Members GigMan Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 Am currently eyeing up the following two mixers: - Mackie 1402 VLZ - Yamaha MG 16/4 The Mackie seems to be everywhere - and usually gets good reviews. This Yamaha mixer looks like a real value for the money, though - has more mic. inputs than the Mackie does and seems to be laid out just as nicely - and costs about $250 less! Anyone used this Yammie MG 16/4 mixin' board?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 I've heard great stuff about the Yamaha, other than the WALL WART! I have been looking at mixers, preferably with internal FX. I like the Mackie DFX, but they are a bit bulky. I would like to avoid a WALL WART if possible. Behringer has a couple of options out there, but people seem to turn their noses up to Behringer, in general. I've been struggling with the concept of adding a mixer to my rig. I have 3 keyboards (S90, Electo, NL2X) running stereo into Motion Sound KT80s. I have 3 inputs on each amp, which supports my rig. However, it is a drag to run these long cables 6x vs. having short cables to a mixer near the keyboards. Also, I have sporadic issues with the XLR out of the Motion Sounds and was wondering if I might get a better signal to noise ratio from a mixer XLR out to the board. In addition, I would like to have the flexibility to add other modules and a mixer would support this. Interesting topic. Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 21, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 Good to hear from you Eric - I do run my keys into a mixer for band gigs, currently I use a Rolls RM203x - http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-RLL%20RM203.html ...which is only 1U rack space. I put it into a lightweight SKB case - http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-SKB-XRACK4.html ...(which is 4U spaces), along with a Furman PL-Plus power conditioner - and voila! instant system (with 2 rack spaces empty for future expansion), to run to my JBL EON15 G2's... Actually, I usually just run the mono aux. send to one JBL cab as a stage monitor + run main outs to the band FOH - for certain band gigs. The reason I'm eyeing up the Yamaha MG16/4, however, is because I sometimes book my own gigs + bring a "big rig" (instead of the little Rolls mixer) - in a Raxxess ConvertaRack 10/6 - http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-RAX-C1006.html ...with a CD Plyr., effects unit, etc... - with enough mic. inputs and mixer channels to accomodate a small band set up. I originally just had a Mackie MS1202 (original vintage, NOT the VLZ-Pro) + then added a Samson PL-1602 as a sub-mixer for extra inputs - http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=63&brandID=2 (sometimes I play as a duo and run 2 keybds., a MIDI unit, 2 drum machines (we alternate), acoustic gtrs., mics., CD plyr. I actually have thought about selling the Samson PL1602, then remove the Mackie 1202 and keep aside as a spare + then install the Yam. MG16/4. Eric, let me know if you'd be interested - - Actually, on second thought I'd consider selling the Rolls and keeping the Samson as a "home rig" since it has 2 mic. inputs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toorglick Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 They seem to be well-regarded at Home-Recording.com. The preamps are supposed to be nice for the price, too. I think these have inserts on each channel that can be used for multi-tracking in a pinch. I thought I read somewhere that the paint they use was allegedly toxic. I think on the SOS forums, but it was a while ago. One thing I see people mention a lot with mixers is the wallwart. At this price range you're going to get a wallwart of some sort. But, my thing is that the wallwart, as far as a mixer is concerned, is not a bad thing at all. It keeps the transformer away from the signal paths. Even monster huge desks have separate power packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members oddbods finger Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 I had a MG 16/4 for a few months.It was OK but I wasn't convinced by it was the quietest mixer out there.There were also 1 or 2 other issues.Fixed hi gain on a couple of channels I seem to recall was one. I bought a Soundcraft ES to replace it, which I'm very happy with.A tad more expensive (it has 20 channels) but worth it in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 I have a 12/4 and I think it's a great mixer for the money. Also, with the 12/4 at least (and I would presume the 16/4 as well), it's not a WALL-WART... it's an inline transformer. toorglick made the point I was going to: external power supplies on mixers keep the 60Hz hum away from the channels... a good thing. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heroesforghosts Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 I also have the MX 12/4,and I think it's a real good,quiet mixer. I run a Samson PL 2404 mixer from it for my stereo keyboard hookups. I've been looking at the Yamaha 16/6 mixer to replace the 12/4,mainly because it has onboard effects. The 12/4 only has reverb. I have never had any problems with the 12/4,othere than running out of channels,hence the PL2404 that I use for the stereo keyboard connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 21, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 Thanks for the comments, thought, opinions, guys... Kiru - I believe you refer to what is known on the street as the the ole' lump-in-the-line transformer - ha ha! heroesforghosts (love that screen name, BTW - do you "Wish You Were Here" ?? ) - I see where you're coming from - in moving up to the the Yammie MG 16/6FX - http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-YAM-MG166FX.html ...looks pretty damn good for the money, plus effects are built-in. You also may want to scope out Alesis' multimix line - http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-ALE-MM12FXD.html http://www.alesis.com/products/multimix16fxd/index.html ...also looks promising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 21, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 Other mid-size mixers (from the Mackie camp) w/effects that look interesting: http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-MAC-DFX12.html http://www.americanmusical.com/item--i-MAC-CFX16-FRS.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 Kiru and herosforghosts...how editable are the effects...or is there a delay program that gives you just a single slapback? That's what I like best on vocals live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 21, 2004 Members Share Posted August 21, 2004 The MG 12/4 and 16/4 don't have effects built in, though there are the 12/4FX and the 16/6FX mixers, which I don't have experience with. Gigman: Yup, and it's a pretty big line-lump too. You could probably swing it around with the cords that come out of it and knock someone out, then plug it back in and have it work fine (good for those rowdier gigs ). Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 22, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru Gigman: Yup, and it's a pretty big line-lump too. You could probably swing it around with the cords that come out of it and knock someone out, then plug it back in and have it work fine (good for those rowdier gigs ). Kiru Right - Like if I ever find myself pretending to be the "Good Ole Boys" and playing on a stage behind chicken wire - a la The Blues Brothers movie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru Gigman: Yup, and it's a pretty big line-lump too. You could probably swing it around with the cords that come out of it and knock someone out, then plug it back in and have it work fine (good for those rowdier gigs ). Kiru I've already got one of these in my SKB rack for the Quadraverb II...they've been nicknamed the Quadraverb Brick. They're impossible to secure if you're gigging with it all the time ...Velcro dosn't work for long. I finally wired it in with baling wire but it still wiggles out after awhile. If that's what the Yamaha MG mixers use it rules them out for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members toorglick Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 In my racks if I have a unit with a line lump I will use thick cable ties on both cords (if there's a cord going into either side of the unit). The cable ties go through hoops which are either screwed in or Super-Glues to the side of the inside of the rack case. The lumps are always secure that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 22, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 Yeah - Although the "lump in the line" transformers or the "wall-wart" AC adapters are a pain, I don't think they'll be the determining factor as to what company (Yamaha, Mackie, Alesis, Behringer [god forbid! , etc...) gets my hard-earned mixer dollars. One strike against the Yamaha MG16/6 + 16/6FX series units - they only have 1 fader for the Stereo Main Outs. My friend (a guitar player, no less! ) pointed that out to me: if you were using the Yamaha MG16/6 + 16/6FX live on a gig and were running the PA in mono (the "mono vs. stereo" debate will have to rage on some other time... ) - you have no individual control over your two different speakers. Whereas, on the Mackie 1402VLZ Pro, there is an actual slider for Left and one for Right - so if you're running two speakers for a duo act, say, but in mono, the "Left" Main Out could be your "FOH" speaker (out in front of you) and the "Right" Main Out could be your "Monitor" (stick it somewhere behind you). In that fashion, you hear exactly the same signal from both spkrs. (which is good - that way, you hear what the audience hears), yet you maintain volume control indiviually over each cabinet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by GigMan Behringer [god forbid! , etc...) Seriously... not even God forbid, man, just common sense forbid.... lol Originally posted by GigMan One strike against the Yamaha MG16/6 + 16/6FX series units - they only have 1 fader for the Stereo Main Outs. My friend (a guitar player, no less! ) pointed that out to me: if you were using the Yamaha MG16/6 + 16/6FX live on a gig and were running the PA in mono (the "mono vs. stereo" debate will have to rage on some other time... ) - you have no individual control over your two different speakers. Whereas, on the Mackie 1402VLZ Pro, there is an actual slider for Left and one for Right - so if you're running two speakers for a duo act, say, but in mono, the "Left" Main Out could be your "FOH" speaker (out in front of you) and the "Right" Main Out could be your "Monitor" (stick it somewhere behind you). In that fashion, you hear exactly the same signal from both spkrs. (which is good - that way, you hear what the audience hears), yet you maintain volume control indiviually over each cabinet. There's a separate control-room out. It's only 1/4" out, not XLR, but it does have a separate volume control. The only downside is that when you have it set to Stereo Bus in, it's post-main-volume-fader, so you'd want to send the louder signal out the main bus, and the softer signal out the CR bus, and remember if you adjust the main volume controller, you'll need to adjust the CR knob accordingly. Or, if your setup's not that complicated, you can always send everything to the 1-2 group bus too and use that as your monitor send. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 I use the MG 16/6 MG FX. I like it. It sounds very nice. Downside - it's like all Yamaha stuff I've used. It's hard to figure out how to use. Up side - it sounds fantastic. It gives you more for the money than a Mackie - slides for instance. The pre-amps are pristine and the on-board effects are gorgeous for vocals & guitars. It's the only reverb I need for guitars or vocals. Here are two things I mixed on it recently: (tracked & sequenced w/on-board fx for guitars & drums) "For Ha My" (live mix-no double-tracking)"Bossa Valentine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eric Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 Has anyone checked out the Alesis MultiMix mixers? They make a 6 channel for $99 and 8 channel for $129, both with built-in FX. One glaring omission I saw was no XLR outs.... Regards,Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted August 22, 2004 Members Share Posted August 22, 2004 I recommend the little $99 Alesis. I own one. I let my son use it because he likes the effects for his guitar. It's a super little sub-mixer & portable mixer for gigs. The on-board FX are the same as their Microverb. Excellent value for the money. I wouldn't use it for a recording mixer. No slides. Pre-amps are low quality. That doesn't matter much for new Romplers, but it matters a lot for acoustic instruments. But it's a dandy little portable mixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 23, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru Seriously... not even God forbid, man, just common sense forbid.... lol There's a separate control-room out. It's only 1/4" out, not XLR, but it does have a separate volume control. The only downside is that when you have it set to Stereo Bus in, it's post-main-volume-fader, so you'd want to send the louder signal out the main bus, and the softer signal out the CR bus, and remember if you adjust the main volume controller, you'll need to adjust the CR knob accordingly. Or, if your setup's not that complicated, you can always send everything to the 1-2 group bus too and use that as your monitor send. Kiru Ok, so how do you send everything to the 1-2 group bus? I downloaded the manual from Yammie's site, BTW, but still am not sure how I'd accomplish this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 23, 2004 Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by GigMan Ok, so how do you send everything to the 1-2 group bus? I downloaded the manual from Yammie's site, BTW, but still am not sure how I'd accomplish this... Depress the 1-2 buttons on all of the input channels that you're using. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 23, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by Kirumamoru Depress the 1-2 buttons on all of the input channels that you're using. Kiru Oh, right - duh... I wonder, would that be pre-fader or post though? 'Cause it would only be worthwhile as a config. for monitors (in a live setup) if it was pre- so that you can have completely separate volume + control of the Mains vs. the Monitors (if you wanted to run that way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 23, 2004 Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by GigMan Oh, right - duh... I wonder, would that be pre-fader or post though? 'Cause it would only be worthwhile as a config. for monitors (in a live setup) if it was pre- so that you can have completely separate volume + control of the Mains vs. the Monitors (if you wanted to run that way). Um... I'm not sure what you mean. The signal sent to the 1-2 bus is postfader (individual channel fader, I mean), just like the signal sent to the Stereo bus, but the stereo bus and 1-2 bus have different volume controls. So you would want to set the relative levels of your synths/microphones with the sliders for each channel, and then the absolute total volume separately for the 1-2 outs and the Stereo outs with the 1-2 and Stereo faders. Each one would have the same relative levels, but you can turn down your monitors without affecting the house level. Also, you can send channels prefader to the control room out, if you want. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GigMan Posted August 23, 2004 Author Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Ok, I follow that -So if I had everything running in mono, was using two speakers + wanted to hear the effects, EQ and everything else the same one both spkrs. but wanted to control the volume separately for each spkr. - that would be the way to do it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kirumamoru Posted August 23, 2004 Members Share Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by GigMan So if I had everything running in mono, was using two speakers + wanted to hear the effects, EQ and everything else the same one both spkrs. but wanted to control the volume separately for each spkr. - that would be the way to do it, right? Yup, I think so. Or, you could do like we do at school, which is to use one of the auxiliary sends. The first one has a pre/post switch and the second on is always postfader. You could attach your monitor to an aux send if you were so inclined. Kiru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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