Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I just wanted everyone to know about a bunk deal I had with user jutsin. Name Justin Pool on Nov 2nd 2009. The purchase was for a 2000 les paul classic red with blkouts.You may have noticed I recently put it up for sell /trade untill I learned my issue was not fixed......please see below: My issues are 1st it is not in "mint" condition as stated to me may times in PM's. It is in very good shape but he said it was perfect. I got the guitar and noticed right off there was 2 large scuffs across the back. In his words the back of the guitar is dead mint. Ok its not too bad I might be able to buff them out.....no problem. 2nd was I got ready to play it and it has strap lock strap holders installed but no part too hook to a strap....I asked him if he had the originals and his reply was "Man everybody uses strap locks so I assumed you wanted those instead". OK........no big deal again could you please send me the right ones..... 3rd. The setup was horrible with buzz. I do a quick setup and no luck....I let him know and he tells me the guitar was perfect when it left. I figured give it some time because it came from a different climate. Eventually I ended up taking it to a local luthier for setup. All along this whole time he kept telling me he could not refund any of the money cause he dont have anything left. I get it setup and it seems to be better so I am hoping for the best. I played it for a few days and it seemed to play very well......ok cool in the clear!!!!! I end up finding an amp I wanted and made a deal with another forumite for a amp he had plus cash. I get the guitar ready for him and check everything out and the last 3 strings will not intonate. I send tons of Pms through this whole deal and he is ignoring me. The luthier and I both agree it needs a new bridge as the saddles are not grooved in the middle I cannot flip them to gain enough to intonate. It also has a loose saddle spring that rattles when not plugged in. I continue to send messages with no reply. I then did a dispute with paypal (hoping to at least get enough for it to be fixed or a full refund) with them telling me a couple days later they will not help. I refunded the (other guy with amp+$) buyers money because Im not a peice of {censored} like (justin)him. I basicaly kissed his A$$ on a message and he replies he felt betrayed that I did a dispute and that he will find a bridge and send it to me. What?????? I asked nicely please just refund the $50 something dollars so that I get the right one.....Im not trusting him the way the action came on this guitar. I sent him links to the right bridge with price.......and still no answer. I check his activity and he has been online @ HC....and I sent him many emails. I also let him know (before hand) it mattered if the pick guard was ever installed. It was at one time cause the holes are there.....not too big of a deal but he told me gibsons come like that from the factory.....BS He is ignoring me....I paid TOP dollar for this guitar even in this economy. Price paid was $1515.00 for a classic. So I am out $55 for a bridge as well. I told him over and over please just give me enough for a new bridge its only $55 and I will be totaly happy. This guitar would be super awesome. I record alot so being able to intonate it is a must........ I might be being picky here I dont know...I just feel in my heart that if you sell a guitar like this for TOP dollar it should be in semi-pro condition....{censored} I have schecters that are in tip-top shape. Anyway Rant is over have a good weekend everybody!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRAAJR Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Man I really wanted this Classic and almost made a stupid trade for it....glad I didnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Man I really wanted this Classic and almost made a stupid trade for it....glad I didnt Not sure if the offer was to me, but if it would have been I would of gave you the $50 for a bridge and it would be sweet!!!!!!!!!!To me this does not taint the guitar....it is only needing a bridge and it would be my butter finger axe....one of the best playing lesters Ive played ...its the priciple some people dont think they have to provide some kind of customer service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Customer service? He's a private seller, not a guitar shop. If he didn't know it wouldn't intonate properly, how could he inform you of that? You are being a bit too picky. And you are paying $70 for a setup? Jesus Christ man, learn how to do that yourself. You can always count on a new to you guitar needing a setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sinster Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I hope he gets his ass kicked.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRAAJR Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Customer service? He's a private seller, not a guitar shop.If he didn't know it wouldn't intonate properly, how could he inform you of that? You are being a bit too picky. And you are paying $70 for a setup? Jesus Christ man, learn how to do that yourself.You can always count on a new to you guitar needing a setup. I agree with the intonation part. I am sure I have sold guitars that were not setup properly and wildly un-intonated. I guess I just assume everyone can setup a guitar like I can. The part that sucks is the "scuffs" on the guitar that were described as mint. That is not cool. The other part just comes with buying a guitar from a person and not a shop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 That's why I think it's up to the buyer to get good pics and a very detailed description from the seller as to the condition. What one person calls mint another person calls good. The buyer has a responsibility to check out what he's buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Customer service? He's a private seller, not a guitar shop.If he didn't know it wouldn't intonate properly, how could he inform you of that? You are being a bit too picky. And you are paying $70 for a setup? Jesus Christ man, learn how to do that yourself.You can always count on a new to you guitar needing a setup. I know how to setup a guitar Ive benn playing for 25 years or so. If u read what I said...I stated that I tried to do it myself but could not get it done. I live in a small town and there is only one guy here to choose from so blow me!! Your missing the point if You buy a guitar for this kind of money it should be playable. When people say the best guitar Ive ever played and {censored} like that.....come on. I am not upset he didnt tell me about the bridge before hand...but I would of....this is just me now.....would get the guy a bridgel. If you bought it I bet you would want a bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I know how to setup a guitar Ive benn playing for 25 years or so. If u read what I said...I stated that I tried to do it myself but could not get it done.I live in a small town and there is only one guy here to choose from so blow me!!Your missing the point if You buy a guitar for this kind of money it should be playable. When people say the best guitar Ive ever played and {censored} like that.....come on. I am not upset he didnt tell me about the bridge before hand...but I would of....this is just me now.....would get the guy a bridgel.If you bought it I bet you would want a bridge. I've bought brand new guitars that were unplayable straight from the factory. You must know that different places mean different effects to guitars. So if it was playable when the seller had it, I'm sure it wouldn't be when you got it and it had traveled across country. And if you knew how to setup guitars, you would have done it. You do or do not. It's one of those things in life that is black and white. As for the bridge, if he didn't know it was bad, how can he tell you that? Chalk it up as knowledge and from now on only trade when you can see the guitar first if you are going to be that picky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRAAJR Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I think you may underestimate ones own ignorance when it comes to nice guitars and how they play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 That's why I think it's up to the buyer to get good pics and a very detailed description from the seller as to the condition. What one person calls mint another person calls good. The buyer has a responsibility to check out what he's buying. From his impressive photos you cannot see it in the photos....most guys say "there are scuffs but they will not show up in photos". Im having a hard time understanding how you think its soley the buyers responsibility for these kinds of things....IMHO sellers should know what they are selling as well..........my words customer service might have made you read me wrong. I should have said if he was a "cool" guy he should get me a damn bridge. How do know he didnt know about it anyway....maybe he bought it and wanted to pawn it off on some other dude. I chose to refund my buyers money cause Im hope that most buyers are fair as well.....sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MRAAJR Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 The scuffs are not excusable...period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 From his impressive photos you cannot see it in the photos....most guys say "there are scuffs but they will not show up in photos".Im having a hard time understanding how you think its soley the buyers responsibility for these kinds of things....IMHO sellers should know what they are selling as well..........my words customer service might have made you read me wrong. I should have said if he was a "cool" guy he should get me a damn bridge. How do know he didnt know about it anyway....maybe he bought it and wanted to pawn it off on some other dude.I chose to refund my buyers money cause Im hope that most buyers are fair as well.....sheesh. You are right, most people will disclose everything but I think your problem lies in the fact that you think everyone should have the same morals as you do. I'm saying they don't and the buyer needs to make sure he knows exactly what he's getting. If the "scuffs" won't show up on a photo, they must not be that bad. I never said it was solely the buyers responsibility but see my first paragraph. Never assume that the seller has the utmost of integrity when it comes to this. I've done tons of trades and have learned this over time. If you chose to refund money as a way to resolve an issue with a buyer, that's great. Again, don't expect others to respond the same way you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I've bought brand new guitars that were unplayable straight from the factory. You must know that different places mean different effects to guitars. So if it was playable when the seller had it, I'm sure it wouldn't be when you got it and it had traveled across country. And if you knew how to setup guitars, you would have done it. You do or do not. It's one of those things in life that is black and white. As for the bridge, if he didn't know it was bad, how can he tell you that? Chalk it up as knowledge and from now on only trade when you can see the guitar first if you are going to be that picky. And besides if this place is turning out like this with an attitude that we should just take it in the ass then Fu%& this place I will not buy here anymore. Ive had some cool deals here and If there is not some kind of standard then whats the point.:blah: I think ur just being an internet smart ass!!!!! And Im not stupid I know guitars need setup most times Im not asking him for a refund of the setup cost.....I just want a bridge that I can put on my self and be done with it.........:poke: I dont feel like I should just have to live and learn.....if he didnt know it was bad he is the dumbass not me.....I found the problem:facepalm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 The scuffs are not excusable...period. I would like to see pics before I hung anyone out to dry like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 And besides if this place is turning out like this with an attitude that we should just take it in the ass then Fu%& this place I will not buy here anymore. Ive had some cool deals here and If there is not some kind of standard then whats the point. :blah: I think ur just being an internet smart ass!!!!! And Im not stupid I know guitars need setup most times Im not asking him for a refund of the setup cost.....I just want a bridge that I can put on my self and be done with it.........:poke: I dont feel like I should just have to live and learn.....if he didnt know it was bad he is the dumbass not me.....I found the problem:facepalm: You cannot disclose what you don't know about.And if you are going to freak out this bad and {censored} someone up the ass like this over a setup and "scuffs" that won't show up in pics that you have no business trading here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodyjunior Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 jutsin misrepresented the guitar he was selling... period. If it really is a hardware problem, jutsin would have known about tuning stability issues - unless his playing and his ear are just that bad... That said, chrometoyz isn't unreasonable in his request to make this situation "right." Having a skill to setup/intonate a guitar is one thing, but when the problem is beyond tweaking and its a hardware problem - that does go back to the seller responsibility to disclose it. Its not too much to ask to pay for a new bridge - especially when he could/probably should ask for more due to the scratches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 You cannot disclose what you don't know about.And if you are going to freak out this bad and {censored} someone up the ass like this over a setup and "scuffs" that won't show up in pics that you have no business trading here at all. Dude how in the world did you turn this to Im screwing someone.....my god your kidding me right. I have pleaded with the guy to respond and he is ignoring me. This is the only reason I brought it here. There was one on ebay at the same time as this and I told him I would rather have his(justins) cause the pick guard looked like it was never installed....I could not tell in the photos. I got it and it was. Did he not know this as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 jutsin misrepresented the guitar he was selling... period. Maybe and maybe not. You think he did. The OP thinks he did. Maybe to Justin, it was mint. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 jutsin misrepresented the guitar he was selling... period.If it really is a hardware problem, jutsin would have known about tuning stability issues - unless his playing and his ear are just that bad... That said, chrometoyz isn't unreasonable in his request to make this situation "right." Having a skill to setup/intonate a guitar is one thing, but when the problem is beyond tweaking and its a hardware problem - that does go back to the seller responsibility to disclose it. Its not too much to ask to pay for a new bridge - especially when he could/probably should ask for more due to the scratches. My god thank you for explaining it exactly the way I see it........the saddles are maxed out and it is still sharp on 3 strings. The others are close as well. The spring cable that holds the saddles down is also losse and buzzing someone messed with it!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 Dude how in the world did you turn this to Im screwing someone.....my god your kidding me right. I have pleaded with the guy to respond and he is ignoring me. This is the only reason I brought it here.There was one on ebay at the same time as this and I told him I would rather have his(justins) cause the pick guard looked like it was never installed....I could not tell in the photos. I got it and it was. Did he not know this as well? OK, that might have been a bit harsh. Let me rephrase that. I don't think you are screwing anyone but I'm not a big fan of dragging people through the mud unless there is a very good reason. And in my opinion, there is not really one here. I can understand being upset that the guitar you paid good money for was not in the condition that you expected it. That sucks. I've had a few trades that I had to put money into before they were playable. I just chalk that up to the business of trading without seeing the guitar first. Like I said, one persons mint is anothers good. Who is right? Doesn't really matter. You need a "meeting of the minds" as it were and that is very hard when trading over the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanFTWL Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 I agree that he should've gotten you a bridge, and told you about it in the first place even more so. If something's wrong with a guitar I'm trying to sell, I go out of my way to make sure I get it right, and if I can't, then include that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members chrometoyz Posted November 27, 2009 Author Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 OK, that might have been a bit harsh. Let me rephrase that.I don't think you are screwing anyone but I'm not a big fan of dragging people through the mud unless there is a very good reason. And in my opinion, there is not really one here. I can understand being upset that the guitar you paid good money for was not in the condition that you expected it. That sucks. I've had a few trades that I had to put money into before they were playable. I just chalk that up to the business of trading without seeing the guitar first. Like I said, one persons mint is anothers good. Who is right? Doesn't really matter. You need a "meeting of the minds" as it were and that is very hard when trading over the internet. Sorry I didnt mean to get so heated about it either. I just simply disagree that we should just accept this here ,because I love trading here. I did not want to bring it here...I have tried to ask him everyway possible to even the score a little.. I told him his price was a tad high because the forum was full of LP's at the time. He assured me all was great so I plungged and spent the extra mile for the guitar cause its beautiful. If he would of helped me with the bridge I would be here whining...cause its great other than that. I got over the couple dings and scratches.......the bridge is hard for me to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members woodyjunior Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 And in my opinion, there is not really one here. I can understand being upset that the guitar you paid good money for was not in the condition that you expected it. That sucks. I've had a few trades that I had to put money into before they were playable. I just chalk that up to the business of trading without seeing the guitar first. Like I said, one persons mint is anothers good. Who is right? Doesn't really matter. You need a "meeting of the minds" as it were and that is very hard when trading over the internet. Nobody likes a taddle-tale. But if chrometoyz has been trying to contact jutsin and there is no response or acknowledgement of the greivance, then he should call him out on it to the community. By doing so, he's looking out for the well-being of anyone who could potentially do a deal with jutsin. If jutsin's that bad at judging the condition of a high-end guitar, then I'd like to know about it if I'm considering a deal with him. chromtoyz is not necessarily defaming him, just describing a bad deal from his perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bengal Posted November 27, 2009 Members Share Posted November 27, 2009 And I'm also having a hard time understanding what was wrong with the bridge besides the saddles being groved wrong (which Gibson is notorious for these days). Loose saddle spring on a tune o matic? Spring cable that holds the saddles down? Can you explain that? Seems like all you might have needed was just 3 new saddles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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