sorta OT: lyrics/profanity songwriting opinions?

[the_resonator]

So I have a site where people can download stuff and the other day this peripheral friend (friend's ex-girlfriend) went there and, apparently, got all {censored}ing offended because there was too much "obscenity and profanity" in one of the songs!

 

I thought about it, and there is about maybe 30-35 admittedly 4-letter kinda words and references to illegal family-love kinda stuff. But, dammit, the song is about a guy whose girlfriend chose some other guy, and he's all pissed off!

 

I mean, i started playing guitar and so forth in thrash/punk bands in the late 80s and early 90s..i just never thought about offending people by using profanity..insulting their religion or country or something else-yeah..

 

I dunno, i was just wondering in general what everyone else feels about this fairly unimportant issue that i suddenly find myself caring about..if only a little.

 

is it important to you (not regarding radioplay or whatever--they can beep it) to watch your language?

Do you think it retracts from the song?

Do you think you have a "duty" to be honest about yourself and have lyrics that sound "real" (this only counts if you have a foul mouth)?

 

thanks for any opinions on this, i promise to respect yours even if you completely disagree.

[Yoozer]

The solution in this overly sensitive world with a complete loss of 'common sense' is simple - add a disclaimer "might contain vulgar language, parental blah blah". Those who want to listen aren't bothered by it, those who aren't allowed to listen will click definately, and those who whine have been warned, so they can't really complain.

 

I don't get how people 'get offended' by it in the first place. "Wow, that bad man says fornication under consent of the king, abbreviated! I feel violated! My ears should avoid this stuff at all cost!".

 

I guess I'm pretty desensitized towards it; on the other hand, when someone has only lyrics made out of cusswords, I'm like "dude, try to write original stuff, this is copy paste".

[the_resonator]

yeah, you're right about the disclaimer, defiantely.

I've never given out the site address liberally, because it's all available for free download, so i hadn't really thought about a disclaimer. But, definately, it's required now that you mention it.

 

there are other words in there..somewhere;)

[Sleepin' Deeper]

To add to that, Western profanity is extremely mild and tame. You guys should hear / know what Turkish people use to cuss. They say {censored} like:

 

Man, I {censored}ed your mother with a broom stick, I cut off your dad's penis, stuffed it in your dog's mouth and I jizzed all over your sisters skankybreasts!

 

The difference is, they have cool, short words that roughly mean the same thing. Saying "{censored} off" is peanuts man......

[the_resonator]

 

Originally posted by Sleepin' Deeper Man, I {censored}ed your mother with a broom stick, I cut off your dad's penis, stuffed it in your dog's mouth and I jizzed all over your sisters skankybreasts!

 

 

kick ass.

 

i know some turks, gonna have to ask them about this.

[AgtOrange]

I've heard that russian curses are fairly epic as well.

 

Foul language is so ubiquitos these days that I'm continually surprised that people even notice it, let alone be offended by it. I know some people for whom '{censored}' is a preposition. As far as I knew, the only universally offensive word, other than ethnic slurs, was the evil 'C' word. That one still makes mouths drop open.

[D'Traveler]

It's human nature to hate what we do not, or will not understand. Some people are able to rise above that, others have no interest in doing so. Those people thrive on conflict and strive for control of others. They dig deep to look for that one little thing they can create conflict over. Years of societal training has given them free liscense to play judge, jury and executioner.

 

I believe, in cases like this, that people choose to become offended, and that choice stems from some pathological need to be in control of others.

 

Personally, I no longer use a lot of that kind of language, as my tendency toward it when I was younger always seemed to cast a bad reflection. In the arts however, it's about expressing that particular emotional state of mind of the artist [or the artist's subject], and I for one am much more forgiving. The message in some songs isn't always a pretty one. The learning experience offered isn't always one we would choose.

 

If you feel that your harsh lyrics were a necessary ingredient to expressing the message of your song, then you shouldn't doubt yourself. Pay no mind to those that would be offended, as they are merely looking for a reason to be offended, and you've got better things to do.

[D'Traveler]

Originally posted by DodgingRain It's all those frickin bible belt losers. Religion is going to eventually kill us all. If someone is a religious person they should be ashamed of themselves. I don't care if your muslim, christian, hindu, budist or whatever, those are simply other words for hate-monger. Vile low-life creatures. 'Ohhh.... my invisible friend is right and he is stronger than yours.... he's going to beat you up...." {censored}ing nut case. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Good morning to everyone...

 

Ha ha, I'm glad someone else said that rather than me! I really wanted to go there too.

[AgtOrange]

Think of the children!

 

I blame soccer moms and their gigantic SUVs.

 

BTW, D'Traveler, that was very eloquently put. *applause*

[Purity_Control]

I don't mind a few expletives if there's fair reason to use them, if they're just there for their own sake thought or to try to offend I find them tedious.

 

As a matter of personal preference, I like to think that saving a good expletive for special occassions gives it a bit more power than if the lyrics are peppered with them.

 

C*nt is one of the few that I do have problems with. It derives from the anglo-saxon for a scabbard. Really it's a pretty foul connotation, the notion that something is good for nothing except for a guy to dip his wick in, and not even that in modern usage.

[Loreman]

Chances are people offended by this are people you wanna offend anyway so... y'know.

 

 

Fukkem!

 

 

Cheers

Loreman

[the_resonator]

 

Originally posted by Purity_Control I don't mind a few expletives if there's fair reason to use them, if they're just there for their own sake thought or to try to offend I find them tedious. As a matter of personal preference, I like to think that saving a good expletive for special occassions gives it a bit more power than if the lyrics are peppered with them. C*nt is one of the few that I do have problems with. It derives from the anglo-saxon for a scabbard. Really it's a pretty foul connotation, the notion that something is good for nothing except for a guy to dip his wick in, and not even that in modern usage.

 

 

apparently, the "C word" is a term of endearment.

This newsflash brought to you by The University of Colorado (a US state college)'s president (note: she's female)

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/3419466/detail.html

 

also note, she is full of "the S word"

[Purity_Control]

According to something that someone pulled off of Google:

 

{censored} is believed to derive from a Germanic root *kunton "female genitalia", which also gave rise to Old Norse kunta (ancestor of Norwegian and Swedish dialectical kunta and Danish dialectical kunte), Old Frisian, Middle Low German and Middle Dutch kunte, and the English doublet quaint. And, by the way, the word wasn't always considered derogatory, even though it is today. Be careful about assuming that a word's modern connotations must have governed its formation. By the way, no connection has been made between the Germanic words and Latin cunnus. The proto-Germanic root of {censored} is ku- "hollow place", while the Indo-European root of Latin cunnus is (s)keu- "to cover, to conceal", the etymological meaning of cunnus being "sheath".

 

So the answer is sort of.

 

Usually I stick to the occassional f*cking in my songs:D

 

 

 

[Texas Noise Factory]

hmmm... Anyone seen that new movie "Saved" yet?

 

Somehow I feel it relates to this thread...

 

*shrugs*

 

BTW... I *do* find the link on your site to that abortion of crap called "Texas Noise Factory" absolutely disgusting...

 

[the_resonator]

damn right.

they are an abortion and that other Supadupavilleen thing is a {censored}ing microsurgical vasectomy gone wrong.

[jchas]

I guess i'll be the only one to support the other side of the

fence. Yes I am Christian - but not to the point of believing

all others should hold my specific morals. Yes i live in the

Bible belt - though Minnesota is hardly the center of it. And

i'm anything but shallow - you may get off one bitch-slap

DodgingRain - but i'm afraid it may be your last.

 

My feelings towards it is this, 99% of the time a song is

pumped up with swear words it is done so because there

is no real artistic value to pump it up. Sort of like a teenage

movie, a 1/2 hour sitcom, or a reality t.v. show - if you can't

make a quality product just insert a bit of nudity or violence

and the kids will go crazy for it. All in all the product is still

junk, it will have no real lasting appeal, just a quick attempt

at pushing somekind of envelope. Not that i'm against nudity,

or have a moral problem with t.v. violence - it's just that

the creator's of these shows are reaching for the low bar,

taking the easy way out. If you can't create anything other

than a 1 or 2 chord song and feel you need to 'spice up' the

lyrics a bit to make it edgy - please don't call it art.

[the_resonator]

i can respect that, and i think most people can,probably.

 

i mean, i can't speak for others, but my experience is taht people who tend to think in terms of "profanity" or whatever..in relation to religion..tend not to just feel as you do, but to also force their opinion by way of, for example...oh, i dunno...

 

hiding crazy FCC fine increases in defense bills...

 

--which means, not only do they feel that this word or that is morally wrong..they force others to abide by their religious-influenced decisions. Even if the others don't follow this or that religion.

 

iDo you see what i am saying? all media and art consumption is a choice-no one is forcing anyone to download or listen to a song, radio, or tele or movie..most you have to pay for, even.

[jchas]

Originally posted by the_resonator

i mean, i can't speak for others, but my experience is taht people who tend to think in terms of "profanity" or whatever..in relation to religion..tend not to just feel as you do, but to also force their opinion by way of, for example...oh, i dunno...

QUOTE]

 

I think there's a bit of a mis-conception atributed to most

religious people that when they say that something is wrong, or that you shouldn't do something, that they are trying to force

their opinion upon you. Stating an opinion, and also defending

it, is not the same as forcing it. I'm not saying that there aren't

those who don't constantly try to force their opinions on others,

but I think it's a pretty even mix of conservative and liberal

thinkers who tend to take their opinons a bit too seriously.

It's just fortunate that this country (I know, not JUST this

country) allows for someone to express themselves by swearing

up a storm and calling it art - but you can't take away the vast

majorities right to call it crap either.

I'm not trying to play the king of virtue here. I think Purity had

the best reasoning. If a particular word or phrase is needed

to punctuate a statement - go for it. it can really drive the point

home. But if your just too lazy and unimaginative to tell the

story without using all the swear words you know - don't be

surprised that most people find it tedious or it just plain SUCKS.

[Etcher]

I think I have an even simpler story to tell: I was raised not to swear, plain and simple. Sure, my parents swore when they got mad, but nothing real nasty, just "goddammit" and "TV swearing" kind of stuff. But all in all, swearing just wasn't a good thing in our house.

 

Now, I swear sometimes- everyone does. Drop a cup of juice, stub your toe, y'know, the usual stuff. What I DON'T get are the people who swear contantly while they talk. You know, just insert "{censored}in'" between any two syllables five or six times per sentence. Really makes you sound intelligent .

Even weirder is when they talk to ANYONE like that. I work in a store. Just the other day some guy comes up to me and says "dude, I can't {censored}in' find {censored}in Guns n' Roses." He wasn't angry or anything, he just wanted to know. I just kinda gave him a blank look and said "Oh, there over in there somewhere," and waved my hand in the general direction of the cds, and walked away. You can call me a snob, but whatever happened to common decency? Why would you need to say "{censored}in'" between every word? Why would you need to say ANYTHING between every word? To me, it's just plain stupid. Stupid and lazy.

 

Plus, in music, yes, I can stand a little. Hey, I'm a big fan of nine inch nails and the like. But swearing just to swear or because it's funny or to fill up space is just plain unimaginative. Can you really not think of a better word than "{censored}"?

 

I don't know, I suppose it's not that big of a deal. I just don't see the point to it in the first place. You can call it freedom of speach or whatever, I just think people should think more about what theyre saying. And who it offends, because it definately DOES offend people, and I don't think it's fair to then make fun of those people and say they "can't handle a few words" and stuff like that. They can. They'd just much rather hear something worthwhile.

[Sleepin' Deeper]

Originally posted by Etcher I think I have an even simpler story to tell: I was raised not to swear, plain and simple. Sure, my parents swore when they got mad, but nothing real nasty, just "goddammit" and "TV swearing" kind of stuff. But all in all, swearing just wasn't a good thing in our house. Now, I swear sometimes- everyone does. Drop a cup of juice, stub your toe, y'know, the usual stuff. What I DON'T get are the people who swear contantly while they talk. You know, just insert "{censored}in'" between any two syllables five or six times per sentence. Really makes you sound intelligent . Even weirder is when they talk to ANYONE like that. I work in a store. Just the other day some guy comes up to me and says "dude, I can't {censored}in' find {censored}in Guns n' Roses." He wasn't angry or anything, he just wanted to know. I just kinda gave him a blank look and said "Oh, there over in there somewhere," and waved my hand in the general direction of the cds, and walked away. You can call me a snob, but whatever happened to common decency? Why would you need to say "{censored}in'" between every word? Why would you need to say ANYTHING between every word? To me, it's just plain stupid. Stupid and lazy. Plus, in music, yes, I can stand a little. Hey, I'm a big fan of nine inch nails and the like. But swearing just to swear or because it's funny or to fill up space is just plain unimaginative. Can you really not think of a better word than "{censored}"? I don't know, I suppose it's not that big of a deal. I just don't see the point to it in the first place. You can call it freedom of speach or whatever, I just think people should think more about what theyre saying. And who it offends, because it definately DOES offend people, and I don't think it's fair to then make fun of those people and say they "can't handle a few words" and stuff like that. They can. They'd just much rather hear something worthwhile.

 

I feel offended by the above because to me, the whole text is really not that worthwhile!

 

I think using the "worth" or "value" as the basis of your argument is weak. If you see a funny lookin' dog and tell your friend about it, is that really worthwhile information? 80 % of the crap that us humans spew out of our mouths has no value what-so-ever. It's just the vocalisation of observations, senses and feelings.

 

Yes, it does sound stupid to me if someone says {censored} and {censored} between each word, as the guy with the CD you mentioned, but it doesn't OFFEND me ferrchrissakses!

 

It's kind of like if someone says to me: "You'rs stupid! or You're ugly!" that doesn't offend me one bit. I mean, why should it? I know what I look like in the mirror and don't really care what others think, just as little as I care about the linguistic prowess and form that others use.

 

"So {censored} you and {censored} it, jus' grab ma ass, take ma {censored} and suck it, suck it, suck it...."

 

- Eddie Murphy, RAW

[Etcher]

Well, I guess...

 

This isn't an arguement or anything.

 

But I suppose my view of swearing is that it's supposed to be offensive, and you don't say it (in public, at least) unless you want to be offensive. To say "you shouldn't be offended by a few words" is a moot point- I'll still be offended by them. Why? I don't know, it's just how I was raised. No big deal. And why do some people consider getting offended by things a bad thing? Being offended by stuff is just part of being human, just as being attracted to things or getting angry at things or being saddened by things. And every individual person will react to those things differently.

 

That's my 2 cents. Any more and I'd owe you some change:D

[the_resonator]

to be honest, i find it more annoying when people sound like this:

 

"well, he was like, ya know, all saying, ya know, like talkin trash about her and she was like, whateva ummm....then i was like, i know! yaknowwhatimsayin? knowwhatimean!"

 

but i can substitute the one for the other in the dialogue in my mind- and see where you are coming from. I also see the point about it offending some, and that being integral to the the relevancy of certain words.

[Sleepin' Deeper]

Originally posted by the_resonator to be honest, i find it more annoying when people sound like this: "well, he was like, ya know, all saying, ya know, like talkin trash about her and she was like, whateva ummm....then i was like, i know! yaknowwhatimsayin? knowwhatimean!" but i can substitute the one for the other in the dialogue in my mind- and see where you are coming from. I also see the point about it offending some, and that being integral to the the relevancy of certain words.

 

Word! I mean, very true that. I think the worst ones are people in New Zealand, Australia, and Britain who finish off every sentence with the word, "Yeah!"

THAT drives me nuts. Goes sumfin' like dis:

 

"So I was goin' to the match, yeah. And I saw this girl, yeah. She was damn hot too, yeah. So anyway, yeah, we were gonna spend the day......"

 

AAAAAARGH!

[AgtOrange]

Well, that's all just poor communication skills. That's irritating whether it uses profanity or not.

 

As far as profanity goes, they're just words. A sequence of phonic sounds to which humans have attached a meaning. What really puzzles me is some of these profane words have meanings that are identical to acceptable words. {censored} is the best example. Why are people offended by {censored}, but crap, poop, poo, feces, dung, etc are all acceptable? They're all the same thing, which supports the point that people are offended because they choose to be. They need to suck it up and deal with it. Insisting that others conform to their hangups crosses the line.