I hate my self cannot do good music with exisiting gears

[cowby]

be honest, I am a non-trainned person who play music in a tiny room just for my hobby.

 

8 years later until now, I've got enough gears to make music but whenever I sit down next to my new synth, Fantom S, I don't know where to start. Recently, I promised my wife (we've got married few months ago) that I will write a love music for her. But again, I don't know where to start. I bought a book called "Song writing from scratch" last week-end which is not very helpful. In my mind, I always love to make the drum beat first then lay some simple bass, GT, piano etc ... on top of it. But on and on, I found that my drum programming is not like that good so I am thinking of using pre-recorded sample loops in Acid then load it in Sonar. After that, I can layer other instruments on top of the loop. I hate to use the pre-recorded sample drum loops (i feel abit shame ?!@) though I know some producers here in my country use this approach. May be they tweak or recycle the loops to make them more funky or so...

 

Another thing that annoying me is too many gears to manage. For example : To write a piece music, I have to decide which 2 or 3 gears to use (no point to use them all in just one piece of music)and which software to seq. or edit etc ... That will slow down my process a bit ....

 

 

Here is my gear list :

 

http://www.cowby.net/images/my-gears.JPG

[Analog Kid]

well, music is from the heart, not mind (for a love song anyways)

 

my advice is you start by humming or singing the words to yourself. music has an identity apart from the notes and sounds, you have to feel the song first before you can catch it

[scubyfan]

Hey Cowby,

 

I have a similar problem, but I'm slowly finding a solution. Maybe you need to streamline and reduce your gear to the core essentials? In any event, try taking a different approach. Instead of making the beat first, try to find a melody. Or maybe you can start by imagining a sentence and forming a song around that. Or perhaps a chord progression over which you can write lyrics, melody, and everything else.

 

Let yourself go is what I'm trying to say. Don't let your potential be caught up in technicality or methods: use everything at your disposal to create what you feel in your heart.

[eminor9]

Too much gear imho !

 

Learn to know 2 or 3 pieces of gear very well. The Fantom lets you lay down ideas in minutes with their preset drums in performance mode, which can always be tweeked afterwards. All you have to do is to hit the REC button while playing, lay down chords and melody with matching sounds, and ideas are put down in minutes.

Then you can work out using other equipement to add different sound textures to keep it interesting.

I only use Fantom, NL2x, SP303 phrase sampler, a piano and guitars with hands on effect boxes into 8-track DAW (Boss).

Try other methods and see what works out best for you.

[Sleepin' Deeper]

I'm more of the "either ya got it or ya don't got it" -school of thought. If you got it, then the music will come to you. Sometimes in rainstorm like surges, sometimes it trickles down like melting snow, sometimes it flows like the Mississippi and sometimes it's locked up like a mother{censored}er locked up behind another mother{censored}er who be locked up behind the Hoover Dam, knowmsayin'!

 

So you're possibly going through one of those stages where the music ain't flowin' that freely.....

 

....or then ya just don't got it!

 

[the_resonator]

well, i'd have to agree with the above statement. Most famous artists go through periods, some of which last years, where they are not productive.

 

This is going to sound insane, but i'd recommend selling whichever rackmount you get the least out of and buying either a guitar or a bass--then you can try starting from a fresh place.

of perhaps you can start with a song lyric or a vocal melody...rahter than the way you are trying to go now.

 

it's not easy for lots of people, you are certainly not alone.

[D'Traveler]

My approach of late is to stretch a drum loop across, say, a 40 minute project, hit the record button and just begin playing something completely improvised in a key I'm remotely familiar with. I don't worry about structure at all. I just let happen what happens.

 

Of course, often it's crap, but other times there are bits I can use to create a song [or several songs] around.

[Sleepin' Deeper]

Originally posted by D'Traveler My approach of late is to stretch a drum loop across, say, a 40 minute project, hit the record button and just begin playing something completely improvised in a key I'm remotely familiar with. I don't worry about structure at all. I just let happen what happens. Of course, often it's crap, but other times there are bits I can use to create a song [or several songs] around.

 

I do that too. Hitting rec is very important because I'm sure I'm not the only one who's ever played a great solo, but never got it down on hard disk. Sometimes it's the "accidents" that can boost your inspiration to start a good track. If you're out of inspiration, just play, and something will come up. If you're still stuck for ideas, get away from the studio for a few days. If you're STILL stuck for ideas.......then....well.......you just don't got it!

[greenshag]

I have found that people are not the same when it comes to writing music. Some people work better starting with a melody on the guitar, others on piano, some work best starting with drum beats. Somebody mentioned your least used piece of gear, and selling that. Maybe you would be more creative writing your rough melodies and what not on guitar instead of a keyboard?

[Yoozer]

That, and a Fantom-S? What a treasure trove of sounds! As for the drumloops, you might indeed want to chop 'm up first and then use 'm as a sort of drumkit.

 

As for the lovesong - she's not asking from time to time how far you've progressed, right? .

 

But maybe a really important question first - how do you like your gear? I see you have a rack full of stuff. Do you feel like your studio's incomplete if you don't switch it all on, or can you focus completely on the Fantom?

 

Especially the sampler would be daunting - it won't do much unless you put something in. Best idea would probably be to use a simple piano or EP patch on the Fantom and start from there. You could also try as an experiment to layer various tracks on the MS2KR - using only that, nothing else, minimal sequences to build a 'whole'. It's an excercise in psychology and patience, but you'll learn pretty well after a few times what notes and timbres interlock properly.

[Purity_Control]

Forget about gear while you compose, if you come up with something good it will sound good on piano or on a basic piano patch, if you come up with something cr*p it will still be cr*p even on the best gear in the world.

 

Have you thought about maybe having lessons or something, it could give you a different perspective on music and some ideas of where to start.

 

If you really have feelings that you want to express in music then that's an excellent motivation for doing it, it sounds to me like you could do to improve your playing ability to help translate those feelings into something tangible.

[Mr EggyToast]

Yep, definitely a lot of gear. Yamaha equipment isn't exactly the best for immediate user interfaces, though (I've sold every piece of yamaha gear I've ever purchased).

 

I got into music using trackers and when I got actual equipment, I still made a few tracks using just a nord micro modular. Then I started being "serious" and tried using those big sequencers like sonar, etc. And I stopped making anything. I'm not professionally trained and I can't actually *play* music, but given the right interface and I can make some really funky stuff. the problem, for me, was the interface.

 

So I ditched all those big "midi editors" that are crap for sequencing from scratch and looked more at programs that are for sequencing and creation from scratch. I found a program called Numerology for the mac that encouraged me to both buy a mac (which had other reasons too, namely for more audio use like recording as well as video). it's been great -- I've actually been interested in making music again, and it's super-easy for me to visualize how to take what I have and move it into full songs.

 

I've also made sure that the music equipment I have is much more immediate. I'm not a professional producer so I don't have the time nor motivation to spend ages using convoluted hardware when there's plenty of very, very immediate other stuff out there. For instance, I use a dedicated PC laptop for some VSTi's and Kontakt, because Kontakt absolutely rocks for super-fast sampling and setting up sampled stuff, like drums, whatever. I sold an A5k and, wow, what a difference. I also just sold a Nord Modular Rack which, while great, wasn't useful for just getting ideas out of quickly. It's been replaced with a Chameleon which has similar flexibility but a FAR more immediate sound.

 

So yeah. There's two important elements to getting started with music, I'm convinced, especially if you can't play an instrument. First is having an easy interface for, most importantly, sequencing, and, not as important but also important, for making sounds.

 

The second element is to not worry about what you're making. You just gotta make it. Having a good interface will make it easier for you to put songs together, but you can't expect yourself to make pop hits right off the bat. Don't try to make perfect songs, but rather just try to make songs. Even if they're really bad! You gotta have the experience of putting songs together and what works and what doesn't work, and you gotta swallow your pride and you'll make some bad music to start. That's fine. Just don't send them around to people -- keep them to yourself and use them as a springboard for more ideas. But you gotta make those first songs first before you can make better songs. It's even more important for those of us who don't play an instrument because we don't have the experience of playing other songs and feelign how songs flow.

 

So yeah. How do you sequence things, and what do you use to put it all together? Is it fast and fun? Or is it laborious? Music should be fun, not troublesome, so have fun with it. If YOU are having a hard time, then you need to try another approach. not everyone makes music the same way, so just because someone else is fine recording everything live as they play a keyboard, others work much better doing the sequencing by hand in a good sequencer. note that programs like Cubase and Sonar etc. are more midi *editors* rather than midi *sequencers* since they're not geared for the live, on the fly movement of sequences and patterns. They're great if you can play and record yourself but sub-optimal if you can't play and resort to plugging away putting little ticks on a piano roll.

[clusterchord]

love song approach (sort of):

 

1 screw gear. (starting loop and bass sets too narrow limits for possible harmony/melody coming later.)

2 sit at the piano (or digital recreation whatever)

3 relax, hum or sing melodies, bit by bit shape one that lifts you emotionally, one that's speaking to you. (dont think harmony at all!!)

4 try and repeat it on the piano, just the moelody.

5 slowly introduce left hand harmony. find what works and supports the melody. Dont choose cliche voicing that your fingers have gotten used to, but try and choose just by listening.

6 if applicable , introduce rhythmic figures in your left hand etc

7 if it sounds great this way, now you can think about arrangement, some acoustic bass , jazzy drums whatever and add things that support the general ambiance. OTOH, you can play it to your wife just as it is. on a piano. She wants to hear YOU not your GEAR, trust me.

 

 

do it.

[cowby]

gugs,

 

Those gears are bought in a very nice price so I keep them all. And in the near future, I have no plan to sell any one of them because just in case I need Ananlog sound or I need a better drum when MS2K or DMPro were gone...

[cowby]

Oh, I pressed the enter key so .....

 

Here I go again.

 

So I sat down alone tonight and also wrote down those most used instruments of each type of music that I would like to make. e.g. Pop/Ballad would use AC. GT, drum, bass, Piano etc ....

 

And now, I concetrate on one piece of gear, Fantom S which bought for a week and Sonar 3. Downloading someone's art work is another way to learn how to arrange songs. I am now trying to make a dance tune first as I think dance tune is easy to make comparing to other kind of music like those looopy house tune. Will use the stock preset first and not trying to tweak them at the moment. Again, I will also make the drum beat first and then put a bass line + synth line etc ...

 

Hope I can do a short tune first.

 

Cheers!

 

Cowby

[manisedap]

The xv 3080 should be enough to make a love song. The EX5R also. Either one of those two alone should be enough and you can sell the rest. If it was me, I'd keep only the xv and ms2000r. I can pump up love songs from those two.

 

Here's a tip. Go for colorful major keys like a maj7, and the boring progression of C, F, G. Humm a simple melody from your instinct/heart whatever. Or, make a pattern of chords that you like and just hum to it. Go with the flow.

[Mr EggyToast]

 

Originally posted by clusterchord love song approach (sort of): 1 screw gear. (starting loop and bass sets too narrow limits for possible harmony/melody coming later.) 2 sit at the piano (or digital recreation whatever) 3 relax, hum or sing melodies, bit by bit shape one that lifts you emotionally, one that's speaking to you. (dont think harmony at all!!) 4 try and repeat it on the piano, just the moelody. 5 slowly introduce left hand harmony. find what works and supports the melody. Dont choose cliche voicing that your fingers have gotten used to, but try and choose just by listening. 6 if applicable , introduce rhythmic figures in your left hand etc

 

 

Uhh.. But he's not trained for an instrument? At least, that's what I understand "be honest, I am a non-trainned person " to mean, not "I am very good at playing piano but need help finding a method." he's only had the fantom s for a week and his other gear is rack-oriented, not keyboard oriented.

 

I've made tracks and have been actively involved in music, but put me in front of a keyboard/piano and I can't do anything. Well, anything musical. But I sure can sample it, sequence it, and *make* it musical. Given the right sequencing tools, of course. Ones that don't require to me to sit in front of a keyboard ;D

[Stbean]

I've got the same problem:(

[Stbean]

 

Originally posted by cowby be honest, I am a non-trainned person who play music in a tiny room just for my hobby. 8 years later until now, I've got enough gears to make music but whenever I sit down next to my new synth, Fantom S, I don't know where to start. Recently, I promised my wife (we've got married few months ago) that I will write a love music for her. But again, I don't know where to start. I bought a book called "Song writing from scratch" last week-end which is not very helpful. In my mind, I always love to make the drum beat first then lay some simple bass, GT, piano etc ... on top of it. But on and on, I found that my drum programming is not like that good so I am thinking of using pre-recorded sample loops in Acid then load it in Sonar. After that, I can layer other instruments on top of the loop. I hate to use the pre-recorded sample drum loops (i feel abit shame ?!@) though I know some producers here in my country use this approach. May be they tweak or recycle the loops to make them more funky or so... Another thing that annoying me is too many gears to manage. For example : To write a piece music, I have to decide which 2 or 3 gears to use (no point to use them all in just one piece of music)and which software to seq. or edit etc ... That will slow down my process a bit .... Here is my gear list : http://www.cowby.net/images/my-gears.JPG

 

 

wow, thats a nice setup you got there..

I'm sure youll be able to churn something out with that.

Hows the DMPRO? Was thinking about gettin one.

[J3RK]

[Hijack]

 

Mr. EggyToast: I started on trackers too well sort of. I really started on some C64 editors (like the Vibrants JCH editors.) Started actually making decent music on Pro Tracker for my A500. Then moved up to Fast Tracker and the like on the PC. Now all I use is Cubase SX2 though. I haven't touched a tracker in a long time. Sometimes I kind of miss them. I've got too much hardware and VSTIs to go back though.

 

[/Hijack]

[Boom]

You have a nice assortment of gear. Way better than what I have.

 

Anyway for the songwriting. You just can study a book then sit down and write a song. It's a creative process and you can't force it. It has to just come to you. Maybe you should do something to inspire yourself. Get high, go on a trip somewhere, go for a hike, whatever turns you one. remember one thing, the best songs are deseptively simple. Keep things simple. Come up with a nice chord progression, play wround with it, eventually you'll come up with something.

[J3RK]

This isn't going to help for a love song, but just for a general electronic track, (which you have plenty of gear for) try starting by twisting knobs and coming up with a cool sound. Once you have a sound that you think sounds good, start playing around with it. (On the keys,) along the lines of what others have told you to do with the piano sound. Once you have an idea for the sound, start adding drums and complimentary sounds. I start many of my tracks by building on a single sound that I made, or came across.

[J3RK]

Oh, and never promise someone a love song before it's made Write one, (however long it takes,) and then surprise her with it later.

[cowby]

Guys,

 

Thanks for your "Very sweet and warm discussion" rather than Fuc% off Cowby, you don't belong to music.

 

Just blame on Gear Lust ! I always afraid of lacking of gears in my room. But as you guys said, it is not the matter of gears. Yes, I spent too much the time on manual, Internet (forum/review etc ..), software operation and even tweaking sound. So I kind of forgetting the real meaning of making music. So last night, I did a pretty short Pop/Ballad tune. What a nice try ! But we must agree that when we are on the way to our office or in driving in a car, our head just full of music idea. At least to me, I sometimes humm a melody while I am walking. Sitting next to the synth and they are gone.

 

Here is my proposed appoarch to make Pop/Love/Ballad (melody part).

 

Restrict using 11-12 key range. i.e 1.5 octive max. If using more than 2 octives of keys, it is hard to sing (too low or too high for vocal). Any more suggestion.

 

I also love to hear the basic structure of a love song.

 

Verse... Chorus etc ..

 

Thanks!

 

Cowby

[scubyfan]

In my mind, a love song should have piano and/or strings. I'm a sucker for strings.