Need ideas on St. Thomas

[Terje]

I love this tune. But I never seem to be able to play something convincing on it for a solo. My main approache has been to stay close to the melody.

 

Then I've used the C maj. pent. scale for most of it except for the places whre there is a Em7 A7 chord change, then I play C# instead of C. I've also tried some altered pentatonic scales.

 

I have tried playing around with the chord tones but that never sounds very convincing when I do it.

 

What have I not done? I have yet to learn Sonny Rollins solo. And I have at times thought it might be a good idea to learn something from Max Roach's drum solo which is fantastic.

 

Should I just stay with the song for a very long time? Some of my best solos have been on tunes that I've played for a very, very long time.

 

Please come with some suggestions. Doesn't matter how crazy, at this point anything is welcome

[evan_02]

Originally posted by Terje I have yet to learn Sonny Rollins solo.

 

do that...and find more recordings of it and figure out was everyone else is doing...thats where i find the answers to my questions...

[Terje]

Yeah, I know I'm just too lazy. But there's no other way here I think. I love the tune too much to let it go. I need it to be a part of my repertoire. Do you know of any other great recordings of it?

[evan_02]

no i don't...but doesn't aebersold's doubletime records have a search function that can search by song? imagine if you found a recording of 'trane playing it:eek:

[lazaraga]

try forgetting any pitch content at all and focus on the rhythm.
play any old notes or chords to the basic rhythmic phrase/melody.

peace

[thelonius74]

I love playing that tune...but I've never actually played a solo over it.

[65bfdr]

This song has the same changes that you'll find in a bebop melody. Play C ionian or pent. over C, then either Bb mel. minor or Bb dim over Em-A7, then D dorian over Dm7 and Ab mel.min. over G7.
On its tale, the 1 turns into a 5 so you'll play a C# mel. min to the subdominant (which is now 1)

Or just {censored} it and play the C pentatonic blues scale (a minor third step up from the C maj.) over the whole thing It actually works if you don't feel like messing with the changes. Then you'll have to rely on your phrasing....

[Terje]

Thanks for the tips. But can you please clarify this:

Originally posted by 65bfdr the C pentatonic blues scale (a minor third step up from the C maj.)

Do you mean the C blues scale minus the b5? C Eb F G Bb ?

[Dave Regio]

Wolf Marshall's Best of Jazz Guitar has solos as played by Jim Hall, Tal Farlow and Kenny Burrell. Good stuff. I haven't had a chance to play through them though (still stuck on So What).

[65bfdr]

Terje, if the b5 isn't in there it would be a C minor pent. and I didn't write that, did I?

[Terje]

Originally posted by 65bfdr Terje, if the b5 isn't in there it would be a C minor pent. and I didn't write that, did I?

 

 

No, you wrote "the C pentatonic blues scale". The blues scale has six notes so it's all a bit confusing. But nevermind, I think I know what you mean. I'm just being a pain here.

[Terje]

I've got two ideas of my own that sort of work together to form a pretty interesting solo (if used intelligently). The first one is to work around the melody. Stay pretty close to it but make rhythmic and melodic variations.

The second one is sort of the opposite. Play as if someone else already was playing the melody and you were playing the fills between the melody lines.

[thamiam]

St. Thomas is practically a study in ii-V's, both minor and major. To simplify and play less chord based, you might want to group these together by key, and then choose a scale for each key. You will only be changing key every 2-3 bars instead of changing chords every bar or every 2 beats.

This approach also works to simplify Giant Steps into workable form, as while there are a gajillion changes a minute, there are only three keys in the song.

[Terje]

Originally posted by thamiam This approach also works to simplify Giant Steps into workable form, as while there are a gajillion changes a minute, there are only three keys in the song.

 

 

I know, and if ou're really lazy you can do it with three simple pentatonic scales too.

[lazaraga]

Originally posted by lazaraga try forgetting any pitch content at all and focus on the rhythm. play any old notes or chords to the basic rhythmic phrase/melody. peace

 

 

bump for terje

 

 

peace

[Sputnik]

Originally posted by Terje Do you know of any other great recordings of it?

 

 

I like the version by Jim Hall and Ron Carter off of their duo album "Alone Together".

[scottl]

Originally posted by 65bfdr This song has the same changes that you'll find in a bebop melody. Play C ionian or pent. over C, then either Bb mel. minor or Bb dim over Em-A7, then D dorian over Dm7 and Ab mel.min. over G7. On its tale, the 1 turns into a 5 so you'll play a C# mel. min to the subdominant (which is now 1) Or just {censored} it and play the C pentatonic blues scale (a minor third step up from the C maj.) over the whole thing It actually works if you don't feel like messing with the changes. Then you'll have to rely on your phrasing....

Excellent advice!!! And I know that your phrasing would work great!!! What's up Asle! It's Scott. We have not chatted in years!! Glad you are still with us in America!!

Any new tunes for me to check out???

Scott

[scottl]

Terje,

I think the important thing to work on are ii-V's, both major and minor. It is essential to have some grasp of making the changes with the usage of melodic minor or diminished ideas over those dominants! You could also superimpose some pentatonics to create some of the same altered tensions.

The John Scofield DCI instructional video from the 80's has some great ideas for you. Try and search it out. Excellent tape to break you in on melodic minor and pentatonics.

Scott

[92Strat]

Well if I were gonna improv on that tune I think I would probably throw some nice OCTAVES (played with the thumb of course) over the melody line... Maybe something like what George Benson would do, right?