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FuzzBob

The "Aaaaaah" sound in New Order's "Blue Monday": is that a Fairlight CMI?

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Just noticed this thread, btw.

 

Coincidentially, I just bought the New Order "International" greatest hits album last night at Best Buy and also coincidentally the first song I listened to was "Blue Monday". Weiiiird.... :p

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Kurzweil's VAST can be pretty apparent.

 

Don't know much about specific Kurzweil sounds.....can you clarify this--maybe an example in a popular song?

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I refuse to believe anybody could identify a bass drum, hi hat, or snare coming from an Akai v Roland v Yamaha v Fairlight or whatever sampler... :rolleyes:

 

I've never been misty eyed for old samplers... the stuff we have nowadays is much superior in every respect... I had a few Roland samplers in the mid to late 80s... I don't miss them... horrible things in retrospect...

 

now old analogues.... well tahts a different matter.. :)

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Originally posted by orangefunk

I refuse to believe anybody could identify a bass drum, hi hat, or snare coming from an Akai v Roland v Yamaha v Fairlight or whatever sampler...
:rolleyes:

 

OK, then refuse to believe it. But know that your belief is not in line with reality. ;)

 

Originally posted by orangefunk

I've never been misty eyed for old samplers... the stuff we have nowadays is much superior in every respect... I had a few Roland samplers in the mid to late 80s... I don't miss them... horrible things in retrospect...

 

Superior in terms of spec, and in terms of pure fidelity, sure, and perhaps synthesis options too.

 

But sound is quite subjective. Clearly, you do not miss it...but I think some of the mid-80s samplers with analog VCF sound awesome...SCI Prophet 2000, E-mu Emulator II, Korg DSS-1, E-mu Emulator III...good stuff to me!

 

And in their day, the Rolands (I assume you mean S-330/S-550) were quite well-respected. I think they can even be quite usable today, esp. given the price. A S-330 on the cheap would be lovely for some drum duties, and it would have a sound not available from modern solutions, hard or soft.

 

But you know, this is something perhaps separate, but I miss those time-period samplers for another reason:

 

Because of issues of storage media (or lack thereof), factory libraries (or lack thereof), lack of internet communications, and lack of data to "import," many of the samplers of that time were actually used to sample!!! :eek:;)

 

What I mean is this: people would make their own multi-samples, and do the necessary trimming, looping, and mapping. Hard work, yes, but it pays off in having a unique sound that is yours alone. With the availability of libraries these days, and also what I see as a leaning toward speed-of-production and convenience over potential in sound, it seems very few people actually do any of their own (multi)sampling any more.

 

For that matter, I find the short-loop spectral samples of the 80s, played from a machine with variable clock and resistor gate-array D/A, to have a special sound, a sound that most certainly has artifacts, but as a result, a sound with character...something sadly missing from modern-day multi-GB libraries and alias-free interpolated transposition.

 

But hey, that is reflective of my love of electronic instruments for what is clearly electronic sound. Recreating something "real," like a piano, on a synth/sampler is boring and beside-the-point to me, so that is my bias in this. ;)

 

 

cheers,

aeon

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Originally posted by aeon

For that matter, I find the short-loop spectral samples of the 80s, played from a machine with variable clock and resistor gate-array D/A, to have a special sound, a sound that most certainly has artifacts, but as a result, a sound with character...something sadly missing from modern-day multi-GB libraries and alias-free interpolated transposition.

 

reclocking a D/A _always_ sounds better than digital interpolation. i don't think there's any argument about that.

 

analogue filters are much better than digital filters.

 

however, i use an Akai S5000 instead of an EIII because i like the interface better. it's easier for sampling. i use all of my own samples, with the exception of the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD-ROM.

 

another reason i use it is because of the enormous storage possibilities.

 

i wish i had the luxury to make music with the old samplers, but i have to devote that energy to other vintage instruments ... like my Hammond.

 

anyway, i just wanted to say i really wish that you could buy a 24 bit 64 second audio delay that worked like the old delays where the A/D/D/A circuit was reclocked from a VCO controlled from the front panel or a rear jack ... and a restart control with a trigger input like my RDS units had.

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Originally posted by suitandtieguy

reclocking a D/A _always_ sounds better than digital interpolation. i don't think there's any argument about that.

 

OK, I'll offer 2 arguments then! ;)

 

1. Reclocking a D/A can lead to alias and clock noise in your signal if your process filtering is not up to par, and that was clearly the case on more than a few 70s/80s samplers. That said, some may find that sound pleasing (I do), and so it could be better, yes.

 

2. Digital interpolation can be perfect given the context of the sampling rate. That said, it may take massive amounts of CPU power, or have to be done in non-real-time.

 

But anyway, I wonder why all makers went toward interpolation as time went on if reclocking always sounds better?

 

Originally posted by suitandtieguy

analogue filters are much better than digital filters.

 

Again, depends on context. For some things, analog all the way. For others, analog would be totally inappropriate, not to mention physically impossible.

 

Originally posted by suitandtieguy

however, i use an Akai S5000 instead of an EIII because i like the interface better. it's easier for sampling. i use all of my own samples, with the exception of the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD-ROM. another reason i use it is because of the enormous storage possibilities.

 

Fair calls on both points, but it cannot be denied, an EIII can sound stellar! In the studio anyway...I would never take one of those out live, whereas an Akai S5K can deliver in that context.

 

And big ups to you for using your own samples. Damn, man, you must not want to sound like a clone! :D

 

Originally posted by suitandtieguy

anyway, i just wanted to say i really wish that you could buy a 24 bit 64 second audio delay that worked like the old delays where the A/D/D/A circuit was reclocked from a VCO controlled from the front panel or a rear jack ... and a restart control with a trigger input like my RDS units had.

 

Agreed! That said, the Line6 Echo Pro is like that in some ways (don't laugh, I'm not kidding!).

 

And either you did not see my previous question in another thread, or I did not catch your answer, but what is the music scene in Peoria like these days?

 

I was there 1981-1985, and it wasn't too friendly if you were into the idea of pop music done with a synth and drumbox! :mad:

 

 

cheers,

aeon

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Originally posted by clusterchord

have you ever heard pure samples before they were loaded into Fairlight, to be able to make the statement you did?

Good call. I'm kind of wondering what that woman's vocal tract looked like who did the Sararr sound :D.

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Was that a Fairlight used for the vocal-y background sound in Wham's 1984 hit 'Careless Whisper'?

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Originally posted by midi

Was that a Fairlight used for the vocal-y background sound in Wham's 1984 hit 'Careless Whisper'?

 

Yep. I understand JJ Jeczalik sampled George Michael and then later used it on stuff he did with Trevor Horn (it can be heard on a few tracks of Welcome to the Pleasuredome)

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I distinctly remember reading a magazine article on New Order back in the '80s and Bernard Sumner said their main analog synth was a Voyetra.

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I didn't read every comment thoroughly but back to the original question.. but i did some research on this and while yes my understanding is that they sampled Kraftwerk, the original source for this sound was from one of these...

 

 

Vako Orchestration.. amazing device.. and brilliant.. using records as the actual medium to play samples from?! brilliant.. but i'm sure they were not much better if better than the mechanically challenged mellotrons.. anyway I just wanted to put that out there..

Edited by part12studios

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https://www.soundonsound.com/people/recreating-new-orders-blue-monday-live

 

A worthy read and everything you need to know!

 

 

From the (excellent) linked article in SOS:

 

"The vocal choir part on 'Blue Monday' was sampled, and it was probably one of the first instances of someone sampling something from someone else's record. New Order originally used an Emulator II to play their samples live, but a lot of the time the Emulators wouldn't load up so the roadie would have to hit one of the legs with a hammer to start it working again — it was that kind of technology! So Steve had that part loaded up into his Kurzweil K2500."

 

(Emphasis added)

 

I wonder what record they sampled the part from originally?

 

 

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Now they use a Fantom X.

Originally it was an Emulator II. Similar sound was the Wave 2.2 choir or Prophet VS voices

Edited by Music Bird
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The 'aah' vocal sound on the recording is actually a sample of karftwerk's 'Uranium'  which can be found here 

 

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1 hour ago, Paolo Di Nicolantonio said:

Just a synth-nerdy comment here (sorry!), I think it was sampled on the original Emulator I, not the Emulator II (Blue Monday was recorded in '82, while the Emulator II came in '84)

That makes sense Paolo... the year isn't correct for the EII, but the EI was available at the time. 

I think the EII was also a more stable system too, wasn't it? If there were regular problems with the sampler that they complained about, that seems like it would be more consistent with the earlier model too. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/24/2020 at 12:01 PM, Phil O'Keefe said:

That makes sense Paolo... the year isn't correct for the EII, but the EI was available at the time. 

I think the EII was also a more stable system too, wasn't it? If there were regular problems with the sampler that they complained about, that seems like it would be more consistent with the earlier model too. 

 

Hi, Phil, yes, I have both, and I know it's a personal anecdote, but personally, I had more problems with the Emulator I than the II over the years. They are both old now, but the II is a quite solid performer. Btw if anybody's interested, a few years ago I sampled the Uranium song in the Emulator I, the result is terrible 😄 as I made that video in half an hour, but it shows the sampling process on the Emulator I

 

Edited by Paolo Di Nicolantonio
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23 hours ago, Paolo Di Nicolantonio said:

Hi, Phil, yes, I have both, and I know it's a personal anecdote, but personally, I had more problems with the Emulator I than the II over the years. They are both old now, but the II is a quite solid performer. Btw if anybody's interested, a few years ago I sampled the Uranium song in the Emulator I, the result is terrible 😄 as I made that video in half an hour, but it shows the sampling process on the Emulator I

 

Cool video Paolo! :philthumb:

I remember when the Emulator first came out and getting a one-on-one demo of it in a local music store. I was absolutely blown away with its capabilities, which of course are extremely limited by today's standards. 

I never did get an EI or EII, but I did eventually buy an ESI-32, which is basically an EIII in a rack. I still have it, but I need to replace the screen (or backlight it) since it's grown too dim to read. 

 

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