link up a drum backing track, either; and I saved this to an external USB stick so yes, that works too.

Next up, the effects.

[Anderton]

There are three main effects blocks in the CP50: Reverb, Modulation Effects, and Pre-Amp (the latter is only for piano voices). Each has an associated button to enable or bypass the block in real time, but if you push and hold the button (regardless of whether you’re editing a voice or not), you can then edit the various parameters. We’ll start with the reverb, as it’s much simpler than the Modulation Effects.

There are four parameters: Reverb type, reverb time (up to 30 seconds), high pass filter, and high frequency damping. Wish list item: You need to edit the voice to adjust the reverb send amount for that voice; it would be more convenient to have “parallel” reverb send controls for each voice on the main reverb screen, which has space for three parameters, but only edits the Reverb type parameter.

Speaking of reverb type, you have hall, plate, four rooms, and two “stage” settings. The first audio example uses the nylon string+harp performance created in a previous post, with the full 30 seconds of hall so you can hear the quality of the tail. It’s rather ethereal, lacking the mud and periodicity you might expect with an onboard reverb. The guitar has full reverb send, while the harp has just a tiny bit for contrast.

The second audio example is a little less Taj Mahal and a little more practical. Here, the nylon string guitar sound is going through the Stage 1 reverb, with 2.2 seconds of decay. I hit mostly percussive chords to reveal any weaknesses in the reverb, which frankly, don’t really exist...the sound is smooth, and yes, it does kinda sound like you’re on stage with this algorithm.

Overall, although I’m very picky about digital reverb, I’d give the CP50’s very high marks. I don’t know the insides, but I was quite impressed by the MR816 interface’s reverb, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Yamaha is doing variations on their Rev-X engine in the CP50.

[Anderton]

Based on the name, I was expecting this to do amp-related sounds like overdrive, cabinet modeling, and the like. However, that expectation was totally off-base; perhaps a more descriptive name would be “Modeling Block,” because the parameters relate mostly to how various piano sounds are modeled (as mentioned previously, this block relates only to piano-related voices; however, there are amp modeling options in the Mod FX block).

The parameters you can edit are different for different piano voice types. For example, with the acoustic grand sounds, you can adjust damper resonance level and key-off noise level (the sound of the dampers pressing against the strings when you remove your fingers from the keyboard), but of course, damper resonance doesn’t apply to electric pianos. All pianos have decay and release time options.

The electric pianos have parameters like strike position (where the hammer hits the resonators). I particularly like this parameter, as it allows creating a significant change in character; the attached audio example plays the same figure three times, first with the default strike position, then one more toward the top of the resonator (note the smoother sound, with a bit less bite). The third figure plays more toward the resonator’s rear, creating a raspy, distorted sound. There are seven positions total, so that’s quite a bit of latitude.

For the electric pianos you'll also find parameters like bass and treble EQ, tremolo depth and speed, and gain (also remember that some of these parameters are brought out to the main window that shows up when you select a preset, so you can adjust these parameters on-the-fly with the data wheels). The DX-based “FM” pianos are heavy on EQ parameters – low, low-mid, high-mid, and high.

Editing follows the usual CP50 protocol. You hold the pre-amp block button down until it goes into edit mode, then use the page buttons to select different parameters. It’s all very obvious once you get used to the idea that you won’t find the same parameters on all the different piano voices, and while the changes aren’t hugely dramatic (compared to something like the difference between adding a huge hall reverb or not), they can definitely tailor the sound for particular situations.

[Anderton]

This is where you get the real effects action – if you forgot that Yamaha was one of the early multieffects adopters with the SPX90, this will remind you. You can access all effects with any voice, but with the piano and electric piano voices, the page selection process gives priority to modulation effects that Yamaha feels work well with pianos.

Of course, one advantage of the pro review format is we don’t have space issues - so ready or not, here’s the list of available effects:

 

• Three phasers

 

Flanger

 

Auto wah

 

Pedal wah (uses a controller to vary the wah frequency)

 

Chorus

 

“Dimension D”-style chorus

 

Chorus that emulates the sound used in the TX816 tone module, where the eight modules were detuned

 

“Symphonic” chorus

 

Seven different delays (cross delay, tempo delay, independent left/right channels, etc.)

 

Four additional chorus types

 

Three additional flangers

 

Two additional phasers (tempo phaser and envelope-controlled)

 

Autopan

 

Tremolo

 

Rotary speaker

 

Two amp simulators

 

Compressor-distortion effects chain

 

Compressor-distortion-delay effects chain

 

Fast-attack compressor

 

Multiband compressor

 

Lo-fi signal degrader

 

Noise (yes, it adds noise)

 

“Digital turntable” - adds noise, clicks, and pops

 

Ring modulator

 

Ring modulator with envelope-controlled oscillator frequency

 

Dynamic filter that ties to input level

 

“Auto synth” (combines delay and modulation)

 

Isolator – drops out narrow frequency bands (greetings, DJ world!)

 

Six “Tec” effects (more on this later)

 

Five-band EQ

 

Exciter-type sound

 

Vowel formant filtering

 

Pitch shift

 

Early reflections

 

Most of these are relatively familiar effects, so I’m not going to bore you with an audio example of a compressor doing its thing. However, the Tec effects are something else altogether; the attached audio example shows off three of them.

The first one is “Tech Modulation.” Apparently words failed the Yamaha manual writer, as this was simply described as applying “a special type of modulation to the input signal.” As the CP50 doesn’t have an Electro drum pattern, I picked a generic hip-bop beat for the background.

The next effect is the envelope-controlled ring modulation, and the remaining two examples are variations on the “Auto Synth” effect, which is described as using “delay and modulation to make the input signal sound as if it was produced using a synthesizer.” Uh...okay, that’s as good a description as any! That’s why I did the examples, because I couldn’t really describe it either.

[Anderton]

So who cares about a compressor ?

Well actually...this is a bit of a surprise, it's a multiband compressor. It's not set separately per preset, but as a master effect for all performances. As a result, you can tweak it so that the CP50 really "speaks" in a band context.

There are three bands (low, mid, and high), and each has Threshold, Attack, Ratio, and Gain controls. No release?!? Yes there is, it's a master release control for all three bands. Also, there are two crossover controls to set the dividing point between the low/mid bands, and mid/high bands.

You call it up by pressing and holding the Master Compressor button, then using the page buttons to dial in the various parameters (yes, there's a definite pattern to the user interface).

As you've no doubt heard of a compressor, I don't see any real need for an audio example, But, I did see a definite need to mention that it's multiband - that's not something I've seen on a lot of gear, but aftger playing with this one I'm starting to think everything should have a multiband compressor at the output...particularly synthesizers, as you could keep the bass relatively uncompressed and percussive, while compressing the upper mids to make sure resonances don't get out of control.

[RHA]

I have been searching, in vain, all over the internet for a decent review of the CP50.

Thanks, Craig, for such a thorough and comprehensive review of this keyboard. It really has answered a lot of my questions. Keep the great info coming.

Rob

[Anderton]

Well, I'm just about ready to do the conclusions. However, there are a few items of interest that haven't made it into the review, so let's look at a few loose ends.

Recording

The CP50 has a primitive recorder (don't expect a DAW), but you can record what you play as a WAV file to a USB stick, or within the CP50 as a MIDI sequence. These can also be used as backing tracks, although there are some subtle differences compared to the Preset Drum Patterns: These have their own dedicated section and sounds, while User Songs play MIDI data through existing parts, and are thus subject to the voices and effects used in a performance. As expected, the WAV files play back whatever you recorded as audio.

I see the simplicity of the recording process as a plus, because if you get an inspiration while you're playing around, you can be recording with a few button presses. Of course you do have common features like undo, click on/off, time signature, and so on.

MIDI and Master Keyboard

No big surprise here, but there are parameters for enabling/disabling reception of pitch bend, controllers, foot pedal, sustain pedal, and the like.

As a master keyboard, you can go beyond the internal two split points and create up to four zones with independent channel assignments, octave settings, transposition, bank select, program change, pan, volume, pedal transmission, wheel transmission, and footswitch transmission. These can be set independently per zone.

Utilities

These are the boring, but essential, unsung heroes of any electronic musical instrument Here you'll find parameters like:

• Master tuning
• Velocity curve
• The interesting "fixed level" that sends the same velocity no matter how you play (use this for organ patches if you don't want dynamics)
• Flat vs. stretch tuning - very cool
• The option to choose "half-damper" for the sustain pedal if you're using the bundled foot controller
• MIDI receive/transmit channels
• Local control on/off
• Device number setting for sys ex dumps
• Whether to use USB or the physical MIDI connectors for exchanging MIDI messages with a computer or other gear
• Sync (internal, external or "auto" - it's internal unless an external signal appears)
• Bank Select and Program Change management
• Click on/off
• MIDI Clock send on/off
• MIDI System Realtime messages (start, stop, continue) on/off
• Master equalizer parameters (whether the two end bands are shelf or peak, as well as band frequencies)
• Bulk dump
• Factory reset (what I always do before sending back a piece of gear!)
• Startup Performance for when you turn on the CP50
• File management (save, load, delete, rename, etc.)

...and that's pretty much it! Now for the conclusions.

[Anderton]

If I had to characterize the CP50 in one word, it would be "solid." The construction, sounds, features, user interface...all of it is a solid, well-implemented effort.

For a "stage piano," there sure are a lot of sounds but what surprised me most is how editable they are - yet this is only if you want to dig deep. In other words, the parameters are there if desired, but for those who prefer to simply dial up presets and play, you're covered.

There are some features I particularly like. One is bringing out parameters to three large, centrally-located knobs for quick editing. Another is having a USB slot for external storage, as that way you're not dependent on installing RAM for recording WAV files. By choosing EXT, you also have access to as many programs as you want, and you could even have separate sticks for separate gigs (a USB stick for shotgun weddings, for example, and another one for where the bridge and groom actually love each other).

Being mostly a synth kinda guy I was a little put off by not seeing a mod wheel, but it is a stage piano, and most people are going to be using two hands and besides, there's the expression pedal for when you want to do modulation tricks. So really, that's not much of an issue. I do like the weighted keyboard, although there was one strange moment: I was reviewing Vir2's Electri6ity guitar virtual instrument for Keyboard magazine, and take it from someone who doubles on guitar and keys - a weighted keyboard just feels wrong for controlling electric guitar! In all other aspects, though, the keyboard has the right amount of resistance and heft to be a pleasure to play.

As to the operating system, honestly, whenever I dive into a piece of Yamaha gear I usually dislike the OS. Then as I work with it more, I get into the gestalt and it starts falling into place. With the CP50, the big thing for me was when I realized that long presses were the way to go to access alternate functions. Next was realizing the importance of the page buttons. Once I had that down, I was comfortable moving around the operating system. I'll bring up the same riddle I do involving most gear, not just Yamaha:

Q: What's a "power user"?

A: Someone who reads the manual!

I'm also very impressed by the details, like alternate and stretch tunings. You get the feeling that the engineers kept wanting to put in just one more feature, and I don't have a problem with that - the obvious features are obvious to access, the less obvious features, less so.

The one unavoidable issue is the sheer number of sounds. There's no way you're going to memorize them, and there's no browser in the conventional sense. I'd advise printing out the Data List, spending some time with the sounds, checking the ones you like, then saving them to the external memory stick in an order that makes sense to you. The iPod way of doing things is a good analogy: Think of the CP50 as your music library, and the external drive as your playlist.

As I've said before, every Pro Review takes its own path. Interestingly, this one took the path of the instrument: A logical, solid flow, with even some of the same OS experience - not liking certain aspects at first, then having the go on over your head when you go "Hey, this is pretty cool!"

Is the CP50 a spectacular, mind-blowing instrument that does everything except cook breakfast? Not really; they have Motifs for that What the CP50 excels at is delivering solid, reliable, great-sounding stage piano performance - with far more features and sounds than most people would expect - in a stage-worthy, rugged, yet still portable package. I think Yamaha has accurately assessed their market, delivered what it needs (and considerably more), then priced it fairly...and that's why it gets a major thumbs-up.

Finally, I'd like to remind everyone that a Pro Review doesn't end just because I've learned enough about the gear to come to some conclusions; feel free to continue to ask questions, discuss the CP50, and even talk about stage pianos in general.

[runner0382]

Can anyone figure out how to record with a preset drum pattern? In the manual on p.42, it doesn't look like you can.

I'm surprised (but not that surprised since it's a Stage Piano) that those could only be used as a backing track.

Is there maybe a way to piece a recording internally or to .wav together that would have a split track with sounds + a backing track from the internal ones? It's nice for live performance, but I'm trying to make some files to upload to a website.

If I had to, I could record live using a digital recorder next to my amp but that's just a dumb way to do it...

[Anderton]

AFAIK, when you go into record, the backing track stops playing. Maybe someone from Yamaha either a) knows more about the CP50 recording process than I do, or b) has a workaround?

[Phil Clendeninn]

The Preset Drum Phrases are not output as MIDI data, and therefore do not record to the CP User Song, only your keyboard performance is recorded as MIDI data.

If you wish to record using the Preset Drum Phrases, they are available when you record to a USB drive connected to the CP's "TO DEVICE" port. The Preset Drum Phrases will be recorded as audio along with your keyboard performance. The data is written as a 16-bit/44.1kHz stereo .wav file.

Hope that helps

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Phil Clendeninn

The Preset Drum Phrases are not output as MIDI data, and therefore do not record to the CP User Song, only your keyboard performance is recorded as MIDI data.

If you wish to record using the Preset Drum Phrases, they are available when you record to a USB drive connected to the CP's "TO DEVICE" port. The Preset Drum Phrases will be recorded as audio along with your keyboard performance. The data is written as a 16-bit/44.1kHz stereo .wav file.

Hope that helps

 

Very much so! Thanks Phil, and thanks for stopping by.

Did I miss anything in the review? I assume you know the CP50 better than anyone on the planet...

BTW Motif XF is real nice. Good job.

[SingMeToSleep]

How do you clean this thing?! I tried to wipe off a little smudge mark with a soft cloth and a dab of water, and when it dried I had an even bigger smudge mark!

[Anderton]

I know what you mean, that black surface tends to accentuate dust and such. Anyone have any cleaning tips? Probably some kind of wipe used for monitors would...can't try it out myself, the CP50 is packed up and ready to return to Yamaha. But, I don't think water is the answer. Good question, though

[Randyman]

Craig,

Thanks once again for a solid Pro Review.

Question about the recording function. I once saw someone playing a Kawai DP, and with the built-in recording function he was able to play an entire song, and with the touch of 1 button, it played back. As a result, with no interruption of the sound, he was then able to play along with what he'd already played. A simple looper for a keyboard! Brilliant and very useful.

Does the recorder on the CP-50 have that capability?

[Anderton]

Well it's not a looper in the conventional sense, but you can play, record what you're playing, then play back. You can play over that, but I don't recall if that's only when you record as a WAV file, or when you do MIDI too...unfortunately I've already sent the unit back so I can't verify.

[Jools1956]

Dear sir

I am a newbie to this site, can I start by congratulating you and those who have replied to threads reference Yamaha CP 50. It all makes very interesting reading, it also hones the brain to search out those questions we should of asked at the music store before our wallets accidentally fell open,then carr-ching and minutes later we are walking out of the store with our new purchase, the brand new shiny keyboards with your name on it?

Do you ever ask yourself? It's annoying those smug guys demo your keyboard in the store, just how do they flip their fingers effortlessly up and down those keys, it make your keyboard sound like a top of the range Steinway? Of course, you can never get it sounding like that when you get it out of the box (the sound you produce sound more like a lifeless children's toy piano? with a two and half octave range?)

I am a self taught musician, I learned the bass and electric guitars playing along a variety music genres.

I have been playing seriously for the past four years.

I can play with or without music. I love a variety of music,

I've played in Country/Folk band (Jigs and Reels), a cabaret band and then a lively Rock and Roll covers band.

I purchased my first weighted (which took some getting used to) about 16 month ago

Korg PA 588, I bought it because of the variety of tones the Piano sounds and the capability of layering the sound and splitting the keyboard Bass Cymbal left. Piano strings in the right. two sequencers built in, It had enough bells and whistles to keep me occupied for a moment or two.

It's got a large screen, great samples and tonal eq and great editing facilities.

The down side is, she's a big old girl, a whisker under 26 Kg, it's a big old beast once she's safely locked in her case for the night.

I 'm looking for a lighter model maybe something out of the Yamaha range

The reviews I've read are good bad and mixed,

However I would asked those more experienced than myself for some sound advice.

The Yamaha CP 50-CP5 series looks like a good replacement and more portable for live gigs? The alternative would be Roland's RD 300 NX range? I believe it's available in the UK about March April 2011?

The most import thing is the sound then the touch/sensitivity and price?

It must have a convincing Grand Piano and Electric Piano sound.

An Accordion sound for Jigs and Reels and Brass for those solos.

String pads must full and enriching.

The organ sounds I use are 1960's Hammond Drawbar B3 and the VOX contintal

I like playing a DP with weighted keys. But it has to be portable, (under 26 kg) easy to select the sounds in a live situation. we don't have time to wait for the keyboard player to go through his routine of menu selections. this only gives the drummer more time to do another session/solo or build another shed.

meanwhile I'm looking through that rare thing called a users manual.

Seriously though I would appreciate some help on making the right choice.

Yamaha verses Roland thank you to anyone who can advise me.

Kind regards Julian Bishop

[crazytexan]

I don't like wall-warts either, but in the event of a power supply failure, would you rather buy a new wall wart or send your keyboard in to the shop? (I'm a glass half-full guy, I guess.)

[crazytexan]

Thank God for your review, Craig!! I just got a CP50 and the Reference Manual AND Owner's Manual are almost useless. I must have spent a couple of hours just trying to figure out how to create a split before I found this post. Neither manual explains it!! I did manage to figure out how to play my backing trax via USB, which is a handy feature.

I'm just in shock that the instrument could be so difficult to get used to. (But I haven't owned a Yamaha since having a DX7...)

[Trisha-Anne]

Hello

I'm a newbie to this site. My other half and I just purchased a Yamaha CP50, and we can't seem to work out how to download a file from a USB into the keyboard. Neither of us has used an electronic keyboard before, so we need a bit of babying, if anyone is able to help :-) I think we have actually gotten the file (a midi file) onto the keyboard, but if we have we can't find it to get it to play.

Please help!

Thanks all

Trish

[Johnny-Boy]

May find some answers here as well: http://www.keyboardforums.com/

Good luck, John

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Trisha-Anne

Hello

I'm a newbie to this site. My other half and I just purchased a Yamaha CP50, and we can't seem to work out how to download a file from a USB into the keyboard. Neither of us has used an electronic keyboard before, so we need a bit of babying, if anyone is able to help :-) I think we have actually gotten the file (a midi file) onto the keyboard, but if we have we can't find it to get it to play.

Please help!

Thanks all

Trish

 

Sorry I can't help, but I returned the keyboard to Yamaha a long time ago...

[MargeHowel]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

Seems kind of silly to do a Pro Review of a stage piano, right? So it makes piano sounds. Does the sustain pedal work? Yes? Then, end of story.

 

doesn't seem silly at all.

Guitar review : volume knob words, makes guitar sounds.

it's guitaritis ... I've seen guitar players list instruments like (I'm making up the specs - they are probably wrong)

Instruments :

1987 MIJ strat

gotoh tuners

Bill Lawrence L-250 in the bridge, coil tapped

Lace sensor in the bridge and middle

middle p/u with phase switch

compound radius warmoth neck with jumbo frets

graphite nut

and

1967 Fender Princeton Reverb

with Pince o Wails mod

Goove tubes and Yellow jacket recto

and

a piano