Virus C: basic programming - HELP!!!

[SweetAlien]

Can anyone tell me where are the goddamn {censored}ing envelope sections in Virus C??? :mad: :mad: I'm trying to edit filter and amp envelopes and can't find the frigging values section, I can only edit time of A D S and R by twisting knobs, but not a value!!! The manual stinks!!!

[roblogic]

There's no menu for the ENVs - you just enter the values with the knobs. The sustain time parameter is in the main edit menu.

[Yoozer]

Poor sap, the whole Roland JV/XP envelope T1-L1-T2 and-so-on nightmare must've really traumatized you..

[Deckard]

Virus C

[mildbill]

the C is great, but the manual for it is about the worst i've seen.

 

 

 

 

sweetalien: knobs are your friends - they were put there to make things easier for you.

 

anything you can do directly with a knob gives you real-time control over it while you're playing, and the knobs send out cc's that can be recorded into a sequencer.

 

there's so much depth to the virus that to give everything a knob would be ridiculous, so a lot of stuff you have to go into the menus for, but the most commonly used stuff has a knob.

[Sinner6]

[good natured ribbing]

 

I am begining to formulate a theory as to why you don't like EMU sounds...

...not a "natural born tweaker"

 

[/good natured ribbing]

 

Good luck with your Virus! I noticed there is a tutorial at the Access site...maybe it can help?

[SweetAlien]

Excuse me please, but either you don't understand what I'm asling about or I don't understand something essential. Maybe VAs have totally different architecture than romplers (which I used to occassionally mess about, but I can't help tweaking more than two parameters without falling asleep)

 

So, let's have an example. I want to build such amp envelope for the osc2 (see attachment)

 

Ok, I've set the times with pots. But how do I set level values for each of the sections?

 

Or, if there is no envelope in Virus, tell me how to achieve the same result.

[AvS]

Don't worry about values think about how it sounds. If it sounds right it is right.

[Is.]

 

Originally posted by SweetAlien Excuse me please, but either you don't understand what I'm asling about or I don't understand something essential. Maybe VAs have totally different architecture than romplers (which I used to occassionally mess about, but I can't help tweaking more than two parameters without falling asleep) So, let's have an example. I want to build such amp envelope for the osc2 (see attachment) Ok, I've set the times with pots. But how do I set level values for each of the sections? Or, if there is no envelope in Virus, tell me how to achieve the same result.

 

(note - I don't actually own a virus, so this could be wrong, but this is my understanding of the virus architecture)

 

You don't control time and level on the virus envelopes, only time (sustain being the exception, time and level controls are both available). Attack automatically goes from 0 to maximum, decay goes from maximum to the sustain value, and release goes from the keyoff amplitude value to zero. VAs actually typically have more simple envelopes than the PCM-playback synths you are used to, as envelopes on the old analog synths were just ADSR, not T/L envelopes.

[SweetAlien]

Originally posted by AvS Don't worry about values think about how it sounds. If it sounds right it is right.

 

Why do you think I'm trying to edit the sound? Because it sounds wrong of course!

 

That example was just an example. My particular problem is that I found the right tembrally excellent sound I need, except that it's programmed so that:

1. It evolves in the volume after few seconds. Like: zzzZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzz ZZZZZzzzzzz.

I want it to be flat zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

2. It rapidly drops in volume. Not like in mono (the sound is set to poly mode, I tried switching it to the mono mode - it sounds differently then, like it should in mono), but just like going from 127 volume to 20, creating a dip in the sound of sequence when I press different key. And also it plays okey when played only one note - it decays smoothly.

 

And I need it to be pad-like, with constant volume, just an ordinary pad. I tweaked all the amp section knobs (both clcokwise and counterclockwise) but they didn't affect anything. The sound still raises after few seconds and drops suddenly in volume after I press different key.

[Kirumamoru]

I don't know, but it's probably the envelope attached to the filter cutoff that you need to change, not the amp envelope. Just a thought, since tweaking the amp envelope didn't do what you wanted it to do.

 

Kiru

[SweetAlien]

 

Originally posted by Is. (note - I don't actually own a virus, so this could be wrong, but this is my understanding of the virus architecture) You don't control time and level on the virus envelopes, only time (sustain being the exception, time and level controls are both available). Attack automatically goes from 0 to maximum, decay goes from maximum to the sustain value, and release goes from the keyoff amplitude value to zero. VAs actually typically have more simple envelopes than the PCM-playback synths you are used to, as envelopes on the old analog synths were just ADSR, not T/L envelopes.

 

 

Finally some help!!! Okey, that makes sense. A-0, D-127, Sustain - in menus (I remember there was a parameter called sustain time), Keyoff - should be there too (I'm at work right now, I'll check that when I get home).

 

Now it would be nice to know what you think about my second problem I've written above. Sound dropping that is.

[MuzikB]

Go to the Access Website and download a copy of SoundDiver Virus. It sounds like you could really use it.

 

As far as your second problem, take Kiru's advice.

[Yoozer]

Originally posted by SweetAlien And I need it to be pad-like, with constant volume, just an ordinary pad. I tweaked all the amp section knobs (both clcokwise and counterclockwise) but they didn't affect anything. The sound still raises after few seconds and drops suddenly in volume after I press different key.

 

Basic pad env is ADSR 4-10-10-4 (some attack, some decay, max volume). If in the meantime there's -anything- 'extra' happening to the volume, blame the mod matrix.

 

What's the preset's number & name, by the way? I have a VC, I might be of some more help .

[SweetAlien]

Originally posted by Yoozer Basic pad env is ADSR 4-10-10-4 (some attack, some decay, max volume). If in the meantime there's -anything- 'extra' happening to the volume, blame the mod matrix. What's the preset's number & name, by the way? I have a VC, I might be of some more help .

 

This sound is from "DJ Manne Trance V2" soundset (from Access site). Patch #2 (if you store the set to bank A it will be A2) - patch called "Substance".

 

Also please listen to this 200kb mp3 sample so you can hear exactly what I'm bitching about - bad drops when notes are changed, though sound decays well in the end.

 

Btw, I just came home amd the first thing I did was checking the Virus for those Sustain and Keyoff settings. Guess what - I didn't find them. Please tell me where they are.

[Styrerra]

We should also ask if he upgraded to 6.5

 

http://www.access-music.de/downloads.php4?product=virusc&category=3

 

I found nothing wrong with the envelope and it does sound like what I want to hear.

[SweetAlien]

Originally posted by MuzikB Go to the Access Website and download a copy of SoundDiver Virus. It sounds like you could really use it. As far as your second problem, take Kiru's advice.

 

Yeah, that's good, but I don't have a clue about programming routing and {censored}. I can't even grasp that simple ADSR thing yet... Besides I'm maybe a pervert, but if I edit a synth - I like to edit it itself, not through software. Yeah, I know...

[SweetAlien]

 

Originally posted by Styrerra We should also ask if he upgraded to 6.5 http://www.access-music.de/downloads.php4?product=virusc&category=3 I found nothing wrong with the envelope and it does sound like what I want to hear.

 

 

No, OS 5.0. I haven't upgrade it yet and not planning to in the near time. Maybe later.

 

As for the sound, I want each previous note continue after next note is played, so the transition would be smooth and unnoticable in the mix.

[roblogic]

 

Originally posted by SweetAlien ... As for the sound, I want each previous note continue after next note is played, so the transition would be smooth and unnoticable in the mix.

 

 

If you're in poly mode and have a long decay time, you should be getting the results you're after. Try identical settings for the filter ENV and the amp. The .mp3 sounded like the filter ENV was snapping closed somehow - perhaps the filter ENV decay is set to 0?

[SweetAlien]

 

Originally posted by roblogic If you're in poly mode and have a long decay time, you should be getting the results you're after. Try identical settings for the filter ENV and the amp. The .mp3 sounded like the filter ENV was snapping closed somehow - perhaps the filter ENV decay is set to 0?

 

 

Nah, turn the filter knobs all the way to the maximum - it didn't help.

[Yoozer]

Hm.. I might've figured out what's going on . See, you can use the LFO waves as a kind of simple, one-shot envelope (just take the 'simple' with a grain of salt - complex harmonic waves are impossible with vanilla ADSR, on the other hand you can't manipulate 'm).

 

To be horribly honest, I haven't taken a serious dive in the manual yet either.. but the best clue would be to observe the LFO 1/2/3 lights (they should get brighter when the sound gets louder). If that's the case, you've got your suspect .

[MuzikB]

Originally posted by SweetAlien Yeah, that's good, but I don't have a clue about programming routing and {censored}. I can't even grasp that simple ADSR thing yet... Besides I'm maybe a pervert, but if I edit a synth - I like to edit it itself, not through software. Yeah, I know...

 

I understand, but the software will help you see and understand some things, since all the Virus parameters are right there.

[SweetAlien]

Originally posted by Yoozer Hm.. I might've figured out what's going on . See, you can use the LFO waves as a kind of simple, one-shot envelope (just take the 'simple' with a grain of salt - complex harmonic waves are impossible with vanilla ADSR, on the other hand you can't manipulate 'm). To be horribly honest, I haven't taken a serious dive in the manual yet either.. but the best clue would be to observe the LFO 1/2/3 lights (they should get brighter when the sound gets louder). If that's the case, you've got your suspect .

 

No all lights are either rhythmically flashing, or evenly. Besides the menus structure are organized so that it's impossible to intuitively find them. Sometimes you need to accidentally press the wrong button to discover another menu section.

 

Could you at least tell me where can I set Sustain Level?

[mildbill]

what you are attempting to do (analyze someone else's patch), is very difficult, if not impossible to do without a pretty good understanding of a couple things:

a general knowledge of synthesis, and

a specific knowledge of the virus.

 

my virus has 2 sustain knobs, one for amp and one for filter.

there is also a time parameter in the menus that can set the time it takes to reach the sustain level after completing the decay phase.

 

because there are a lot of mod options in the virus, there are several places you'll have to check.

start with the lfo's. look for any parameter that's set to affect the amp or filter. specifically, at the bottom of the lfo mod options there is an assign led - get it to light by pressing the buttons and check in the display what it's assigned to.

you'll also have to check all the mod matrix assignments - basically look for the same thing.

while you're at it, if you find anything that sounds like what ou're looking for, change the settings and see if you can hear what effect it gives you.

 

i've been playing around with synths for almost 20 years and the virus still sometimes gives me fits. it's not the easiest piece to work with, but it sounds great.

what's confusing a lot of times is that the manual gives you no clue of how to get to specific menus, but it does give you a fair idea of what's in there (if only you could find it).

just spending time with the unit works better than using the manual.

i guess the manual was originally printed for the b series and was never updated when the c came out.

 

anyways, good luck with your project - keep working at it and eventually you'll get it.

[Is.]

Originally posted by SweetAlien No all lights are either rhythmically flashing, or evenly. Besides the menus structure are organized so that it's impossible to intuitively find them. Sometimes you need to accidentally press the wrong button to discover another menu section. Could you at least tell me where can I set Sustain Level?

 

Twist the sustain knob.