Members johnnymartino Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do think what you say here, is a very valid point. At least to me, there seem to be more tools for expressing emotions and creating atmospheres than just modes. And the way the mode is used (considering melody, texture, etc), does indeed define the atmosphere. I think Flamenco is an excellent example, cause to me a lot of flamenco -although using Phrygian and Aeolion a lot- does not sound dark at all, but rather powerful.I also think the modes exist for a reason, and that it would be wrong to say they are no different from each other. Hence, i recommended this book -in which i think the author explains the modes in a way no one else ever has- to gain insight in their underlying structure (related to the overtone series). This underlying structure explains a tendency for certain modes to sound sunnier and for others to sound darker (and why that is). No absolutes here. And this tendency holds up in my experience. So i never said a mode is only capable of expressing this or that emotion.I also never said reading about modes is more important than playing. To be clear : i've got little or no musical training, and i still understand very little about music theory, which i think is better than knowing music, but not being able to play it properly from the heart, but worse than playing music intuitively AND understanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phlat Phive Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 I do think what you say here, is a very valid point. At least to me, there seem to be more tools for expressing emotions and creating atmospheres than just modes. And the way the mode is used (considering melody, texture, etc), does indeed define the atmosphere. I also think the modes exist for a reason, and that it would be wrong to say they are no different. Hence, i recommended the book -of which i think the author explains the modes in a way no one else ever has- to gain insight in their underlying structure (related to the overtone series). So i never said a mode is only capable of expressing this or that emotion. I also never said reading about modes is more important than playing. These are merely things people read in what i write. I'm putting it on my "things to check out at some point" list. It's getting to be a pretty long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members johnnymartino Posted April 27, 2009 Members Share Posted April 27, 2009 To me the important thing about modes is that the energy shifts one way or another when changing mode. There's a different atmosphere, and however we try to put it in words, we can definitely feel it. At least so it seems to me. You could play along with a Hildegard von Bingen record, because in her songs there's no change of tonal centre and usually no more than two modes used. To me Phrygian in a Hildegard von Bingen's music doesn't sound dark, but very intimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SlaveNewWorld0 Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 Interesting thread. On the subject of modes, Lydian has an "ethereal" sound to me. Lydian and its dominant counter-part is used a lot in TV and film soundtracks because it seems to induce a feeling of wonder and fantasy. It's quite mesmorising. Listen to the main soundtrack of Gangs of New York for an example of that. Beautiful music and all focussed around Lydian movements. But then you have the Simpsons theme tune, which makes a very different use of Lydian. And then there's a lot of heavy metal which draws from that tri-tone of Lydian to create what has been described as "music to raise the devil". Powerchords/diads are most often used to arpeggiate these movements. So yes, modes/scales do have certain unique qualities and moods, but those moods can work in different contexts. Some scales are more versatile than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think it boils down to how you categorize the sounds yourself. If you think a certain modal shape sounds sad and you use it to sound sad then you got it. To me the end goal is to be able to externalize what I hear or feel internally on the fly. So if categorizing shapes allows me to do that I would. The modes do have different feels to them for sure. I can't quite put my finger on them I just know what my ear likes to hear. I follow that as best I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 I think the key thing people/guitarists completely miss while spending so much time on Modes is listening to some music that actually based on Modes or Modal structures. Modes are not used all the time, so they are not needed all the time. Actually listening to Modal based music will REALLY open your eyes to the effectiveness of Modes and the non-effectiveness of Modes (based on when you might EVER give a rats ass about them or not). Here's a list of vehicles people use to explore Modal based music (you can find them on youtube, and listening to the "studio" version would be recommended as the live Modal tunes can get pretty whacked out, and in most cases it's the studio versions that sold the world on the song in the first place...then the musician took over and spilled it into other areas for live performances): So What by Miles Davis - DorianMaiden Voyage by Herbie Handcock - DorianSong for John by Stanley Clarke and Chick Corea - Lydian and MixolydianKm-Pee-Du-Wee by Steve Vai - LydianNorwegian Wood the Beatles - Mixolydian and Dorian also I believeIn Memory of Elizabeth Reed by The Allman Brothers - DorianWindows by Chick Corea - LydianMore Ravi Shankar and Shakti than you can shake a stick at! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Orbit Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 Not many of the bands I listen to make use of the Locrian mode, would this be because of it's Tonic Chord? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 Not many of the bands I listen to make use of the Locrian mode, would this be because of it's Tonic Chord? The Locrian Mode was thrown in as an after thought since that HAD TO include every note of the Major Scale to make "the system" complete. There's not a whole lot of times, if any, the m7b5 chord is the "one chord". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jeremy_green Posted April 28, 2009 Members Share Posted April 28, 2009 Pretty strong pull on a m7b5 chord ... hard to imagine anything really resolving to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Orbit Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 The Locrian Mode was thrown in as an after thought since that HAD TO include every note of the Major Scale to make "the system" complete. There's not a whole lot of times, if any, the m7b5 chord is the "one chord". Thanks for clearing that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfwhole Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 if you want be funny i guess you could play a blues tune and change all the dom7 to min7b5 built off the 3rd. i might do that just for {censored}s and giggles actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1001gear Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 Major - happyMinor - sad and if you have a psychology background you can plug any scale into it's place in the human condition.Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 if you want be funny i guess you could play a blues tune and change all the dom7 to min7b5 built off the 3rd. i might do that just for {censored}s and giggles actually That is "the Rootless dom9 chord". Howlin' Wolf made it famous. It's a staple in the song Stormy Monday, as well as a bunch of his other tunes too. G9 = G B D F ABm7b5 = B D F ARootless G9 = B D F A For G7 play... E----B--3--G--2--D--3--A--2--E---- Then move it up to the 7th fret for C7 and the 9th fret for D7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members halfwhole Posted April 30, 2009 Members Share Posted April 30, 2009 ah cool. i was gonna add playing those arpeggios over dom7 chords to my practice schedule. didn't know it had a history, i guess i should check howlin wolf out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gennation Posted May 1, 2009 Members Share Posted May 1, 2009 ah cool. i was gonna add playing those arpeggios over dom7 chords to my practice schedule. didn't know it had a history, i guess i should check howlin wolf out! The cool thing is, he'll slide that form up a whole then back down while still on the G7 chord. So he's not only has the M3, b7, 9, and 5 stacked up over G7 but also hits the b5, R, M3, and 6 over G7 when he slides it up a whole step...then he slides it back down. You can check Stormy Monday out on youtube.com. There's a few versions of him playing it there as well as versions by the Allman Brothers. I should add that you can do that whole-slide thing on the C7 and D7 ad well when playing the blues in G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Firelavasauce Posted May 3, 2009 Members Share Posted May 3, 2009 e minor sounds sad to me where as G Major sounds happy and pleasant, D major sounds majestic, marching and C major sounds clean and new. So, with that said, what do they sound like to you? Oh, and as a rule of thumb, tritones is the kid on the playground that no one likes to hear a lot. I believe it is all about dissonance and consonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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