Keyboard aftertouch....is it necessary?

[Ryst]

I am selling my Korg Triton and will be moving to a 61 key controller to control soft synths like Kontakt, EWQLSO Gold, Ableton Live.....I notice that most midi controllers from M-Audio, Evolution, Novation and Edirol do not offer aftertouch. So does that mean that most people don't use this feature or demand it from manufacturers? the only relatively cheap controller I have found that has aftertouch is this:

 

CME UF6:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UF6/

 

 

So do you guys use aftertouch a lot? Is it necessary? Something you can't live without? Or should I really worry about it?

[ChipCurtis]

It depends on whether you like or use this feature. I can't tell you whether or not you'll need it because I don't know what your needs are, you have to be a little more specific about the kind of music you play, and whether you're strictly studio or also a live player. The cheaper controllers don't have it for obvious reasons (cost). As for myself, I love it and use it all the time, it's particularly great for live performances where much of the time you have both hands on keyboards and no free hands to tweak knobs; you can assign cutoff or modulation to the aftertouch, and controll it that way.

[Ed A.]

After years of insisting on aftertouch in keyboards, I've realized that it is something that I hardly ever use. In fact, it gets annoying sometimes. I have a habit of expressively pressing down on the keyboard when I really get into a solo and it occasionally activates the aftertouch when I don't want it to. Even when I do use it, I could just as easily use the mod wheel, expression pedal or another controller knob/slider to apply modulation instead.

[jchas]

As ChipCurtis said - it's a matter of what you need. It sounds like you will mostly be using it to control synth sounds. I find it typically easier to use the wheels to do my changes, but if your hands are full you can't. I do a lot more acoustic instrument emulations than synth stuff and find it indispensable with brass and string parts. It can give the part a more natural or human feel.

[Khazul]

 

Originally posted by Ryst I notice that most midi controllers from M-Audio, Evolution, Novation and Edirol do not offer aftertouch. .... So do you guys use aftertouch a lot? Is it necessary? Something you can't live without? Or should I really worry about it?

 

 

 

Controllers from Novation DO offer aftertouch (channel pressure only). Actually its quite a decent expressive aftertouch with a decent amount travel in it.

 

Of all the controllers around at the moment, I personally rate Novation Remote series (and the new SL series assuming keys are same as old remote) as the best for synths.

 

CME have a new controller family out (now/soon?) which is well worth looking at. Novation Remote SL 61 has been annouced as well which I also expect to be a nice controller to use.

 

 

Personally - I do use aftertouch alot, its well suited to less precise and quite rapid manual modulations, more so than say a mod wheel or pedal. It also feels like a very natural way to apply modulation, especially if you play a stringed instrument as well.

 

I wouldnt buy a keyboard now that didnt at least support channel pressure.

 

Theres another type of aftertouch called poly pressure - I think its quite rare in keyboards and synths, but quite common in drum pads and drum sound module.

 

The difference is basically channel pressure applies the mod to all voices on the channel, whereas poly pressure applies it independently for each note. The two are not compatible. A for eg on a midi drum kit would be choking a cymbal. You just want to affect the cymbal sound, not any other sounds.

[triton76]

Ryst,

I just got a Novation X Station 61 w/ aftertouch after looking at the Edirol and CME etc. I spent more money than I intended but I'm glad I did. I love the synth, the effects, the keyboard and of course aftertouch. I use aftertouch to bring in the leslie effect on my organ sounds. Also for vibrato on leads, to change filter freq., and increase volume etc. I had to have aftertouch. The X Station has a cool X-Y pad on the left that can do different things. On the Novation synth it mainly controls cutoff and resonance. It is cool to fiddle with.

[DmitryKo]

Channel aftertouch (AKA monophonic key pressure) is very nice feature for lead analog sounds because you can control the timbre without dedicating your other hand to knobs or modwheel/joystick (or you can free it to do some different modulation). It's not as useful for chords though because the behaviour is largely undefined in this case, so it's rather hard to get the desired result (that's where polyphonic aftertouch would have been better, too bad no modern harware synth or keyboard transmits it or can use it as a modulation source, to my knowledge).

 

I don't know much about softsynths, but many programs in the Triton LE and Motif ES have another 'copy' source, like the wheel/joystick or ribbon contoller, bound to the same destination as the channel aftertouch, so if playing with only one hand is not your top priority you can probably do fine without aftertouch. Give it a try though before you decide though.

 

 

Mono pressure would also be useful for solo acoustic sounds and actually it's the way 'keyboard-only' banks for Yamaha's virtual acoustic synths are programmed, but breath controller is considered a better modulation source for wind/reed/brass virtual models.

[dan88z]

I like aftertouch. Most of the time I program it to do LFO stuff that the mod wheel might normally do. When you have a keyboard with 2 wheels, it's hard to work both the bender and mod at the same time. This allows me to use the bender wheel and hit the LFO with the aftertouch. Then you can program the mod wheel to do something else, like filter or rez settings, or delay amount, etc.

[Roald]

live, I can't play without it. When I solo I almost always have the left hand on the Rhodes or Electro for comping, so I only have the right for playing and expression. That's why I got so used to it, I now also use it a lot while recording as it feels very natural to me. Dan88z's point on the pitchbending is also a good one.

 

That only goes for monophonic sounds, with poly it is very hard to control in my experience, and not really necessary.

 

so, I think if you're a 'player'player then it's a must, if not, I wouldn't worry and go with the controller with most knobs and sliders.

[mrcpro]

I agree with evryone about it's usefulness on leads. I use it to bring in a second element on short sustains, so they don't sound so static... kind of like a guitar player's wah pedal. It will always be there on my lead board.

[Darkstorm]

It addsto the ability the expressiveness available.

[The Real MC]

Aftertouch is extremely useful. Besides mod wheel and pitch bend uses, assigning AT to waveshape, filter cutoff, or volume is really expressive in that you can fade in sounds or alter timbre with just your fingers.

 

PolyAT is rare and not available on any new boards today. My Kurzweil MIDIBoard has polyAT and it is incredible with choirs and strings. I only wish the Andromeda supported polyAT (Hi Marshall!)

 

The best AT keyboard IMO is the lowly ARP ProSoloist. That's the only keyboard that I can get a very natural sounding vibrato without an LFO, I just route AT to pitch bend, volume, and filter and use pressure to modulate the note manually. None of my other boards with AT has the same responsive expression of the ARP. The only board I've played that rivals the ARP's AT is a Buchla controller.

[k2500x]

I had a ReMOTE 61 but found that it would activate the aftertouch just by me playing forte. Got very annoying on synth patches that used the feature for drastic changes in the sound... I use a SL880 Pro now and it works perfectly for me. Only adds the aftertouch when I apply extra pressure.

[tucktronix]

I very seldomly use aftertouch nowadays, would use it primarily for leads. On the EX7, the ribbon controller has been my main source of expressiveness, outside of the 3 mod wheels.

[Cydonia]

Ryst,

 

Aftertouch is necessary if you're the kind of keyboardist who enjoys expressive synth sounds and plays with both hands most of the time.

 

Otherwise, if you almost only play piano patches at home or used as of "secondary level" in your band and are not too busy with your left hand, aftertouch may be optional.

 

I personally always hated wheels because I'd need a third hand, so my main controller has poly-AT and two configurable control pedals.

 

In short, it depends what your needs are.

[Markyboard]

Originally posted by k2500x I had a ReMOTE 61 but found that it would activate the aftertouch just by me playing forte. Got very annoying on synth patches that used the feature for drastic changes in the sound... I use a SL880 Pro now and it works perfectly for me. Only adds the aftertouch when I apply extra pressure.

 

I like the A6 where you can assign a secondary controller ( pedal lets say) as a trigger to the LFO. This way the aftertouch doesn't activate unless the pedal is pushed down and you press on the key..

[Birdienumnum]

With the CME controllers, aftertouch can be turned off and on with the press of a dedicated button.

 

Personally, ever since playing my DX7II back in the 80's, I can't imagine a keyboard without it, (except for my crappy PCR50 which I've just given to my daughter's boyfriend). If you don't use a breath controller, aftertouch is the next best thing IMO.

[Marzzz]

I can't imagine playing without aftertouch. For leads where your other hand is otherwise occupied, it is essential.

 

Also, I am one of those rare people who are enthusiasts regarding polyphonic aftertouch. I also have a Kurzweil MIDIBoard (hi Michael!) and I use it CONSTANTLY- and yes, don't get me started about the Andromeda! The DSI PolyEvolver does respond to polyAT, and I am in sheer bliss using it! I am particularly dismayed that a lot of modern gear won't even respond to polyAT, including Access Virii, Nord, Yamaha (ES Rack), and many others.....

 

I REALLY wish somebody, somewhere, would make a modern keyboard controller with PolyAT. And that the ability for rack gear to respond to it would remain in place for those of us who make the effort to use it.

[Cydonia]

Originally posted by Marzzz I am particularly dismayed that a lot of modern gear won't even respond to polyAT, including...

 

Very true, it's sad that poly-AT isn't liked anymore by manufacturers. It wouldn't be so tough to include it in the new synths, but... They are too concerned about $.

 

That's why I keep my old Kurzs Pro-1 and MIDIboard v3, which continue to play flawlessly since day one.

[Birdienumnum]

Originally posted by Marzzz I REALLY wish somebody, somewhere, would make a modern keyboard controller with PolyAT. And that the ability for rack gear to respond to it would remain in place for those of us who make the effort to use it.

 

+ 100 Ya hear that, you industry lurkers out there?

[The Real MC]

Originally posted by Cydonia That's why I keep my old Kurzs Pro-1 and MIDIboard v3, which continue to play flawlessly since day one.

 

Ditto - MIDIBoard v3 and four 1000 series romplers (PX, HX, SX, GX) going strong since day one. Excellent machines.

 

If they can do PolyAT in the mid 80s, they can do it today.

[mrcpro]

Originally posted by Birdienumnum , I can't imagine a keyboard without it, (except for my crappy PCR50 which I've just given to my daughter's boyfriend)

 

Really like the guy, huh Birdie?

[girevik]

Originally posted by Marzzz I REALLY wish somebody, somewhere, would make a modern keyboard controller with PolyAT.

 

This one will, though you will have to adjust to the Bosanquet-like keyboard layout:

 

 

The other caveat is its designed to be a softsynth controller. Then again, softsynths that respond to poly AT are easier to find than the same in hardware.

[android]

I use aftertouch very much and I wouldn't buy a keyboard without it. I'm actually about to buy a SQ80 (poly-AT!!) soon...!

And btw, there are a few "modern" synthesizers that are able to respond to poly-AT:

-Evolver (as already mentioned (but I just realised that it's pretty useless on my (mono!)Evolver! ))

-Waldorf Q/uQ (and perhaps microWaveXT as well??)

[Hobbes]

My nordstage made me use aftertouch. I use it for leslie speed. Really fun!