Members MusicRocks! Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Hi, there is one thing I don't understand. How do I determine/calculate/make up/find the chords for a given key? So let's take the key of E. What would the chords be? And what's the differencd to Em? Which keys do exist? Only major and minor keys? Thanks a lot! I hope this will help me to take one more step on the looong hard road of mastering the guitar...
Members Terje Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by MusicRocks! Hi, there is one thing I don't understand. How do I determine/calculate/make up/find the chords for a given key? While there are general "rules" there are many varioations too and actually you can't. Cause a song may very well have chords, harmony to the given melody, that don't belong to the given key. Anyway, why make things complicated... when your question is really straight forward? So let's take the key of E. What would the chords be?The chords "belonging" to the key of E would be E, F#m, G#m, A, B7, C#m And D#m7b5. Of these you'd most often see E A and B7 in use, cause these three together cover all the notes in the key of E. You'd rarely see D#m7b5, in its place you'd most often see B7. And what's the differencd to Em?Well, E major (the one aboe) has a relative key called C# minor. They share the same notes it's just that E major starts and ends on E and C# minor starts and ends on C#. E mionr is the relative key to G major. Which keys do exist? Only major and minor keys?I think it's more like this, there are 12 keys and from these you makes scales they can be either major or minor diminished or augemented or whole'tone or chromatic or...You know. most people don
Members Mike_E_McGee Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 E Major: E F# G# A B C# D# (E) E G# B Major (I) F# A C# Minor (ii) G# B D# Minor (iii) A C# E Major (IV) B D# F# Major (V) C# E G# Minor (vi) D# F# A Diminished (viio) Let's look at seventh chords: E G# B D# Major (I[triangle]7) F# A C# E Minor 7 (ii-7) G# B D# F#Minor 7 (iii-7) A C# E G# Major (IV[triangle]7) (I wish I knew how to do this on a qwerty keyboard) B D# F# A Dominant (V7) C# E G# B Minor 7 (vi-7) D# F# A C# Half Diminished (vii[circle with line through it]7) You want ninths? Elevenths? Thirteenths? You'll have to wait until I'm home from work, or until someone else answers.
Members Mike_E_McGee Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Terje beat me. His answer is probably more appropriate.
Members Terje Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by Shamuspizzbutt Terje beat me. His answer is probably more appropriate. I think they work fine in combination.
Members MusicRocks! Posted April 30, 2003 Author Members Posted April 30, 2003 Thanks so far for your answers! But how can I know which chords to use in the key of C or D# or whatever? Can I look them up anywhere or can I derive them somehow from the key? I have the strange feeling that Shamuspizzbutt's post should help me with this, but I can't figure out how... Very confusing...
Members 335clone Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by MusicRocks! Thanks so far for your answers!But how can I know which chords to use in the key of C or D# or whatever?Can I look them up anywhere or can I derive them somehow from the key?I have the strange feeling that Shamuspizzbutt's post should help me with this, but I can't figure out how...Very confusing... Work it out on a single string. C (root) 2nd string, 1st fret The formula isWhole step (W), W, Half step (H), W, W, W, H orWWHWWWH So from that C it would be C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C (C is so easy) The same formula works no matter what note you start on Then You need to remember thatRoot=Major2nd=minor3rd=minor4th=major5th=major (often a 7th)6th=minor7th=diminished8th=Octave (same as root but one octave higher) So in CCMajDmEmFMajGMag or G7AminBdimCMaj
Members thliu Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by MusicRocks! Thanks so far for your answers!But how can I know which chords to use in the key of C or D# or whatever? The way to learn this is to think in terms of roman numerals. For a major key, these are the appropriate chords. I ii iii IV V vi vii(half-dim) Upper case means major and lower case means minor. So to reiterate Terje's post, let's look at the key of E major in terms of roman numerals. I = E majorii = F# minoriii = G# minorIV = A majorV = B majorvi = C# minorvii = D# half diminished Each roman numeral goes up a chord. You should also be familiar with the major scale. Starting from the root, it goes whole step (2nd or ii), whole step (3rd or iii), half step (4th or IV), whole step (5th or V), whole step (6th or vi), whole step (7th or vii), and half step (root again). And for now, just concentrate on those major and minor chords. If you want to get a fuller view, continue down. Otherwise, just try to memorize the above. In addition to major and minor (knowing the 3rds and 5ths), you should know the 7ths eventually. Shamus started getting into that. I maj7 = Emaj7ii m7 = F#m7iii m7 = G#m7IV maj7 = Amaj7V 7 = B7 (or dominant)vi m7 = C#m7vii m7m5 = D#m7b5 (or half-diminished) Once you know the 7ths (and you already know the 3rds and 5ths from the first part of this post), you should learn the rest of the scale degrees, including 2 (or 9), 4 (or 11), 6 (or 13). The 2, 4, or 6 can be sharp, flat, or natural just like the 3, 5, and 7 that we've already looked at. I won't go into it now, but once you learn it, you've basically learned all the modes of the major scale. Ionian, dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian, and locrian.
Members Terje Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 Originally posted by MusicRocks! Thanks so far for your answers!But how can I know which chords to use in the key of C or D# or whatever? Start by learning how you build chords (like 335clone suggests). Chords are built up of 3rds. And there are only two types of 3rdes, major and minor. And a major chord is a major 3rd followed by a minor 3rd. And a minor chord is a minor 3rd followed by a major 3rd.
Members edeltorus Posted April 30, 2003 Members Posted April 30, 2003 I wrote some stuff about an hour ago, but HC didn't let me post it. You already wrote the same, but it can't hurt to read it one more time Hi MusicRocks,I think you need a little primer on music theory. I'll show you how to build chords out of the scales. My method to draw scale-diagrams is not that common, and I doubt you'll find it anywhere else, but it works for me.As an example I'll build all possible chords of the major scale:I write down the intervals of the major scale. I draw a little diagram for all 12 halftones, put a circle where a scale-note is, and a | for those notes that don't belong to the scale. The dashes seperates the notes.1---2---3-4---5---6---7-8O-|-O-|-O-O-|-O-|-O-|-O-O(It's the major scale, so there are halftone step between the 3rd and 4th note, and between the 7th and 8th).Then I build your chords from the scale. Chords are build from at least three notes. I just stack two thirds, and I get a chord. A third is an interval that's either 3 or 4 halftone steps long. Those with 3 halftone steps are minor thirds, and those with 4 are major thirds (if this confuses you do a web-search. There are enough pages explaining intervals)Here I build the chord for the first note of the major scale:First note is 1:1---2---3-4---5---6---7-8*-|-O-|-O-O-|-O-|-O-|-O-OOne third above the 1 I find the 3:1---2---3-4---5---6---7-8*-|-O-|-*-O-|-O-|-O-|-O-OOne third above the 3 I find the 5:1---2---3-4---5---6---7-8*-|-O-|-*-O-|-*-|-O-|-O-OSo the first chord of the major scale is build from the notes 1,3 and 5.You can find out the gender (minor, major, whatever) of the chord by looking at the halftone steps.First Third | Second third | Chord-Gender-------------------------------------------Major 3rd | Minor 3rd | Major chordMinor 3rd | Major 3rd | Minor chordMinor 3rd | Minor 3rd | Dimished chordMajor 3rd | Major 3rd | Augmented chord Take a look at the intervals between 1,3 and 5: 1 -> 3: Major third (4 halftone steps) 3 -> 5: Minor third (3 halftone steps).So the first chord of the major scale is a major chord.If you do this for all seven chord of the major scale you'll get a table like this:I / ii / iii / IV / V / VI / vii / vii
Members MusicRocks! Posted May 1, 2003 Author Members Posted May 1, 2003 Thanks for the detailed explanations!
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