Members Whitecloak Posted February 7, 2003 Members Posted February 7, 2003 I've been playing for 2 years, and I've gotten pretty comfortable with "all" the major, minor, and 7 chords (with a few others here and there), and I'm ready to start soloing. I've got several years of jazz experience (lots of improv soloing) on the sax, but I'm clueless on the guitar. Where should I start? I don't know any scales, so I figured that's the best place to start. If so, could you please link me to a good site that can help me with this or, if necessary, good books to buy?
Members djmojo Posted February 8, 2003 Members Posted February 8, 2003 well going with the theme of "walk before you run", I would suggest that you pick a progression, something easy and find a way of looping it back, if you want help with it, I could sequence some chords for you, and let you download it, then you can just play over top of that... basically, just make a progression (start with power chords, they are easiest, neither minor nor major, so you can screw up and still sound good, thus giving confidence) for example play E5, E5, G5, A5 and repeat... thats 4 bars of chords, and then play over top of that starting with the pentatonic minor scale... this is the best one to learn on because it has 5 notes (6 including the octave) and most of them sound good when held over a chord in the same key... Im assuming you know about keys because of your saxaphone experience. basically, you can play anynotes you want, but make sure you hold, or accent the ones that are in the chords you are playing over... and if you stick with the pentatonic minor, then its easy to find the notes in your chords. if this doesnt help at all let me know... I can put up some tabs or something, but then its not improve just remember that as a rule of thumb, hold notes that are in the chords, and use the other notes to "move" to the chordal tones.
Members Terje Posted February 8, 2003 Members Posted February 8, 2003 Originally posted by Whitecloak I've got several years of jazz experience (lots of improv soloing) on the sax, but I'm clueless on the guitar. No, you can't be. Just do the same thing on the guitar as you have done on the sax and you'll be fine. What's the difference really?
Members Bkreith Posted February 9, 2003 Members Posted February 9, 2003 im just learning to improv on the trombone, and i had a tiny bit of improv experience on the guitar. just apply the same methods you used to learn on the saxaphone to the guitar. learn all the major scales and the modes, and other scales like the blues and pentatonic scales. learn the arpeggios for all the scales, and all the inversions of all the arpeggios. learn all this stuff inside and out so you can do it in your sleep. you might want to pick up Jamie Aebersold's Nothin but Blues(i believe its volume 2 in that series). this way, you can pop in a cd and follow a chord progression. start slowly, using just pentatonic(this seems to be the easiest to start out on), then start using other scales and modes. you might want to pick up a cheap tape recorder so you can actually hear your progress, or just record it onto your computer. when it comes to improv with all instruments, as im sure you know, knowledge is power. and dont forget to listen. just listening to jazz and blues artists who know what they are doing can make a huge impact in your playing. its strange when you start seeing characteristics of miles davis in your own creations, but that means your writing things that sound good.
Members Whitecloak Posted February 10, 2003 Author Members Posted February 10, 2003 Yes I do understand the concept of the pentatonic scale and it's uses in ease of fitting into a chord, and I have the first of Jamey Aebersold's books. I was just wondering if learning those scales is the best way to start out. Is it a better idea to just learn the pentatonic scales, or should I go ahead and learn the full major/minor scales and their variations? Also, I could figure out any scale with a little time, but I don't know the best way to play it. In other words, how do I know, when learning the scales, when to keep progressing up the same string (since you can play a whole scale on one string), and when to go to the next highest string? Is it best to learn the scale throught all 6? What about in different octaves on the same strings (higher on the neck)? Moreover, is there any website or book that you would recommend to help me figure them out? I'd prefer a website if there are any.
Members 555 Posted February 10, 2003 Members Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Terje No, you can't be. Just do the same thing on the guitar as you have done on the sax and you'll be fine. What's the difference really? What he said...... It's the same notes. Just learn where the notes are..... Learn your chords......half of the notes you're looking for are in each one.
Members Phil Brigham Posted February 11, 2003 Members Posted February 11, 2003 If you're coming at improvisation from a sax player's view, guitar improvisation in some ways is easier.When you learn the modes and the pentatonic scales on guitar, it's very typical to learn a scale that uses no open strings...so transposing is pretty easy. You just take the scale fingering you just learned, and move everything up or down a fret, or two, etc.I could solo on the guitar way before I knew the names of the notes on the fretboard, or way before I knew what notes are in what chords, etc.My guess is that sax players and keyboard players often are taught to read music and learn to name the notes before they start to improvise, so they actually learn that C minor pentatonic is C, Eb, F, G, Bb, whereas a guitarist might just think of it as a fingering pattern that starts on fret 8.
Members thamiam Posted February 11, 2003 Members Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by Whitecloak I've been playing for 2 years, and I've gotten pretty comfortable with "all" the major, minor, and 7 chords (with a few others here and there), and I'm ready to start soloing. I've got several years of jazz experience (lots of improv soloing) on the sax, but I'm clueless on the guitar. Where should I start? I don't know any scales, so I figured that's the best place to start. If so, could you please link me to a good site that can help me with this or, if necessary, good books to buy? I was in the same boat when I started. Played jazz saxohone for about 7 years before I picked up a guitar, and then was completely clueless. If I had to do it all over again, here is what I would try: 1)Buy the William Leavitt Complete guitar method book, and go through the whole thing. 2)Memorize the notes on the fretboard. Completely memorized, without looking at the fretboard. Do that ASAP. 3)Learn chord shapes, but more importantly, learn the scale degree relationships for each chord shape. For instance, playing a chord and instead of knowing all the note names I'm playing, be able to instantly know that I am playing the 1-5-1-b7-3 (for instance). This is huge to learning the unique charm of the guitar, and I'm only starting to get it down well now. As for scales, and pretty much all single note playing, that translates fairly easily form the sax as soon as you learn the fretboard notes. I think I practiced that too much because it was easier, and now I'm paying because I didn't learn the guitar as a chordal instrument. I'd recommend not spending too much time on scales. I'd love to hear your experiences, since we seem to have very similar backgrounds. Keep us posted.
Members thamiam Posted February 11, 2003 Members Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by Whitecloak Also, I could figure out any scale with a little time, but I don't know the best way to play it. In other words, how do I know, when learning the scales, when to keep progressing up the same string (since you can play a whole scale on one string), and when to go to the next highest string? Is it best to learn the scale throught all 6? What about in different octaves on the same strings (higher on the neck)? Moreover, is there any website or book that you would recommend to help me figure them out? I'd prefer a website if there are any. The answer is both. There are "position scales" which you can play across the strings, or you can play on just one string. Neither is "best". Get the book "The Advancing Guitarist" by Mick Goodrick for a great idea on this concept. You may feel a little overwhelmed by the whole book to start, but you're going to need it eventually, so you might as well get it now.
Members Whitecloak Posted February 19, 2003 Author Members Posted February 19, 2003 Originally posted by thamiam Memorize the notes on the fretboard. Completely memorized, without looking at the fretboard. Do that ASAP. Do you mean memorize the notes without looking at the guitar, or be able to play all the notes and know what I'm playing without looking at my left hand? Originally posted by thamiam Learn chord shapes, but more importantly, learn the scale degree relationships for each chord shape. For instance, playing a chord and instead of knowing all the note names I'm playing, be able to instantly know that I am playing the 1-5-1-b7-3 (for instance). This is huge to learning the unique charm of the guitar, and I'm only starting to get it down well now. So what you're saying is, if I play this D: X 0 0 2 3 2 Know NOT that I'm playing: X A D A D F# But that I'm playing these chord notes: X 5 1 5 1 M3 Am I understanding you correctly? I haven't ever tried to learn what notes it is that I'm playing in various chords--I've had to do so to figure out some chords, but I don't ever think about it. That seems like it could get a bit overwhelming. Thank you, btw, for an informative post.
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