Phonic Firefly 808 Universal Interface - Now with Conclusions

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by Digi2010

The USB2.0 implementation needs ca. 10% more CPU to handle the framing and deframing of the USB packets.

 

Thanks for confirming what I thought - USB does hit the CPU harder than FireWire. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that it functions to full spec at 96kHz is more than good enough. I really can't see using the ultra-high sample rates for anything other than archiving, and as pointed out earlier, as 6 channels can handle 5.1 surround I don't see an issue there, either.

[TuMadre]

Some great info in this thread already Craig. I've been a fan of Phonic for over 15 years. Our primary live board, our practice console and backup mixer are all Phonic made - and have never given us any problems (the backup mixer is the first mixer I ever owned - it's well over 15 years old). We use a Helix 24FW MkII and first generation Helix FW18 on a weekly basis. All of our demos have been recorded on one or the other, using Reaper as our DAW s/w. It has been a very cost-effective and professionally satisfying solution to our recording demands.

We are currently eyeing one of the new Phonic Summit digital boards, but would love to see an in-depth review first. If the Phonic folks could point to a good third party review, I'd sure appreciate it.

[Anderton]

I actually have a Phonic Helix here for evaluation (they changed the name from Summit to avoid any confusion with Summit Audio). I'm not sure if I'll be doing a pro review on it but there have been discussions. I think it would make a great subject for a Pro Review, given the onboard processing and the like. Actually I think it's turned out that the Firefly 808 has made a good subject for a Pro Review, given the depth.

I used a Panasonic DA7 for years - still have it - always thought it was a great mixer, so that would be my standard of comparison to the Phonic mixer. I believe they have some updates coming soon (or might be available already - I need to check).

As to Phonic in general, I know what you mean First there was the PAA6, and I thought that was pretty cool. Then the mixer, which also impressed me. And now the 808, which is definitely an overachiever. If nothing else, this Pro Review has gotten me to pay a lot more attention to what they're doing - and there are still more things in the 808 we need to cover.

Thanks for chiming in!

[tommyc]

Originally Posted by Anderton

I think Tommyc is going to be pretty happy with his new toy

So it seems! Installation was quick and easy. And with everything running the first thing i tried was to open up Record and load one of the demos (The Baguettes - We Get it On) and pressed play, just using the default settings for the Firefly and no problem, it played without any errors.

So then I started to try some different settings for the buffers to see when it would start to get drop outs.

On my computer (Pc with Core2Duo @2.5GHz and 2GB RAM) I managed to play the demo song with a total latency of 13 ms without any glitches, and there is a lot of things going on in that song!

So for the kind of songs I'm recording, around 16-20 tracks of audio and 1 or 2 midi tracks for synth/organ, it seems possible to get the latency much lower without any problems.

I'm more then happy so far!

[U&I]

I am curious to know - the Australian dollar is now at around 96cents USD, so why in the hell do these retail for $998 too $1150 Australian ?

Ditto the Line 6UX8 My other choice for Record/Reason which retails here for over a 1K.

[caitlyntw]

Phonic would love to see a pro review on our digital mixer too, Craig This product just started shipping a month ago and reviews in print take a while, so an online review would be the fastest way for users to get unbiased assessment of the product. There are reviews in a handful of German magazines and English magazines to follow. Here's a link to the German pre-publication PDFs that we obtained: https://phonic.box.net/shared/iz5tv1q17q

Development of Phonic's digital mixer didn't stop when we shipped the products. We're continuously improving the product, updating firmware and adding features. So Phonic is looking forward to the pro review, user comments, feedback, good or bad.

[U&I]

Originally Posted by caitlyntw

Phonic would love to see a pro review on our digital mixer too, Craig This product just started shipping a month ago and reviews in print take a while, so an online review would be the fastest way for users to get unbiased assessment of the product. There are reviews in a handful of German magazines and English magazines to follow. Here's a link to the German pre-publication PDFs that we obtained: https://phonic.box.net/shared/iz5tv1q17q

Development of Phonic's digital mixer didn't stop when we shipped the products. We're continuously improving the product, updating firmware and adding features. So Phonic is looking forward to the pro review, user comments, feedback, good or bad.

Caitluntw - do you have any reason for the disparity in retail prices between both countries on this device ? I keep getting stupid comments from local distributors about the import tax on such products into Australia.
Only your company would know what the wholesale shipping costs where to your Australian distributor ( I can't get that information ) but there seems to be a massive profit margin mark up of over 100% somewhere in the supply chain.
I never received a viable arguement from Yamaha on this either. I can for example fly return to LA, buy a Motif XS, spend a week, come back and still have money left in the jar after a purchase. Which in all honesty is utterly ridiculous.
I purchased an Electribe ESX & EMX in Canada last year for $800 AUD the pair and brought them back into the country with no duties tax what so ever seeing as they where for personal use and had receipts to prove the purchase was under $900AUD and they retail/sell for over 1K per unit here.
That said I can purchase one from overseas, get it shipped here and bar shipping + GST come in at over $400 less than any retailer can sell it for in this country. Actually I stand corrected I can get it here including the GST and shipping for around $400 less than the retail price in Australia.
Doesn't bode well for sales of your products in our market no matter how good they are (which holds true of other manufacturers as well I might add).
Makes absolutely no sense to me and just smacks of false economy in a global market but I'll save that debate for elsewhere right about now.
Sorry if this is the wrong forum to pose such questions but a straight answer from someone within a company would actually be appreciated for once.

Having worked as an Assistant Manager of Commercial Client Operations for a large US firm based in Australia before the economic collapse, I am fully aware of how important transparency of business and honesty in transaction is to the end of the supply chain ie: your clients and customers.
Yet we the end user / consumer never seem to get solid answers to this no matter how politely the issue is raised.
I'll let Craig get back to the excellent review none the less.
It looks like and indeed sounds like an excellent product that is competitively priced in the market place elsewhere.
Sadly, that doesn't hold true here.

Just to give you an idea -
Protools Mbox 2 ProFactory - $970.94
Echo AudioFire Pre8 - $1189.15
M Audio Profire 2626 - $907.30
Motu 828 Mk2 - $1274.00
Motu Ultralite Mk3 - $1189.15
Presonus Firestudio - $880.62
Protools MBox Pro - $849.15
Phonic Firefly 808 - $934 (retail price 1000 dollars and currently marked as "on sale"). Currently $499 @ Musicians Friend Dot Com = $514 AUD

All prices in AUD.

I am more than happy to provide further links to other retailers here and give you a solid example of retail price (actual sale price) if needs be.
My point being is that Craig maintains that this is a premium device at an incredible price which may sound like great product advertising for your company but the reality is, the situation doesn't translate to well in a real word scenario over here.

It feels like the rest of us subsidize and offset the cheaper sales costs to larger global markets so that your company (or others) can maximize per unit sales in broader markets elsewhere. Which would be moderately fine if there was any modicum of transparency in the process. Unfortunately there isn't.

This is part of the reason why I purchase software direct from the said company, use Mac computers as there is price parity on the global exchange rate irrespective of geographical location and currently use a Soundcraft desk with an Apogee Duet (price parity once again).

I'd seriously prefer a decent Audio interface that would enable me to dispense with the mixing desk and preferably without the hassle of international shipping and wondering if the package is going to arrive at my door in one piece. Most Nationally recognized warranties are rendered void here if you purchase from overseas and they need to be shipped back if they need repair or turn up damaged.

Please note that this is not in anyway intended as a slur on Phonic. Novation, M Audio, Yamaha, Korg, Roland etc are all far more guilty of such practices than I'd like to mention.

I appreciate what your company is trying to do and would indeed put my money where my mouth is could I get one at a price point equivalent to US dollars with full Australian warranty and repair support.

As it stands, and at the current price point for a few hundred quid extra I would be inclined to go for the Motu (just to give you an idea of where I am coming from).....don't know how constructive I've been but thank you for your time.


Edit think I may just wait till I am in Canada next year again and order one over the net shipped to Toronto from there.

[caitlyntw]

Hello U&I,
I think a whole new, LONG thread could be started on the topic of price disparity between the US and the rest of the world. It is frustrating and you're not the only one. There are plenty of international users who purchase from US internet merchant or fly to the US to buy products, which in turn creates a problem for foreign distributors who eventually will need to support and service the products they didn't sell. (Or sometimes refuse to service products not purchased locally and get the end users furious at both the brand and the distributor.)

The business side of our industry has changed a lot. Retailers, manufacturers and distributor are all still adjusting. Some still insist on the margins of yesterday. Also smaller foreign distributors don't have the benefit of high volume to lower their overhead. US, being still the largest economy, lures manufacturers to sometimes give preferential pricing. It all comes down to the economics. (I'm in no position to comment on other manufacturers, distributors or retailers.)

Phonic's own export pricing is very fair and transparent. We do try to encourage our distributors to avoid inflating prices to end users.

Good news is I spoke with our new Australian distributor, CMI Music & Audio, and they informed me the Firefly 808 Universal is now around 640 AUD. That's a big drop from the 1000 you were previously quoted!

[U&I]

I just wanted to take the time to formally thank you for a reply.
This is a first, or a dare I say a first that has done so honestly.
It says a lot about your companies business ethos finding the time to do so.
If I can get one for that sort of price I think it's high time I said farewell to the Apogee Duet and Soundcraft mixer (sales of which will easily cover the asking price for the Firefly 808).
Once again kudos to you for the response.
It is very much appreciated and the sort of thing I'd like to see more of from other manufacturers.
All the best with your new product line and these firewire interfaces.
Regards
U&I



PS: Also a big thanks too Craig for an excellent review, as this would have been an item I would have overlooked in my search for a more complete audio interface and recording rig .

[dmalerba]

Originally Posted by Anderton

Well thank you for doing some research for me

I assumed that USB would not deliver the same throughput as FireWire, simply because higher throughput is always touted as one of FireWire's advantages. I just finished checking out a Focusrite Saffire USB 6 and a Saffire Pro 14 (which is FireWire). The Pro 14 had no problem doing 96kHZ with 24 bits whereas the USB 6 doesn't go above 48kHz nor does Focusrite represent that it does. In other respects, the interfaces are rather similar.

I doubt this is simply a firmware issue. When discussing this with People Who Know More than I Do, they say that USB requires significantly more "housekeeping" from the CPU because the FireWire interface's self-contained hardware takes of its own housekeeping. As a result, there's a certain amount of overhead with USB that is unavoidable. They also say that USB 3.0 is Da Bomb and will leave both USB 2.0 and FireWire in the dust...we'll see. I think it is entirely possible that Phonic is bumping up against the limits of the USB 2.0 spec, and that there is little they can do about that (other than clarify any limitations in their marketing).

From a practical standpoint, it seems performance is identical for USB and FireWire up to 96kHz, and that any limitations become apparent only at 176.4 and 192kHz. However, notwithstanding that a web site should contain complete and accurate information, I wonder how much of an issue this is in the real world. If 192kHz is used primary for archiving, then two ins would work for stereo, and six ins for 5.1, and the 808 can handle this with USB. I have had some problems with plug-ins even at 96kHz, and even though I have an eight-core machine, I don't think it could do too many tracks, virtual instruments, effects etc. at 192kHz.

I will do some testing at 96kHz as I do recording at that sample rate for most classical projects, but honestly, I have never recorded at 192kHz in my studio so I don't really have any standard of comparison for the 808.

Just out of curiosity, as you seem to be into the 192kHz thing...how/why do you use 192kHz, and do you hear any audible differences compared to 96kHz?

I agree with you about USB limitations in performance vs firewire, however I would have liked to have seen 6 Analog Input channels, 2 Analog Output Channels, SP/DIF IN and Out support at high speeds (176.4 and 192 Khz) in that way could record 6 channels in and mix down to 2 channel out, and include SP/DIF input sources, output monitoring or playback. This to me seems to be very real world and what the unit should have been capable of doing out of the box. What do you think?

6 analog in and 6 analog out with support with Midi in and out seems not only limited in the real world but not capable of handling the most realistic scenario if USB is your only option and F/W is not available.

These are firmware issues and not driver issues.

High speed playback is necessary to include Hi-Res recording from some very High end sources and should you need to include High End SP/DIF sources and playback, however, you are excluded from this capability in the way the FireFly 808 universal is configured for High Speed USB support. As is said in previous note F/W support is right on the mark, USB support for 96Khz or lower along with the focus of your review.

With respect to accuracy of the web site and product literature this is a key component to a good product along with support contact. Two points I made clear that are falling short. Phonic distributors are having problems getting correct information to support the sale of Firefly 808 Universal. The 800 number for Phonic USA is always busy and support does not answer emails in a timely fashion or answer the the questions asked. Hence why I commented on the issue and please note that I have only Focused on my direct experience with Firefly 808 Universal issues and Phonic support since I purchased the unit 3 weeks ago.

Regards,
Dave

[Digi2010]

Hi Dave

Thanks for your valuable input.

Investing in a device that contains both of the most popular audio interfaces means an investment in the future and lots of flexibility. Whether you are recording or running virtual instruments, the Firefly 808 Universal is a great solution for songwriters to record/dub guitars, keyboards, vocals and more to the dedicated computer.

- USB2.0 and IEEE1394 in same firmware
- New universal mixer panel for all USB and Firewire Devices (Windows)
- WDM/ASIO drivers for XP/Vista/Windows 7 (32/64) available
- Improved system stability and performance boost through streamlined firmware

Currently, you could record up to 6 channels in and mix down to 6 channels at USB High-speed mode, also include stereo output monitoring. In addition, the main out section is created by the analog hardware mixer. We have already added information to let users know that SPDIF do not suppport up to 192kHZ in USB 2.0 mode on our website.

To add 192 kHz digital I/O support, it would be another, totally new product, which includes an optical TOSLINK I/O, usable as ADAT port with SMUX4 support or SPDIF optical at up to 192 kHz. However, these features only useful for DVD-Audio authoring or high-resolution archiving.

If getting 192kHZ on sPDIF is critical to you, below are some products that does this. For example, RME's Babyface is a 12 In/10 Out USB 2.0 192kHz interface. ($749) http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php#5

Another example, is Apogee's Symphony I/O USB 2.0 interface (Staring from $3690) http://www.apogeedigital.com/product...rear-panel.php

Phonic is now distributed by U.S. Music Corp. Please call 800-877-6863. The 800 number you have for Phonic USA is no longer in service. USM's address is 444 E. Courtland St., Mundelein, IL 60060.

[Anderton]

Well frankly...I find it impressive that Digi2010, who is from Phonic, is recommending other products for a user's particular needs. I understand that the 808 "is what it is," and is designed for a particular scenario at a particular price point. For someone like me, who works primarily at 44.1 through 96kHz, the high-speed issues aren't really important (although I will test capabilities at these rates, assuming everything else I have can handle them) and I would not want to pay the extra required to enhance the high-speed capabilities.

I also appreciate that Phonic has made changes to their web site due to the feedback they're receiving here. It's okay for a company to make a mistake; it's not okay to leave misinformation uncorrected, so I'm glad Phonic is on the case.

Also, I concur with U&I that Caitlyn replying directly to his request for info on the Mysteries of Distribution and Pricing is appreciated. I have to add that "behind the scenes," whenever I've dealt with her she's been totally straight, even being willing to tell me a rough idea of sales figures and such (in confidence, of course, but something few companies do).

Here's my take on the situation, and this addresses Dave's concern. My take is that Phonic is "on the move." They have a new distributor, they're reaching out through this Pro Review, and are not only paying attention to feedback - but want to do a Pro Review on their mixer specifically to get user feedback. (That's smart, actually, and they're not the first company who wanted a Pro Review not to sell units but as a sort of focus group.)

I believe that comments in this thread, whether positive or negative, are being scrutinized by Phonic. I've noticed no defensiveness in response to criticisms, which is also interesting because I think they sincerely want to know of any problems so they can be fixed.

None of this was "on my radar" before I started this review; it was just another product to take apart . But as I've continued this review, and seen how the company interacts with me and the users, I have to say I'm impressed with more than the product.

[Anderton]

Given that there's some interest in higher sample rates, I thought I'd check out what happens at 96kHz. I set up PreSonus's Studio One Pro (the subject of a parallel Pro Review) and first, loaded up the DAW with tracks and played them back through the various Firefly 808 outputs. As expected, it all worked fine; the main thing I was curious about wasn't so much the Firefly performance, but whether Studio One Pro's plug-ins worked well at 96kHz, and also, whether it had the same speedy feel that it does at lower sample rates. It passed with flying colors for both tests.

For the 808, I mostly wanted to test simultaneous recording and playback on all available I/O. I created enough inputs to handle the 8 analog ins as well as SPDIF. I didn't bother with the ADAT in; I felt 10 channels was enough, as I haven't used ADAT in SMUX mode and don't have any suitable signal sources - besides, I felt any differences between 10 and 12 channels would be minimal (with SMUX, you only get four channels of ADAT instead of 8).

I then enabled record for all 10 channels, set up the necessary 10 output channels, and let 'er rip. The 808 had no problem recording and playing back 10 discrete channels using USB 2.0 at 96kHz.

The only drama happened when I first set things up; the 808 mixer applet had the crossfader set to halfway between monitoring the input and playback from the computer, leading to a groovy metallic feedback sound - fun for special effects, not fun for recording. Moving the slider to PC solved the problem, but brought up an annoyance of the mixer applet: I wish the crossfader settings would be persistent, and remain as set when you open and close the mixer app until changed.

[Anderton]

I'm running out of things to try in order to break the 808...

I checked it out with 64-bit Vista with both Sonar 8.5 and Studio One Pro, and it worked like a champ with one exception: Channels 1 and 2 couldn't take advantage of direct monitoring with the Phonic mixer applet. All the other channels worked fine, so I asked Phonic whether this is a bug or pilot error. I'm sure Grant will come in here and let us know what's going on.

I also thought for the sake of completeness I should just make sure FireWire works...and yes, it does.

[Anderton]

With any piece of gear, it's one thing to test for specific features and functions, and another to use it in day-to-day work. So, for the past few weeks I've used the 808 with a variety of programs, on both 32-bit and 64-bit platforms, to see if there were any features or flaws I missed that would show up only under fairly consistent use.

Actually, there were neither, aside from the channel 1 and 2 direct monitoring issue with 64-bit Vista mentioned above. About the only additional negative thing I could say is that if you overload an input, the distortion sounds pretty nasty. So don't overload an input! You shouldn't be overloading inputs anyway.

Maybe the ultimate compliment I can give the 808 is that it's boring: It just sits there and does its thing. I like boring interfaces - the last thing I want to do during the course of a session is figure out why an interface isn't working.

Then again, the price point is pretty exciting considering what you get, and certainly, if you open it up there's some pretty cool circuit board stuff going on to appeal to your inner geek (well, at least it appealed to mine). And I notice that the fellow in this thread who bought an 808 based on this review never came back to tell us he had any problems, so I'm going to assume he's too busy making music to participate further

As I mentioned at the beginning, Phonic really wasn't too much on my radar when this review started, but it sure is now. It's not just about the product; it's also about Grant from Phonic giving helpful answers and being attentive to the thread, and Caitlyn's forthright answers to questions that many people from other companies would decline to comment upon. This is important because I look for consistency in companies. If they were to be slow in responding here, they might be slow in responding if you were having a problem. But as a company, Phonic seems genuinely interested in your feedback, and they certainly handled this review well.

And frankly, it blew my mind that when one person said the 808 wouldn't meet his needs because it lacked certain features, a Phonic company representative suggested two suitable products made by competing companies, and even included links. How often do you see that?!? That kind of helpful attitude deserves major props as far as I'm concerned.

So what's the bottom line? Well, you've already seen the specs in the earlier screen shots, so there's not much to add to that. And everything has worked as expected - this has been a drama-free interface.

There are a lot of audio interfaces out there; it's a crowded market. But, Phonic has taken a few different tacks - USB/FireWire, sample rates up to 192kHz, inserts on the first two channels, 32- and 64-bit drivers, individually switchable phantom power and mic pres on each channel (a rarity with most interfaces in this price ranbe), above-average metering, and drivers that worked solidly for me. Yet, all of this is at a much lower price than I would have expected for this feature set.

So what we have is essentially a cost-effective overachiever. It may be more than some people need - quite a few solo artists only need something with a few inputs - but given the price, I think it would make sense for said solo artists to go ahead and get the extra inputs anyway for two reasons: They might want to do something like mic a drum set or background singers, or just leave all their gear "normalized" into the various ins - a couple mics patched into inputs 1 and 2, drum machine into 3/4, guitar into 5, bass into 6, keyboard into 7/8 and do "virtual re-patching" by simply enabling suitable inputs in your DAW.

Phonic has done a really good job with the Firefly 808, and it's been a great subject for a Pro Review (particularly because I didn't have to spend time figuring out something that didn't work!). But, let me remind you that just because I've come to these conclusions doesn't mean the review is over; feel free to ask any additional questions, or make any additional comments. Giving conclusions simply means that I feel I know the unit well enough, and have abused it - uh, I mean, used it - enough to be able to state some definite conclusions. And of course, if I get any new insights through the course of using it, I'll post those observations here.

Oh, and I also have some breaking news: Apparently Phonic was pleased enough with the Pro Review process that they've signed up for one on their new digital mixer, which I'll be start as soon as I've finished editing AES videos. As someone who still loves my aging Panasonic DA7 but lives in fear that someday it will die and I won't be able to get it fixed, I'm very interested to check out the Phonic mixer in depth...it's a perfect subject for a Pro Review.

[grant_phonic]

Originally Posted by Anderton

I checked it out with 64-bit Vista with both Sonar 8.5 and Studio One Pro, and it worked like a champ with one exception: Channels 1 and 2 couldn't take advantage of direct monitoring with the Phonic mixer applet. All the other channels worked fine, so I asked Phonic whether this is a bug or pilot error. I'm sure Grant will come in here and let us know what's going on.

I just spoke with Digi2010 (Larry) and he's just tested an 808 Universal with the latest firmware update and our 64-bit Windows Vista and 7 machines. He's suggested the firmware update, if you haven't gotten around to it already. That can be downloaded here (be sure to read the instructions. Though that's a given with firmware updates, I guess. The most important thing is that you establish a connection properly between the computer/driver and the unit before installing the new firmware).

We typically only suggest the firmware update for people who want to use the USB connection on a Mac, but this seems to be a whole other advantage to it (okay, not so much an advantage as something it should have done in the first place). At least this is the only variable that would explain the issue. After you've completed the firmware update, the only driver that will work is the latest 5.14 for the Firefly 808 Universal (both USB and FireWire).

[U&I]

Originally Posted by caitlyntw

Hello U&I,
I think a whole new, LONG thread could be started on the topic of price disparity between the US and the rest of the world. It is frustrating and you're not the only one. There are plenty of international users who purchase from US internet merchant or fly to the US to buy products, which in turn creates a problem for foreign distributors who eventually will need to support and service the products they didn't sell. (Or sometimes refuse to service products not purchased locally and get the end users furious at both the brand and the distributor.)

The business side of our industry has changed a lot. Retailers, manufacturers and distributor are all still adjusting. Some still insist on the margins of yesterday. Also smaller foreign distributors don't have the benefit of high volume to lower their overhead. US, being still the largest economy, lures manufacturers to sometimes give preferential pricing. It all comes down to the economics. (I'm in no position to comment on other manufacturers, distributors or retailers.)

Phonic's own export pricing is very fair and transparent. We do try to encourage our distributors to avoid inflating prices to end users.

Good news is I spoke with our new Australian distributor, CMI Music & Audio, and they informed me the Firefly 808 Universal is now around 640 AUD. That's a big drop from the 1000 you were previously quoted!

Still waiting on a reply from CMI Audio - I found one retailer with a sale price of $955 AUD and two other retailers selling this for $1100, so I do genuinely appreciate your sentiment and efforts but it's been a good month since this was posted and I have seen no change in pricing anywhere.

[tommyc]

 

Originally Posted by Anderton

And I notice that the fellow in this thread who bought an 808 based on this review never came back to tell us he had any problems, so I'm going to assume he's too busy making music to participate further

 

Well you're right about that, so far I havn't had any problems at all. It just works. The only thing I wish for is that the mixer-app would remember the settings when it is closed and opened again, but that is a minor complaint. So fram my point of view it really have been a plug and play experience, and that is a thing that is quite rare!

[Anderton]

 

Originally Posted by tommyc

Well you're right about that, so far I havn't had any problems at all. It just works. The only thing I wish for is that the mixer-app would remember the settings when it is closed and opened again, but that is a minor complaint. So fram my point of view it really have been a plug and play experience, and that is a thing that is quite rare!

 

Thanks for the update! Seems you've pretty much had the same experience I have.

[grant_phonic]

 

Originally Posted by U&I

Still waiting on a reply from CMI Audio - I found one retailer with a sale price of $955 AUD and two other retailers selling this for $1100, so I do genuinely appreciate your sentiment and efforts but it's been a good month since this was posted and I have seen no change in pricing anywhere.

 

Hi U&I, where are you located? I can ask CMI to help us find you a dealer in your general area (Same State at least. If you're somewhere like Wagga Wagga, I can't say for sure how close they'd be...). Talking to CMI, the RRP is currently $649 (so it'd be available for lower than that at least). Perhaps it's taking some dealers time to follow suit, or perhaps they've imported the units themselves from the States. Will try and sort this out though.

[U&I]

Originally Posted by grant_phonic

Hi U&I, where are you located? I can ask CMI to help us find you a dealer in your general area (Same State at least. If you're somewhere like Wagga Wagga, I can't say for sure how close they'd be...). Talking to CMI, the RRP is currently $649 (so it'd be available for lower than that at least). Perhaps it's taking some dealers time to follow suit, or perhaps they've imported the units themselves from the States. Will try and sort this out though.

Hi Grant,
I've received a letter/email from CMI and just waiting on a reply for a retailer in my State. Oddly enough the day I fired off an email to CMI two interstate retailers changed their retail advertised price (pleased to see).
Just waiting to see on where I can get one a bit closer to home in Victoria/Melbourne.
Cheers
U&I

[danvranic]

Wait a sec, so at what setting can this thing record 8 channels over USB?

and, since i am a drummer who doesnt know too much yet, i have a round of questions.

1. Can I monitor myself and play with no delay or latency, so i can hear myself and record myself at the same time.

2. I know Phonic also makes the Helix Board Universal 18, and that does essentially the same thing as this one. would that be a better alternative for me as a drummer so i can hear my own mix??

[Anderton]

Originally Posted by danvranic

Wait a sec, so at what setting can this thing record 8 channels over USB?

I tested it at 96kHz and it worked fine.

1. Can I monitor myself and play with no delay or latency, so i can hear myself and record myself at the same time.

There is a mixer applet so you can hear what's going into the inputs with no latency, as if you were plugged into a mixer. So, if you play along with what you hear coming back from the computer, you'll hear yourself with no delay.

However, if you play through plug-ins and monitor your playing from the computer's output, latency is unavoidable.

2. I know Phonic also makes the Helix Board Universal 18, and that does essentially the same thing as this one. would that be a better alternative for me as a drummer so i can hear my own mix??

For what you're doing, a FireWire or USB mixer interface might be ideal because you can mix all those inputs coming into the computer from a drum kit. I believe there's a price differential, but not sure if it's significant for you or not.

Hope this helps...welcome aboard!

[danvranic]

Originally Posted by Anderton

I tested it at 96kHz and it worked fine.



There is a mixer applet so you can hear what's going into the inputs with no latency, as if you were plugged into a mixer. So, if you play along with what you hear coming back from the computer, you'll hear yourself with no delay.

However, if you play through plug-ins and monitor your playing from the computer's output, latency is unavoidable.



For what you're doing, a FireWire or USB mixer interface might be ideal because you can mix all those inputs coming into the computer from a drum kit. I believe there's a price differential, but not sure if it's significant for you or not.

Hope this helps...welcome aboard!

The price is that the mixer is 40$ cheaper. But if i can monitor myself, it shouldnt matter for me.

There is a mixer applet so you can hear what's going into the inputs with no latency, as if you were plugged into a mixer. So, if you play along with what you hear coming back from the computer, you'll hear yourself with no delay.

Im really new to this kind of thinking, so can you explain this a little more?

[danvranic]

Originally Posted by danvranic

The price is that the mixer is 40$ cheaper. But if i can monitor myself, it shouldnt matter for me.



Im really new to this kind of thinking, so can you explain this a little more?

Because I read the manual of the thing, and it seems that it talks quite a bit more about Firewire than USB 2.0 almost like they dont support it.

So can you confirm that this machine works properly and can fully do 8 tracks, at 96khz?