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Kawai MP9500 discontinued - luckily I got one


cjsm

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The MP9500 is the bomb! I can't believe it is being discontinued. Hopefully Kawai is planning on a new version. I love it!

 

The keyboard action is all it is cracked up to be. Its like the Rolls Royce of digital pianos. Of course compared to A $200 keyboard its sensational. Compared to my Yamaha P80, which is very good, I would rate the P80 an A-, and the MP9500 an A+, for a digital keyboard.

 

I decided to upgrade recently, for a couple of reasons. After two 0r 3 years I was growing really tired of the unexpressive piano sound and other sounds in the P80 (which seemed pretty good when I bought it). To that end I decided to get more sounds

through midi. At first, I bought Reason and Gigasampler. This gave me much better pianos and more sounds, but led to me wanting a better midi controller, because the p80 doesn'thave many features above the most basic in this regard. I couldn't use Reason or Gigastudio to their full potential without a better midi controller.

 

I also wanted a different action then my Yamaha. Though great for a digital piano, it is a little harsh when the key hits bottom, that plastic on plastic feel. Thus, I didn't want to get another

Yamaha, I wanted to try a different brand of action, for varieties sake. Not to diss the Yamaha action, though. If I only owned the Kawai MP9500, I would get a Yamaha next, just to have a

keyboard with that action built in. They are both very good for digital pianos.

 

The keyboards I was considering were the Fatar SL80pro, the new M-Audio 88 weighted keyboard, and the Kawai MP9500. Last week, when browsing the online internet stores, I saw the MP 9500 had been disconinued, and discounted to $1599. I jumped on that deal. And am I glad I did.

 

Its sounds are much better then the P80, which is what you would expect from a keyboard that lists for over twice as much, and is a couple years newer, since the price of electronics keep going down. I would play classical in public with the piano sounds of the MP9500, but I would be reluctant to do

that with the P80. I seem to have more control with the MP9500. My playing seems to be more soulful. All in all, the P80s action might be a hare faster, but the MP9500's action seems much more expressive.

 

The effects are also great on the MP9500, (the P80 has next to none). Though the autowah is weak, the distortion and overdrive effects sound great. I can add overdrive to a piano, and play something that will sound decent for a rock guitar solo section.

 

While the P80 has only the most basic midi features, the MP9500 is loaded with them. 4 zones, which can be used in any combination, can trigger both internal sounds and external or both, giving you 8 possible zones. You can easily swich zones on an off with buttons for each zone. The MP95000 also has 4 sliders and 4 knobs, which can be programmed to control, say the Reason sound modulels (although I havn't gotten around to trying this yet, will soon.) And optional foot pedals give you more control (have an expression pedal, other is on order). Of course, pitch bend and Modulation wheels are present. The layering is great for Rock/Pop. I can set bass for the bottom. Electic piano in middle and brass at the top. With another zone for anything else. I can layer the interal sounds with Reason or Gigapiano sounds. Or switch on or the other off, and shift between them. Rock and pop sound better when arraged for various intruments. Much better then just playing an all piano version. The Zones are a thousand times more flexible and useful then the simple split on the p80, which can't even be transmitted out of the keyboard through midi (I don't think). I also think the P250 only has a simple split. I guess you have to get a synth model to get decent midi features in a Yamaha.

 

You can also program MULTIES, saving your setup ofthe 4 zones int/ext and effects any way you want, and save up to 64. You can then link them in any order, and switch through them with a foot switch while your playing.

 

Thus if diffent parts of a song call for different instruments or settings, just progam different Multies, and switch between them with a footswitch.

 

I am glad I got a keyboard with internal sounds, rather then just a controller. Its nice being able to do a lot of arranging and stuff just from the keyboard, without having to turn on the computer.

In fact, it is much easier to setup and adjust the sounds on the keyboard then in Reason or Gigastudio.

 

Overall, I don't think I've ever been happier or more satisfied with a puchase in my life then I am with the Kawai MP9500.

 

Please Kawai, Come out with a replacement, don't abandon this market!

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Originally posted by GigMan

How much does it weigh?
:eek::confused:

 

Never mind, I looked it up myself at www.kawaius.com - damn thing weighs 70.5 lbs. !!

 

I guess it is a direct competitor to the Yamaha P250, eh?

 

BTW -

Did you get the MP9500 (as your post's title suggests - or the MP3500, as the body of the text of your post states?

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Man... makes me want to get one of those, with the price drop. Nothing like variety.... ^_^

 

Hey, does it respond to sostenuto via MIDI? I know that it has only a two-pedal unit, so I might be inclined to, say, set it up with my P-250 so I can drag the three P-250 pedals over, set them underneath the MP9500, and then MIDI the signals over from the P-250.

 

Hell, why am I even thinking about this? I can't afford an MP9500!

 

Kiru

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uggh, I see I was calling it a 3500 in the text. No, its a 9500. I edited to fix it.

 

Yep, it weighs 70 lbs. But most top end keyboards and workstations weight this much. P250, etc. Except the S90 weighs less. It would be a lot heavier to take to a gig then the P80, but has a lot better features and sounds.

 

Settings can be set for the expression pedal to control Sostenuto. It comes with two pedals, and has inputs for 2 more.

So I got the one extra expression pedal, and have ordered a foot switch pedal. According to the manual, midi in can control expression, which can be set to Modulation, Volume, pan, Sostenuto, etc. your choice.

 

Even at the discount $1600 is a lot of money. I put it on my credit card. But after seeing all it can do compared to a P80, it was worth it. If you are a musician who plays Rock&Pop (I play about 50/50 Rock&Pop/Classical), you will be very happy if you can scrape together the money/go into debt to get an upper end keyboard, (assuming your stuck on a lower end one like I was, a P80/P90). The extra features and sounds will blow you away, and make your playing much more enjoyable.

 

I guess my next step up is something like a Triton or Motiff workstation for 3 grand or so, though not for another year or two. I hate to spend that kind of money, but getting the MP9500 convinced me that the extra features of the high end keyboards are worth it, over the features of the entry level keyboards. I look at it this way, by going into debt, I'm helping the economy. I love doing good deeds.

 

cjsm

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You can find good deals right now on the previous model, the mp9000. There are two on EBAY.

 

http://search.ebay.com/mp9000_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

 

I just ordered one from a different source--same price as the one on EBAY--$1100

The grand piano patch is the same. Action is a little lighter(non-graded) and bouncier. Which I like.

Also more sounds and midi functionality on the MP9500.

 

I was going to get a Yamaha p90 until I tried it out. Keys felt really heavy to me (Isn't the p90 supposed to have the lighter action?) The p250 felt wonderful, though. IMHO there's no way those two boards are using the same action. The P250 is definitely lighter and smoother. I wonder if there is board-to-board variation on action in the same model, or whether an action can be "broken in" after the keys have been played enough?

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Originally posted by bebop603

I was going to get a Yamaha p90 until I tried it out. Keys felt really heavy to me (Isn't the p90 supposed to have the lighter action?) The p250 felt wonderful, though. IMHO there's no way those two boards are using the same action. The P250 is definitely lighter and smoother. I wonder if there is board-to-board variation on action in the same model, or whether an action can be "broken in" after the keys have been played enough?

 

 

You are right the P250 and P90 actions are different. But the P250 action is not really lighter. The reason it probably feels lighter and smoother to you is that the key touch to sound is more responsive so it plays and feels much smoother and easier to control. With the sound off, the P250 action actually feels stiffer and heavier than the P90's.

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I hope they release a new version with simpler sounds (just for MIDI controller) because those piano sounds and stufs like that only make the digital pianos more expensive and that's why I think are not well sell, that do you think about that?

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Well I'm happy with the piano sounds in the Kawai, compared to the P80, although that's not really a fair comparison in a way, since the Kawai costs twice as much. I have GigaStudio 2.5, so I can use other pianos, but I still like the Kawai sounds. I can use the piano sounds on the Kawai and be satisfied with them, without feeling the need to boot up gigastudio for a decent sound. But who knows, maybe in six months I'll be tired of the sounds.

 

I agree that a stripped down version of the keyboard with good midi control options would be useful. That way, you could just use the keyboard with Reason or Kontakt or synths you might have lying around. There are midi controlers out there, with 88 weighted keys, Fatar and M-Audio, but I think the big companies like Yamaha and Korg are ignoring this market. Their mindset is, if you want these extra midi functions (which cost $20 to impletment), you have to pay an extra thousand for the next level keyboard family. But I think as programs like Reason become more common, you'll start seeing more and more good midi controlers.

 

The main feature I like best, more then the internal sounds, are the 4 programable zones and other midi functions. The 4 zones can be used for internal or external midi sounds or both, giving me 8 effective zones (with the limitation the 4 external zones layer over the four internal). If I wanted to layer sounds using just the internal sounds, I have to use two of the four zones for that, leaving me only two more zones to work with. But with the external option, I can just layer an internal zone with an external, or use an external layered sound itself, saving me a zone. In fact the possibilites are almost endless. You can use a fader to adust the volume for the internal zone and and a control knob for the external sound volume, letting you use both sounds layered, or just the internal sound, or just the external sound by themselves.

 

The Yamaha P250 may have better sounds, (I doubt the P120 does). I don't know, I haven't played it, except for a minute at Guitar Center, but aren't its midi capabilities limited? Can it only has split for two zones. I know on the P80, you can only split or layer, but not both. Is this true of the P250, (and P120)? If so, this might stop me from buying a P250, as much as I like Yamaha keyboards (a P120 wouldn't be enough of an upgrade over a P80 for me). I just find the 4 zones and other midi funtions so useful . Especially in conjunction with Reason and Gigastudio the four zones are extremely useful.

 

If fact, even on the P80, if I had 4 zones instead of just the split, I'd be much more happier with it. On the P80, I could have a bass sound in the lower keys, or a layered sound, but not both. Too limiting for me. I don't think I'd buy another digital keyboard without programable zones.

 

cjsm

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In my opinion, the p120 kicks the MP9500's and P250s's butt. Kawai has OK piano sounds and action to me, but I dont like them. The action seems wobbly. The p250 in my opinion is just plain harsh and weird, but this is my opinion. I tried the p250 and MP9500 both out thouroghly and didnt like them at all.

 

The p120 is absolutely superb. Its has warm and beatiful grand and upright pianos, and the action is superb and smooth. The EP's and other sounds are also superb.

 

Regards,

p120dUdE

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The P-250 allows you to split AND layer simultaniously. It's MIDI and controller functions are far superior to the limited options on the P-120. Most people (including myself) believe that the P-250's sound is noticably refined from the P-120, though a (very) small and (very) vocal minority strongly disagrees. You'd have to try it for yourself, of course, though there's no real need to, since you're happy with the MP9500. ^_^

 

Kiru

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Well, if the P250 does have multiple zones and decent midi functions, I would be happy with it. I'll have to try out the P250 and the P120 more carefully next time I go to Guitar Center (a fifty mile drive from rural area where I live.)

 

Actually, I want to try and talk my ex sister-in-law into buying a digital piano. She used to have a Stein Baby Grand, then a Steinway upright, which I used play once in while. I don't think she has a piano now, since she moved to the city. But I think there are quite a few people like her, who used to play the piano, and gave it up because it was too heavy to move, too loud, etc. I stopped playing for years for exactly that reason. Many people don't realize how much digital pianos have advanced. They never try them out, and just sort of assume they are not very good, compared to a real one. To me, the big advantage of a digital is you can do some serious practice on it without have the neighbors call the cops.

 

But as for the keys on the MP9500 being wobbly, it seems fine to me. I don't think its any more wobbly the the P80, but it does have more of bounce when you hit. It just makes it seem more like a real piano to me.

 

cjsm

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I played the Kawai piano for awhile recently and liked it quite a bit. Very pro feeling. Much more pro than a P120, that's for sure. At least it does not have a wall wart!

 

One thing about the 9500 and 9000 - they are some TALL mothers! I hate to think of how big the case would be to hold one of those things!

 

If Kawai would make this puppy in a smaller box, similar in size to a P250 or RD600, I might consider one.

 

Regards,

Eric

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In my opinion,

 

The Kawai MP9500 has a wobbly action, and their piano sounds are not warm and smooth. Kawai's grand piano sounds do not connect to the action very well. I felt the dynamics were not great.

 

The p120's smooth Graded Hammer Keybed and superb 22mb pianos kick the Kawai's butt.

 

Regards,

p120dUdE

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The p120's smooth Graded Hammer Keybed and superb 22mb pianos kick the Kawai's butt.

 

 

The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

 

Tell me something less predictable.

 

Regards,

Eric

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Originally posted by p120dUdE

In my opinion,


The Kawai MP9500 has a wobbly action, and their piano sounds are not warm and smooth. Kawai's grand piano sounds do not connect to the action very well. I felt the dynamics were not great.


The p120's smooth Graded Hammer Keybed and superb 22mb pianos kick the Kawai's butt.


Regards,

p120dUdE

 

 

I would not call the action 'wobbly'. The Kawai definitely has the most solid, piano-like action of ALL stage pianos. That's because it basically IS a piano action.

 

I agree, however, that in the STOCK settings, the piano sounds do not connect well to the action. They don't have the expressiveness or dynamic range of the P series.

 

Apprently though, with some basic editing it is possible to correct this and tailor the dynamic range/velocity curves etc to the individual. I have not tried this however, but I'm not going to blatantly call the key to sound connection BAD and unfixable.

 

Will be visiting a music store with the MP9500 in stock this week, so I'll sit down and edit the velocity curves and see if it is in fact possible.

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Originally posted by cjsm

Actually, I want to try and talk my ex sister-in-law into buying a digital piano. She used to have a Stein Baby Grand, then a Steinway upright, which I used play once in while. I don't think she has a piano now, since she moved to the city. But I think there are quite a few people like her, who used to play the piano, and gave it up because it was too heavy to move, too loud, etc. I stopped playing for years for exactly that reason. Many people don't realize how much digital pianos have advanced. They never try them out, and just sort of assume they are not very good, compared to a real one. To me, the big advantage of a digital is you can do some serious practice on it without have the neighbors call the cops.

And how about the fact that they never need tuning? :)

 

Kiru

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Originally posted by Kirumamoru


And how about the fact that they never need tuning?
:)

Kiru

 

Right -

I am in that position myself: my little spinet upright piano in my living rm (a room barely big enough to hold a piano, given that there's also a couch, recliner, tv on cart, stereo rack, etc...) will NOT hold it's tune lately. I had it tuned in February, yet it is already out of tune. And it's the piano tuner - I know the guy, he does good work, is a kybd. plyr. himself, I've filled in for him on gigs, etc...

 

Of course, I DO have it on an outside wall (a no-no) and it IS up against a baseboard heater (also a no-no). But there is no other spot in the living rm. to put it - unless I rearrange to whole room to accomodate the positioning requirements of the piano. I actually did that when we moved in (1997) and had no kids, but am NOT willing to do so now.

 

But still, a digital replacement a la Yamaha P250 is sounding more and more practical: it would take up less room, would never need tuning and I could on occasion take it out for gigs + make back the money spent on it (occasions when I eat my Wheaties, that is - it's too darn heavy to take out for every gig).

 

Or, maybe I'll get a P120, which is much lighter - and could be taken out for EVERY gig (every cocktail hour type gig, that is)...

 

 

:eek::p

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Originally posted by -groovatious-

I would not call the action 'wobbly'. The Kawai definitely has the most solid, piano-like action of ALL stage pianos. That's because it basically IS a piano action.

No, it's really not. :) Sorry to have to disagree, but if you look at the design of the MP9500 action, you'll see that it is nowhere near as complicated as even the simplest action of a crummy upright. :) That's not to say that it doesn't feel good. But the action only has basically two parts: a wooden key, and a plastic hammer. The hammer is (I believe) directly connected to the key, and the rubber contacts that determine the velocity are triggered by the hammer, which is levered upwards as the key is pressed.

 

The Yamaha action is designed to be more compact, and so the hammer is attached to the front underside of the key, instead of the top of the back of the key, but in practice this really won't make much difference in feel. The contacts on the Yamaha are in fact triggered by the key itself, not the hammer... but any difference in how this would make the piano respond could be handled in software.

 

Kiru

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Originally posted by Kirumamoru


No, it's really not.
:)
Sorry to have to disagree, but if you look at the design of the MP9500 action, you'll see that it is nowhere near as complicated as even the simplest action of a crummy upright.
:)
That's not to say that it doesn't feel good. But the action only has basically two parts: a wooden key, and a plastic hammer. The hammer is (I believe) directly connected to the key, and the rubber contacts that determine the velocity are triggered by the hammer, which is levered upwards as the key is pressed.


The Yamaha action is designed to be more compact, and so the hammer is attached to the front underside of the key, instead of the top of the back of the key, but in practice this really won't make much difference in feel. The contacts on the Yamaha are in fact triggered by the key itself, not the hammer... but any difference in how this would make the piano respond could be handled in software.

Kiru

 

Ok, maybe I should clarify what I meant.

 

Well, you pretty much did. I meant, in principle, it's a lot closer to a piano action than everything else on the market. In that it uses REAL SOLID WOODEN keys, flicking up a hammer which then hits a sensor, as apposed to the actual key. True this can be manipulated in software, but I still feel that the Kawai feels and responds more like a real grand piano.

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