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Slide: Full vs. "dirty" tone (damping)


Terje

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Posted

The tone you get wehn playing with a controlled attack and with string buzz dampened out behind the slide, and the non- played strings dampened too, let's call that a "full" tone. It's smooth and rich.

 

There's the other tone, it comes in many shades too, when you don't damp behind the slide, or don't dampen the strings you don't play or attack the strings with too much force, in other words, when you get string buzz, let's call that a "dirty" tone.

 

They both have their place. One is not better than the other. Many (me included) have a tendency to look at the "full" tone as the "correct" one.

 

The really good and lively sound is when you mix both tones. The "dirty", undampened tone has a very vocal and intensely emotional quality. The "full" tone is very beaitiful though.

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I think your distinction isn't that useful because it portrays slide stuff as a something bounded by 2 end points. Maybe I misapprehend you.

 

Playing slide is like using the human voice. You can cry, yell, whisper or roar, chatter or hum, laugh or rant or just pleasantly converse. There are no limits.

 

cheers

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Posted

i kinda see what you mean. if the guitar is in an open tuning sometimes it sounds good to let some of it ring and fall into place as opposed to keeping the slide movement tight and clean

 

but playing in standard its hard to let anything else ring out

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Posted

 

Originally posted by austi012

I think your distinction isn't that useful because it portrays slide stuff as a something bounded by 2 end points. Maybe I misapprehend you.


Playing slide is like using the human voice. You can cry, yell, whisper or roar, chatter or hum, laugh or rant or just pleasantly converse. There are no limits.


cheers

 

 

Never said there were any limits. Just pointed to two distinct techniques that are somtimes described as excluding one another (Bob Brozman for instance).

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Posted

 

Originally posted by echo_plus

but playing in standard its hard to let anything else ring out

 

 

It basically works in any tuning.

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Posted

Terje, you didn't say anything wrong, as far as that goes, you're just a person coming out of a western rationalist tradition. Like 99% of everybody.

 

RANT ON

 

I just don't like dichotomous thinking when it comes to music. In fact, I don't like it at all. Subject/Object, This and that, thesis and antithesis, describing politics or musical techniques or the spiciness of food in terms of a spectrum with endpoints that are in opposition to each other... it's a bunch of crap.

 

Western Rational Thought: just say no.

 

RANT OFF

 

:cool:

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Posted

Originally posted by austi012

Terje, you didn't say anything wrong, as far as that goes, you're just a person coming out of a western rationalist tradition. Like 99% of everybody.


RANT ON


I just don't like dichotomous thinking when it comes to music. In fact, I don't like it at all. Subject/Object, This and that, thesis and antithesis, describing politics or musical techniques or the spiciness of food in terms of a spectrum with endpoints that are in opposition to each other... it's a bunch of crap.


Western Rational Thought: just say no.


RANT OFF


:cool:

 

And just WTF does your rant have to do with slide technique? So you don't like the 'This or That' factor. Please describe your Eastern partial damping technique so we can all give it a try. I'm all for deviating from the norm, but without any actual input, your rant amounts to babble, or as you say- a bunch of crap.

 

One of my favorite slide players, David Lindley, is about as non western as you are likely to find, but even he will tell you that proper damping technique is one of the most important things a slide player can develop. Either you dampen correctly, or not at all. Are you suggesting the middle road, ie poor damping, is what we should be trying for?

 

If anyone is open to non western alternatives regarding blues slide, it's our Buddhist balalaika playing friend Terje.

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Posted

My rant has nothing to do with slide technique. It has to do with how people percieve the universe through models that limit.

 

If Terje is a Buddhist, he probably knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

And I'm not talking about eastern music at all. Or advocating poor technique.

 

And by the way, if I bother to put the "rant on" "rant off" tags in, it generally means I'm being at least partly tongue-in-cheek.

 

I can tell that Terje is a capital fellow from his postings, and probably twice the musician I am. I intended no offense. Just idle bickering to pass the time.

 

cheers

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Posted

Originally posted by austi012

My rant has nothing to do with slide technique. It has to do with how people percieve the universe through models that limit.


If Terje is a Buddhist, he probably knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

I am a buddhist and I have an idea of what you are talking about. But it does not really apply here, as you have noted yourself, since that type of thinking has nothing whatsoever to do with slide technique.

 

And I got the joke, no harm done. It was pretty funny actually.

 

As for your idea that I'm a greater musician than you... how would you know? :)

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Posted

Back to slide playing - besides playing with or without left or right hand damping, sometimes I like to lift the slide just the slightest bit off the strings (relax the downward slide pressure on the strings). I think using these different techniques adds to the emotional feel of any tune. The contrasts in sound are what I find exciting - to play only clean or only dirty gets boring to me both playing and listening. And, no, it's not an either /or sort of thing.

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Posted

Originally posted by austi012

My rant has nothing to do with slide technique. It has to do with how people percieve the universe through models that limit.


If Terje is a Buddhist, he probably knows exactly what I'm talking about.


And I'm not talking about eastern music at all. Or advocating poor technique.


And by the way, if I bother to put the "rant on" "rant off" tags in, it generally means I'm being at least partly tongue-in-cheek.


I can tell that Terje is a capital fellow from his postings, and probably twice the musician I am. I intended no offense. Just idle bickering to pass the time.


cheers

 

OK, :cool: It's hard enough for me to sound good playing slide without having to inject too much philosophy into it ;) I didn't know how aquainted you were with T.L., so I found your Western rationalist comment out of sorts with my experiences with his ideas. No harm, no foul.

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Posted

Originally posted by Terje



As for your idea that I'm a greater musician than you... how would you know?
:)

 

Because even though I don't know the quality of your playing first hand, I am all too acquainted with mine!:D

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Posted

 

Originally posted by Bopcat

Back to slide playing - besides playing with or without left or right hand damping, sometimes I like to lift the slide just the slightest bit off the strings (relax the downward slide pressure on the strings). I think using these different techniques adds to the emotional feel of any tune. The contrasts in sound are what I find exciting - to play only clean or only dirty gets boring to me both playing and listening. And, no, it's not an either /or sort of thing.

 

 

Yeah! That's a great point. I was intending to add this to the initial post but forgot it. Very, very important aspect of slide playing techniques as far as tone is concerned. And very sldom spoken about. Gives you a buzzier tone, thinner tone. But also a very beautiful tone.

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Posted

 

Originally posted by Terje



It basically works in any tuning.

 

 

 

 

o.k. iy sounded like you were descerning between A: damping (keeping the slide nice and focused without alot of unwanted string noise/vibrations

 

or B: letting the other strings/sounds vibrate freely by keeping a loose feel to your playing.

 

all i meant was it sounds more pleasant in open tunings.

i've never really heard anything in standard with alot of other note vibrations that "worked"-except for that "i'm just now learning to play slide sound".

 

i didnt say you couldnt play "loose" in standard-just that alot of excess noise from other strings doesnt work AS WELL as in open tunings.

 

thats not the same as letting the E or B or G string ring every now and then as a passing tone......flee from me satan

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Posted

I'm of the "whatever works" school. Sometimes you want a very clear tone with no string noise, and sometimes, a little string noise will give you a grittier sound. Sometimes the percussive clashing sound you can get putting the slide back on the strings after fretting works. Depends on the song and the effects you are after. Listen to Roy Rogers who has huge pallet of clean to gritty sounds.

 

 

:cool:

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Posted

Originally posted by Smilin' Bob

I'm of the "whatever works" school. Sometimes you want a very clear tone with no string noise, and sometimes, a little string noise will give you a grittier sound. Sometimes the percussive clashing sound you can get putting the slide back on the strings after fretting works. Depends on the song and the effects you are after. Listen to Roy Rogers who has huge pallet of clean to gritty sounds.



:cool:

 

Very true. All of it.

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